Bobrovsky first 31 games - .897 sv% 3.29 GAA

[Machinehead]

the entire history of Stanley Cup wins was led by average goaltending ??? Lmaoooo now I’ve heard it all lamooo

Osgood has three.
Vernon has two.
Fuhr has five of them and his career goals against was actually above expected (which is shockingly bad).

11 goaltenders have won the Vezina since the lockout. They have two Stanley Cup rings between them.

Matt Murray, Cam Ward and Corey Crawford have all played at an elite level whether they are on an ELC is irrelevant. Niemi I’ll give you that one and Osgood is an anomaly considering the amount of hall of famers he had in front of him. The general norm is that a team needs a elite goaltending to win the cup whether that be a big UFA signing or a goalie on an ELC. The term elite being defined as a much higher statistical performance than those being compared against.

Murray and Ward never played at an elite level. Ward never even considered it.

They had hot playoff runs. Which average goalies do from time to time which is why average goalies win the Cup.

 

[Machinehead]

Let's extend it to Vezina finalists.

There's been 23 different finalists since the lockout. They've combined for four Stanley Cups and Quick has half of them.

That's 4/14 seasons the Cup was won by a goalie who's EVER been a Vezina finalist.

Average goalies win Stanley Cups.

 

[Keeptdos]

Wayne Gretzski

(BTW - nice subtle jab at Olef Tverdovski, but I could barely even name another Russian who's name ends with '-ski').

Oh I'll help you with Korpikoski, Rafalski, Visnovski, Greztski, Jankowski, Werenski, Wolski, Pavelski, Goligoski... Great time for Russian hockey.

 

[Machinehead]

Although Crawford was robbed of a Vezina nomination, I'll give you that.

 

[IceManCat]

Osgood has three.
Vernon has two.
Fuhr has five of them and his career goals against was actually above expected (which is shockingly bad).

11 goaltenders have won the Vezina since the lockout. They have two Stanley Cup rings between them.

Murray and Ward never played at an elite level. Ward never even considered it.

They had hot playoff runs. Which average goalies do from time to time which is why average goalies win the Cup.

Matt Murray is an elite goalie and played at an elite level for years. Especially during the cup runs. Cam Ward was a top goaltender and top prospect he was the top goalie prospect along with Keri Lehtonen back in 2005. A top prospect who then went in to become an elite goaltender had it not been for injuries he would have continued his top tier trajectory.

Again Chris Osgood player in front of multiple Norris winners and hall of game forwards and defensman. Not a single person would dispute the fact that the Red Wings were one of the greatest teams ever assembled from the 90’s into the 2000’s.

Grant Fuhr was indeed an elite goalie during his time of winning cups. Who was a better goalie than Grant Fuhr during the cup runs? He won a Vezina in 87 lol...

you are making a terrible argument with the exception of Chris Osgood and for obvious reasons he is an exception, cup winning teams have gotten elite goaltending

 

[IceManCat]

Let's extend it to Vezina finalists.

There's been 23 different finalists since the lockout. They've combined for four Stanley Cups and Quick has half of them.

That's 4/14 seasons the Cup was won by a goalie who's EVER been a Vezina finalist.

Average goalies win Stanley Cups.

A vezina finalist doesn’t encompass all of a elite goaltending does it ? So after the vezina winner does this mean there are no more elite goalies? Is McDavid the only elite forward? Is Karlsson the only elite defenseman? Can more than one player be considered elite at a position?

 

[Machinehead]

Matt Murray is an elite goalie and played at an elite level for years. Especially during the cup runs. Cam Ward was a top goaltender and top prospect he was the top goalie prospect along with Keri Lehtonen back in 2005. A top prospect who then went in to become an elite goaltender had it not been for injuries he would have continued his top tier trajectory.

Again Chris Osgood player in front of multiple Norris winners and hall of game forwards and defensman. Not a single person would dispute the fact that the Red Wings were one of the greatest teams ever assembled from the 90’s into the 2000’s.

Grant Fuhr was indeed an elite goalie during his time of winning cups. Who was a better goalie than Grant Fuhr during the cup runs?

you are making a terrible argument with the exception of Chris Osgood and for obvious reasons he is an exception, cup winning teams have gotten elite goaltending

According to his Goals Saved Above Average, pretty much everyone lol

 

[Machinehead]

A vezina finalist doesn’t encompass all of a elite goaltending does it ? So after the vezina winner does this mean there are no more elite goalies? Is McDavid the only elite forward? Is Karlsson the only elite defenseman? Can more than one player be considered elite at a position?

The Vezina bounces around a lot more than the other awards do, and there's a much, much shorter field being there's only 31 starting goaltenders.

You can't call yourself an elite goalie if you've never, ever been a Vezina finalist, except Crawford.

 

[IceManCat]

According to his Goals Saved Above Average, pretty much everyone lol

he won the Vezina was a six time all star and named as one of the 100 greatest players to ever play the game . But yeah he’s average... what a joke of an argument you have . It’s clear you aren’t even a real hockey fan considering you think Grant Fuhr was average you have zero argument here besides Chris Osgood and we all know that story ..

 

[Machinehead]

It doesn't have to be a Vezina nomination either.

Show me an elite goalie, by any measure, that's raking in Cup rings.

Lundqvist doesn't have one. Rask doesn't have one (as a starter). Rinne, Bobrovsky, Gibson, Bishop, Vaslilevskiy, Price.

For f***s sake I just named probably 8 of the consensus top 10 goalies and none of them have a Stanley Cup.

 

[IceManCat]

The Vezina bounces around a lot more than the other awards do, and there's a much, much shorter field being there's only 31 starting goaltenders.

You can't call yourself an elite goalie if you've never, ever been a Vezina finalist, except Crawford.

So when Brodeur , Hasek and Roy were all playing together in the 90’s only one of them was elite at a given time? This means the other two because they weren’t the winner must mean that they weren’t elite that year?

 

[Machinehead]

So when Brodeur , Hasek and Roy were all playing together in the 90’s only one of them was elite at a given time? This means the other two because they weren’t the winner must mean that they weren’t elite that year?

They were all finalists many times.

 

[IceManCat]

It doesn't have to be a Vezina nomination either.

Show me an elite goalie, by any measure, that's raking in Cup rings.

Lundqvist doesn't have one. Rask doesn't have one (as a starter). Rinne, Bobrovsky, Gibson, Bishop, Vaslilevskiy, Price.

For ****s sake I just named probably 8 of the consensus top 10 goalies and none of them have a Stanley Cup.

Gee maybe because hockey is a team sport and perhaps those teams weren’t skilled enough to make it all the way to the final ? Could it be that ?maybe it could !

 

[Machinehead]

he won the Vezina was a six time all star and named as one of the 100 greatest players to ever play the game . But yeah he’s average... what a joke of an argument you have . It’s clear you aren’t even a real hockey fan considering you think Grant Fuhr was average you have zero argument here besides Chris Osgood and we all know that story ..

Ok, to be fair to Fuhr his career averages were tanked late in his career. But even in the first 11 seasons of his career, he only saved 10+ goals in five seasons. An elite goalie saves 20+ goals in a season without blinking.

 

[Machinehead]

Gee maybe because hockey is a team sport and perhaps those teams weren’t skilled enough to make it all the way to the final ? Could it be that ?maybe it could !

Approaching the point.

 

[Machinehead]

"Matt Murray played at an elite level for years"

He's played 166 games. He hasn't been around for years!

 

[IceManCat]

They were all finalists many times.

Okay so I did the research in the past 15 years.

With the exception of the Penguins and Matt Murray. As well as the Blues and Binnigton. Every Stanley Cup winning goalie has received a Vezina finalist nomination either in the year they won the cup or at some point in their career. Considering only a handful of goalies get nominated for the vezina this means that Stanley Cup winning teams have elite goaltending on their roster.

Source:
NHL Stanley Cup Winners | Hockey-Reference.com

VEZINA TROPHY VOTING HISTORY: YEAR-BY-YEAR

 

[IceManCat]

"Matt Murray played at an elite level for years"

He's played 166 games. He hasn't been around for years!

Well let’s see years is plural as in more than one. Murray has two Stanley cup wins to his name. There he has played at an elite level for years.... it’s not hard buddy just give in already

 

[IceManCat]

Ok, to be fair to Fuhr his career averages were tanked late in his career. But even in the first 11 seasons of his career, he only saved 10+ goals in five seasons. An elite goalie saves 20+ goals in a season without blinking.

You do understand he played in the 80’s right ??? Let me guess you want him to allow 2 goals per night during the 80’s lol ... you don’t have a clue what you are talking about

 

[Beville]

Give him time to learn the ropes and get used to his players man.

if he’s still like this at the midway point then maybe be concerned but not now

 

[Machinehead]

Okay so I did the research in the past 15 years.

With the exception of the Penguins and Matt Murray. As well as the Blues and Binnigton. Every Stanley Cup winning goalie has received a Vezina finalist nomination either in the year they won the cup or at some point in their career. Considering only a handful of goalies get nominated for the vezina this means that Stanley Cup winning teams have elite goaltending on their roster.

Source:
NHL Stanley Cup Winners | Hockey-Reference.com

VEZINA TROPHY VOTING HISTORY: YEAR-BY-YEAR

Not Crawford.

And yeah, Osgood was nominated 12 years before his most recent up win if you wanna count that for some reason.

Let's look at a more objective measure. Here's the save percentage rank of every Cup winner since 07-08:

13th
14th
24th
1st
3rd
3rd
2nd
2nd
2nd
10th
23rd
17th
13th

As we can see, it has happened. But it's happened more times with average goaltending than elite goaltending.

Hell, there's a few teams here with straight up bad goaltending.

 

[IceManCat]

Give him time to learn the ropes and get used to his players man.

if he’s still like this at the midway point then maybe be concerned but not now

The stat watchers may think he is struggling. If they would actually watch the games they would see he has been incredible so far. Trust me we know bad goaltending, Bobrovsky has been incredible to start the year. The rest of the team not so much.

 

[Machinehead]

You do understand he played in the 80’s right ??? Let me guess you want him to allow 2 goals per night during the 80’s lol ... you don’t have a clue what you are talking about

It's 2019. We've had era adjusted stats for years.

EDMONTON OILERS GOALTENDING HISTORY: YEAR-BY-YEAR

In most seasons, Andy Moog saved more goals (look at GD and Z-SC)

 

[IceManCat]

Not Crawford.

And yeah, Osgood was nominated 12 years before his most recent up win if you wanna count that for some reason.

Let's look at a more objective measure. Here's the save percentage rank of every Cup winner since 07-08:

13th
14th
24th
1st
3rd
3rd
2nd
2nd
2nd
10th
23rd
17th
13th

As we can see, it has happened. But it's happened more times with average goaltending than elite goaltending.

Hell, there's a few teams here with straight up bad goaltending.

Yes Crawford he has three nominations.

Can you tell me where you got these stats from

 

[IceManCat]

It's 2019. We've had era adjusted stats for years.

EDMONTON OILERS GOALTENDING HISTORY: YEAR-BY-YEAR

In most seasons, Andy Moog saved more goals (look at GD and Z-SC)

What does that have to do with anything ?