Post-Game Talk: Boston Bruins v. Buffalo Sabres - 1/31/13 - Part III

[LSCII]

So what happens when the "elite" teams lose their game breaker?

Like everyone else, they suffer. Why is it so hard for some of you fans to actually admit there's a difference between the guys I mentioned and the Bruins players? It's not like I'm saying they suck. In fact I've said multiple times they're really, really good. It's not a knock on Lucic to say he's never scored 40 goals in a season. It's just fact. It's not a knock on Krejci to say that Malkin has a higher ceiling for scoring. It's again, just a fact. What kills me about this place most of the time is that when you objectively (read as not ballwashing a Bruins player) say something, people act like you kicked their dog and called their baby ugly.

 

[Mr. Make-Believe]

See, that's the irony. People assume I'm down on the team. Couldn't be further from the truth. I'm just saying that for the Bruins, the depth is what makes them elite, rather than having elite players. When they start losing guys on any line, it causes problems. The same can be said for every team of course, but the margin for error when you have a game breaker is greater. When you don't have a truly elite scorer and you lose depth, it just gets that much harder to win.

I think it's just coming to a point where that's not the case anymore. I think our top-six, while not the best in the NHL, is still AMONG the best. We back that up with great coaching/goaltending and Zdeno Chara - and all of the sudden we're Cup contenders.

We're missing a piece right now. Having Caron, Hamill, Sauve and Colborne as non-options to replace the fallen depth despite their respective draft positions is hurting us. We don't have the talent to pull up from Providence in an emergency.

 

[LSCII]

I think it's just coming to a point where that's not the case anymore. I think our top-six, while not the best in the NHL, is still AMONG the best. We back that up with great coaching/goaltending and Zdeno Chara - and all of the sudden we're Cup contenders.

We're missing a piece right now. Having Caron, Hamill, Sauve and Colborne as non-options to replace the fallen depth despite their respective draft positions is hurting us. We don't have the talent to pull up from Providence in an emergency.

Horton coming back healthy and Seguin continuing his development are really the keys for this team, IMO. The rest of the guys, you pretty much know what you're going to get. Either way, they are one of the cup favorites. No question.

 

[Artemis]

Like everyone else, they suffer. Why is it so hard for some of you fans to actually admit there's a difference between the guys I mentioned and the Bruins players? It's not like I'm saying they suck. In fact I've said multiple times they're really, really good. It's not a knock on Lucic to say he's never scored 40 goals in a season. It's just fact. It's not a knock on Krejci to say that Malkin has a higher ceiling for scoring. It's again, just a fact. What kills me about this place most of the time is that when you objectively (read as not ballwashing a Bruins player) say something, people act like you kicked their dog and called their baby ugly.

But you didn't say Lucic has never scored 40. You're saying other NHL teams have "elite" players and the Bruins don't, and if the Bruins lose a forward they're screwed. Scoring isn't the end-all of a hockey player (I'd take Lucic over a lot of those "elite" scorers; perhaps you wouldn't), and injuries can hurt any team.

Sure Crosby and Malkin are great players. But last I checked, the Penguins were 4-3 and lost to the Islanders and Maple Leafs by a combined score of 9-3.

And last I checked, I didn't have my head in the sand.

 

[LSCII]

But you didn't say Lucic has never scored 40. You're saying other NHL teams have "elite" players and the Bruins don't, and if the Bruins lose a forward they're screwed. Scoring isn't the end-all of a hockey player (I'd take Lucic over a lot of those "elite" scorers; perhaps you wouldn't), and injuries can hurt any team.

Sure Crosby and Malkin are great players. But last I checked, the Penguins were 4-3 and lost to the Islanders and Maple Leafs by a combined score of 9-3.

And last I checked, I didn't have my head in the sand.

Are you really going to argue about semantics? Go back and read what I said. You're acting like I'm insulting you, which I'm not. The conversation started by someone saying the Bruins have 6 guys who all average 25+ goals (which they don't). That's when I said they have a great top 6 but there are other teams in their conference that have higher ceilings offensively. Again, it's not a matter of opinion. It's fact. Then rather than arguing the truth of the statement about the specific individual players, the guy changed the argument to talk about overall team offense. I never said the Bruins couldn't score offensively as a team, nor is it close to my argument. I just said other team have players with more upside, which is 100 percent accurate. But again, I ask you to show me how what I've said is wrong. When you fold in the context of depth, and the recent injuries the Bruins have and whom they're going to plug into those spots, it certainly will have an impact on how the team fares.

 

[TCL40]

Pens have elite players up front, but their defense sucks (yes they have Letang and Orpik but they have no defensive system and Fleury can steal games when he is on but he can't steal them all).

One thing about the Bruins is that they generally don't have the super flashy players, but they do have several good players and reasonably good depth.

I do think the 3rd line left wing spot to date though is a huge, gaping hole that needs to be fixed. Bourque IMO isn't the piece to fill that hole. I don't even think they need to acquire a big name, just somebody with a bigger body with some shooting skills. A Pouliot like player with a better hockey IQ. If Ryder came cheaper I wouldn't mind Ryder back (Ryder mostly bothered me for the salary compared to production-he was way too expensive for what he provided).

 

[Artemis]

Pens have elite players up front, but their defense sucks (yes they have Letang and Orpik but they have no defensive system and Fleury can steal games when he is on but he can't steal them all).

One thing about the Bruins is that they generally don't have the super flashy players, but they do have several good players and reasonably good depth.

I do think the 3rd line left wing spot to date though is a huge, gaping hole that needs to be fixed. Bourque IMO isn't the piece to fill that hole. I don't even think they need to acquire a big name, just somebody with a bigger body with some shooting skills. A Pouliot like player with a better hockey IQ. If Ryder came cheaper I wouldn't mind Ryder back (Ryder mostly bothered me for the salary compared to production-he was way too expensive for what he provided).

Or possibly a smaller body. A healthy Spooner is tearing up the AHL right now - a goal and two assists tonight. He keeps it up and he might get a shot.

 

[Ladyfan]

Or possibly a smaller body. A healthy Spooner is tearing up the AHL right now - a goal and two assists tonight. He keeps it up and he might get a shot.

I'd like to see Spooner get a shot.

 

[Jean_Jacket41]

The Bruins gave that game away to Buffalo last night with uncharateristic defensive mistakes.

For the most part of the game, the B's were all over Buf with chances left and right. The turning point was when Looch missed that glorious chance that would have make it 4-1 then exploded a facking buf dmen into the board, leading to that 5on3 goal from Vanek after Chara held him for a 2min long two man down. That got the Sabres back in it.

But after Krejci got us back in front with a great goal, Tuukka allowed his weakest goal of the season. The Bruins still got plenty of chances and Bergeron was a little more loft away to make it 5-5 late in the 3rd.

Yes Thornton lost his fight. Yes he's out.

But let's not make the Sabres the team they are not because of all this.

They are not even in the playoffs right now despite winning that game and Vanek scoring 15pts+leading the league.

Meanwhile, we have only 1 loss, in 2nd place in the conference and only 1pt back of TB.

Give me the Sabres any day in a best of 7 series. That would be a nice workout for the next round...

 

[Gonzothe7thDman]

Are you really going to argue about semantics? Go back and read what I said. You're acting like I'm insulting you, which I'm not. The conversation started by someone saying the Bruins have 6 guys who all average 25+ goals (which they don't). That's when I said they have a great top 6 but there are other teams in their conference that have higher ceilings offensively. Again, it's not a matter of opinion. It's fact. Then rather than arguing the truth of the statement about the specific individual players, the guy changed the argument to talk about overall team offense. I never said the Bruins couldn't score offensively as a team, nor is it close to my argument. I just said other team have players with more upside, which is 100 percent accurate. But again, I ask you to show me how what I've said is wrong. When you fold in the context of depth, and the recent injuries the Bruins have and whom they're going to plug into those spots, it certainly will have an impact on how the team fares.

I agree with LSC squared. Therefore he isn't wrong.

 

[DoubleAAAA]

So how about this: Instead of trying to find better bottom 6 players on other teams, why not look at the top teams in their conference and the league, and see how their top 6 stack up against the Bruins. I'd bet the difference between talent up there is far greater than the difference of talent between the B's bottom 6 and those teams.
.

This is exactly what I did.

If you have a better measure of talent than on ice production, I'd be glad to see it.

 

[westernhome]

I am still worried

the fact that Scott gestured the Bruins bench with "shhhhhhhh" after the fight and the Bruins had a very unphysical comeback to that the rest of the game really still bothers me and I've had a day to think about it still

I think seeing their team leader Shawn go down, and then a real lack of team response to it was a psychological chink in the armor that might persist

we are not going to ever win a stanley cup with a Canucks style of finesse (neither will the Canucks)

I am worried...

 

[LouJersey]

I am still worried

the fact that Scott gestured the Bruins bench with "shhhhhhhh" after the fight and the Bruins had a very unphysical comeback to that the rest of the game really still bothers me and I've had a day to think about it still

I think seeing their team leader Shawn go down, and then a real lack of team response to it was a psychological chink in the armor that might persist

we are not going to ever win a stanley cup with a Canucks style of finesse (neither will the Canucks)

I am worried...

Don't worry. If the Bruins slack off physically Chia will go out and fix it no matter what the experts here say.

 

[LouJersey]

This is exactly what I did.

If you have a better measure of talent than on ice production, I'd be glad to see it.

This is the same team that scored 1 goal in 4 playoff games last year. With Horton they are fine. Without injury they are fine. One injury they go from very good to very mediocre. More jeckyl and hyde then any other good team in the league IMO.

 

[Artemis]

I am still worried

the fact that Scott gestured the Bruins bench with "shhhhhhhh" after the fight and the Bruins had a very unphysical comeback to that the rest of the game really still bothers me and I've had a day to think about it still

I think seeing their team leader Shawn go down, and then a real lack of team response to it was a psychological chink in the armor that might persist

we are not going to ever win a stanley cup with a Canucks style of finesse (neither will the Canucks)

I am worried...

Please tell me you're kidding. Please.

John Scott has psychologically scarred the Bruins? I mean, really? You're kidding.

 

[LouJersey]

Please tell me you're kidding. Please.

John Scott has psychologically scarred the Bruins? I mean, really? You're kidding.

I don't think scarred is the right word. Couple questions though. One- don't you think it was very un Bruinlike that not one guy went near him after that? Two- if Scott did that to Lucic or Chara do you think Shawn would have tried to even the score?

 

[DoubleAAAA]

This is the same team that scored 1 goal in 4 playoff games last year. With Horton they are fine. Without injury they are fine. One injury they go from very good to very mediocre. More jeckyl and hyde then any other good team in the league IMO.

And yet, excluding Horton, the production of the top 6 still ranked in the top 3 league wide. Horton is certainly valuable, but the notion that this team is any more susceptible to failure due to injury than any other team in the league is simply a myth. Especially when those injuries are to Shawn Thornton and Danny frickin Paille.

The team struggled as a whole last year for periods (including the playoffs where they faced a team on defensive lockdown and a hot goalie), they also were 3-7 to start the year with everyone (including Horton) in the lineup. Teams go through fits and spurts, it happens.

 

[DoubleAAAA]

Please tell me you're kidding. Please.

John Scott has psychologically scarred the Bruins? I mean, really? You're kidding.

John Scott has singlehandedly destroyed the Bruins and any hope of future success the team may have.

 

[Over the volcano]

Not worried about boston losing their physical game, they have plenty of guys willing and able to step up physically to create a "spark" (Marchand, McQuaid, CHara, Luic, Boychuck, Ference, Seidenberg, Campbell, Paille, Hoton). I am worried, like Colt's thread, about the future of Thornton. We have been totally spoiled by what he brings to the ice, easily the most effective enforcer/glue player in the league. He will not last forever and I'd hate to go back to the rotating door policy of nutjobs sideshows and spare parts before he came on board (Oliwa- McCarthy- Doull- Mhyers- Orr- Brookbank- Reich).

 

[Central Scrutinizer]

Please tell me you're kidding. Please.

John Scott has psychologically scarred the Bruins? I mean, really? You're kidding.

I think so... Look what "big John scott" did to their teammate. Just because a player is used to fighting and used to the aggressive nature of the game,doesn't mean they don't question themselves from time to time.

Scott is not just a strong human, he is huge and he can hurt. And his sole purpose of being on the ice is to hurt. I am sure if that was Foligno that dropped Thornton the Bruins would have dealt with it. Somebody would have paid the price. And not just Tuukka's GAA.

Scott is a different animal.
I was surprised that Ott basically was tame all game. Next two are in Buffalo,Ott and Kaleta will be running wild,Scott will be there to let them roam. How will the Bruins react?

 

[Central Scrutinizer]

Not worried about boston losing their physical game, they have plenty of guys willing and able to step up physically to create a "spark" (Marchand, McQuaid, CHara, Luic, Boychuck, Ference, Seidenberg, Campbell, Paille, Hoton). I am worried, like Colt's thread, about the future of Thornton. We have been totally spoiled by what he brings to the ice, easily the most effective enforcer/glue player in the league. He will not last forever and I'd hate to go back to the rotating door policy of nutjobs sideshows and spare parts before he came on board (Oliwa- McCarthy- Doull- Mhyers- Orr- Brookbank- Reich).

nazarov

 

[Over the volcano]

nazarov

I always had sympothy for Nazarov. Always felt he was sort of forced into the goon role to stay in the league, he obviously didn't have his heart in it and got **** from fans all the time for going through the motions. He was drafted pretty high wasn't he?

 

[Over the volcano]

I think so... Look what "big John scott" did to their teammate. Just because a player is used to fighting and used to the aggressive nature of the game,doesn't mean they don't question themselves from time to time.

Scott is not just a strong human, he is huge and he can hurt. And his sole purpose of being on the ice is to hurt. I am sure if that was Foligno that dropped Thornton the Bruins would have dealt with it. Somebody would have paid the price. And not just Tuukka's GAA.

Scott is a different animal.
I was surprised that Ott basically was tame all game. Next two are in Buffalo,Ott and Kaleta will be running wild,Scott will be there to let them roam. How will the Bruins react?

McQuaid will try to get Ott-Kaleta-Foligno to go all night. Ott will run from everyone until he find's someone small enough- Campbell? Ference? Lucic will lay the body and push everyone around with no one really willing to get in his face. Scott will be out there but wont force anyone to go- might come out of a scrum w/Chara and we'll get to see the tallest fight in history. They'll fall to the ice everyone will cheer and life will go on.

 

[Central Scrutinizer]

I always had sympothy for Nazarov. Always felt he was sort of forced into the goon role to stay in the league, he obviously didn't have his heart in it and got **** from fans all the time for going through the motions. He was drafted pretty high wasn't he?

Not an easy role that's for sure.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

I think so... Look what "big John scott" did to their teammate. Just because a player is used to fighting and used to the aggressive nature of the game,doesn't mean they don't question themselves from time to time.

Scott is not just a strong human, he is huge and he can hurt. And his sole purpose of being on the ice is to hurt. I am sure if that was Foligno that dropped Thornton the Bruins would have dealt with it. Somebody would have paid the price. And not just Tuukka's GAA.

Scott is a different animal.
I was surprised that Ott basically was tame all game. Next two are in Buffalo,Ott and Kaleta will be running wild,Scott will be there to let them roam. How will the Bruins react?

Excellent point.

Some fans seem to think these players are mechanical toys who perform for their pleasure. These guys have families and real concerns about their own careers. Watching their premier fighter get pounded into the ice without getting off a punch and not able to return certainly puts a little trepidation in the thought process.