Bobby Burgers Interview Rishaug/TSN 1260

[bobbythebrain]

This discussion between you and I was about MacT and how he has been able to survive despite the fact the team has been bad and others have been fired because of it.
You said that maybe MacT was in charge of the farm team and as such he was being kept on because of the good job he has done.

I replied that he has and is doing Pro scouting for the big team. This has been the reality for years now.
His involvement is clearly with the big team...that is perfectly clear.

So I am just asking....regarding MacT's longevity....how can you ignore MacT's obvious involvement with the big team?
How is it that he has been able to evade accountability without being protected by Katz?

I just want to know how you can rationalize what has happened for years now.

Really.? Bobby Nick just told us that MacT was a big part of what's going on in the farm and shut down OBC talk

Stauff just told us Chia didn't listen to "former" GM's

 

[MaxR11]

I was thinking the same thing when I heard Gregor say that Chiarelli had isolated himself. My first thought was I dont blame him a bit for attempting to quiet some voices who were clearly giving him bogus advice. My second thought was just how dysfunctional this organization is and I wondered if Chia had the authority to make any changes he wanted.

I am not at all defending Chia but did he isolate himself because the trust level just wasnt there for people like MacT. Green and Howsen? All the people he inherited?
Makes sense.

The more information that comes out the more it underscores just how deeply dysfunctional this organization is.
In any event...I need to find some hope here. Hopefully time delivers that.

ya, i agree but there has been a lot of info that has been coming out in the last 10 years or more about this org that all points to a terrible culture. just the way they handle players (sheldon etc), how they go about doing the things they do. it's an absolutely dysfunctional culture. terrible communication, terrible leadership, no accountability for certain groups (obc and their buds), flat out laziness and arrogance and stuck in old ways that don't work any more, lack of attention to details (sports science and using analytics to compliment eye test)... so many many many things that they do here that is subpar and wrong.

like i said, it all starts at the top with katz. allowing incompetence of the obc to thrive here still this rotten culture trickles through all departments down to the players. the more we hear, the more everyone should realize there has been a serious issue with organizational culture that has led to the underwhelming team we have.

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

This discussion between you and I was about MacT and how he has been able to survive despite the fact the team has been bad and others have been fired because of it.
You said that maybe MacT was in charge of the farm team and as such he was being kept on because of the good job he has done.

I replied that he has and is doing Pro scouting for the big team. This has been the reality for years now.
His involvement is clearly with the big team...that is perfectly clear.

So I am just asking....regarding MacT's longevity....how can you ignore MacT's obvious involvement with the big team?
How is it that he has been able to evade accountability without being protected by Katz?

I just want to know how you can rationalize what has happened for years now.

MacTavish was quoted on Hometown Hockey the Oilers ownership best attribute. His answer was “Loilty”. That in of itself is pretty telling.

MacTavish has been heavily involved with pro and some amateur scouting for years since his newly invented position was set up. Pro scouting has led us in part to where we are today. He bears some responsibility for today’s on ice product.

Gregor believes 2 of MacTavish Howson and Sutter are eventually let go. I hope it’s all 3. But I can see Katz stepping in and shielding MacT. Loilty after all is more than skin deep.

 

[MaxR11]

That's not how I took it all.

He already said Chia had full autonomy. So have others. He admitted he wasn't part of the day to day .

He just said that when you hire a GM, you give them control. Despite popular opinion, that's how most GM's are left to operate. GM's don't take these jobs to be scrutinized at every decision or influenced all the time GM's hire their own ppl and work as their own unit

Him saying there will be more eyeballs on future moves is nothing but a fail safe for utterly stupid decisions...which is a good thing

Again, he totally admitted that a new GM gets total control. That seemed more like a blanket statement to how GM's operate around the league, but they are not going 100% that route this time

He followed that up by saying he is only gonna hire the right GM. This screams he is getting a reputable person, but even the new reputable GM will have to clear a few moves. Again, which is a good thing

i understand your take and actually that's what i thought at first "glance"... but i guess i just started thinking more and knowing the gong show that is the oilers, started thinking of how what he said can maybe become a negative (micromanaging). we'll see. i'm not going to say it's for sure going to be bad but was just anticipating the worst.... because this org never seems to fail to deliver the worst.

 

[guymez]

Really.? Bobby Nick just told us that MacT was a big part of what's going on in the farm

Bobby Nics says a lot of stuff. I am not sure he is a bastion of truth regarding the inner workings of Oiler Management. Protecting the brand is priority 1...I am sure you understand that.

The reality...
MacT has been in the stands at Pro games for years now. Its been reported on an ongoing basis by numerous reporters since 2015/16. I have seen him at Games in Calgary myself.

Yet you willfully choose to disregard that.

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

Really.? Bobby Nick just told us that MacT was a big part of what's going on in the farm and shut down OBC talk

Stauff just told us Chia didn't listen to "former" GM's

MacTs name has been printed for years on the scouting lists around the league for other teams buildings. It used to state that he was involved in pro scouting as one of his duties on the website until they updated the website after Chias firing to be as vague as possible about his day to day role.

 

[MaxR11]

MacTavish was quoted on Hometown Hockey the Oilers ownership best attribute. His answer was “Loilty”. That in of itself is pretty telling.

MacTavish has been heavily involved with pro and some amateur scouting for years since his newly invented position was set up. Pro scouting has led us in part to where we are today. He bears some responsibility for today’s on ice product.

Gregor believes 2 of MacTavish Howson and Sutter are eventually let go. I hope it’s all 3. But I can see Katz stepping in and shielding MacT. Loilty after all is more than skin deep.

loyalty is almost always a good thing... except in this case. it might be the thing that's stagnating and holding this org back ironically.

 

[CupofOil]

I started balding in 2008. Things just got worse.

Same here around that time and I was only in my late 20s when it started happening then shaved it down to a zero not too long ago and get some compliments now. Point being, shave it down if there isn't much there anymore, you'll feel a whole lot better about yourself especially if you have the right shaped head to do it and are in good shape like I luckily am. It took me a while to get to that point but I'm sure glad I did.

Sorry for the off topic. You blow Bobby Nicks.
Seriously though, I don't listen to anything he or anybody in the Oilers organization says anymore as it's either fluff or outright lies. They will speak with their actions, actions which I'm sure will infuriate all of us and millions of Oiler fans around the globe.

 

[guymez]

MacTavish was quoted on Hometown Hockey the Oilers ownership best attribute. His answer was “Loilty”. That in of itself is pretty telling.

MacTavish has been heavily involved with pro and some amateur scouting for years since his newly invented position was set up. Pro scouting has led us in part to where we are today. He bears some responsibility for today’s on ice product.

Gregor believes 2 of MacTavish Howson and Sutter are eventually let go. I hope it’s all 3. But I can see Katz stepping in and shielding MacT. Loilty after all is more than skin deep.

MacT is clearly involved with the big team. He is also clearly a friend of the owner.
This is common knowledge.

I hope Gregor is right and I dont want these people fired just because I am pissed off either.
I want this team to commit to holding everybody in hockey Ops accountable for the teams failures not just the men that dont have a connection to the owner.
I want Katz to show the team and the fans that winning is the top priority.

 

[guymez]

MacTs name has been printed for years on the scouting lists around the league for other teams buildings. It used to state that he was involved in pro scouting as one of his duties on the website until they updated the website after Chias firing to be as vague as possible about his day to day role.

I saw that too...they did indeed edit the site.

Just more evidence that Katz is trying to obscure things from the fans. Otherwise why make those changes.

 

[FlameChampion]

I was thinking the same thing when I heard Gregor say that Chiarelli had isolated himself. My first thought was I dont blame him a bit for attempting to quiet some voices who were clearly giving him bogus advice. My second thought was just how dysfunctional this organization is and I wondered if Chia had the authority to make any changes he wanted.

I am not at all defending Chia but did he isolate himself because the trust level just wasnt there for people like MacT. Green and Howsen? All the people he inherited?
Makes sense.

The more information that comes out the more it underscores just how deeply dysfunctional this organization is.
In any event...I need to find some hope here. Hopefully time delivers that.

At the end of the day the organization looks like a mess.

Seems like there is ample evidence that shows that Chiarelli had isolated himself and wasnt listening to much of the staff. Not really defending him either but if doesnt trust MacT, Green, Howson etc you cant really blame him for not listening to them. I personally dont believe Nicholson when he says that Chiarelli left the previous staff in place because of his choice. Outside of K.Gretzky, did he hire anyone in upper management? I also do believe that the internal organization was pushing for trades like Reinhart. The day that trade happened, Chiarelli looked uncomfortable making that trade. I am also not convinced it was his idea to trade Hall, but we will never really know about that one.

Regardless of what happened, Chiarelli did a poor job here. He hired McLellan, and it was obvious for a considerable amount of time, they were never on the same page. If there was a lot of interference from the OBC, the two of them could of banded together. Also my impression from watching Chiarelli in interviews, is the guy simply didnt have a pulse on this team. He never seem invested in the team, never seemed passionate about it. The results speak for themselves.

We will never know who or how much individual people are to blame as fans looking in from the outside. The more information that comes out, it just seems more and more obvious that the entire management team needs to be purged or some reasoning/accountability on why some people have been left. The new GM needs to put his staff in place using a proper process. I guess we will see.

 

[guymez]

At the end of the day the organization looks like a mess.

Seems like there is ample evidence that shows that Chiarelli had isolated himself and wasnt listening to much of the staff. Not really defending him either but if doesnt trust MacT, Green, Howson etc you cant really blame him for not listening to them. I personally dont believe Nicholson when he says that Chiarelli left the previous staff in place because of his choice. Outside of K.Gretzky, did he hire anyone in upper management? I also do believe that the internal organization was pushing for trades like Reinhart. The day that trade happened, Chiarelli looked uncomfortable making that trade. I am also not convinced it was his idea to trade Hall, but we will never really know about that one.

Regardless of what happened, Chiarelli did a poor job here. He hired McLellan, and it was obvious for a considerable amount of time, they were never on the same page. If there was a lot of interference from the OBC, the two of them could of banded together. Also my impression from watching Chiarelli in interviews, is the guy simply didnt have a pulse on this team. He never seem invested in the team, never seemed passionate about it. The results speak for themselves.

We will never know who or how much individual people are to blame as fans looking in from the outside. The more information that comes out, it just seems more and more obvious that the entire management team needs to be purged or some reasoning/accountability on why some people have been left. The new GM needs to put his staff in place using a proper process. I guess we will see.

Good post. ..solid points.
I especially agree with the bolded.

 

[guymez]

Regarding Bobby Nics...is he really qualified to be running hockey Ops?
Wasnt his position at Hockey Canada more of an Administrative Management role?

 

[CupofOil]

Blaming Lowe for Nicholson's mistakes is kind of silly though. The guy was a good candidate and like...99% of us were fine with the hiring. He messed up.

His only credentials was assembling Team Canada (big whoop). There were some of us who were questioning his credentials from Day 1 saying that it can't be that hard to put together a Gold Medal winning roster picking from a pool of the best players on the planet. I don't know if the Nicholson hire thread got removed with the board change but there were a few vocal skeptics, present company included.

I think most people were fine with his hiring because it was something different but nobody actually knew what he brought because he never ran an NHL team before. The inexperience is shining through in spades in so many respects.
Honestly, I don't even know if I blame him that much. When it boils down to it, he's just another Katz crony/puppet. Nicholson will leave and another puppet will be brought in. This will only change when Katz sells the team or dies.

Ok, here's the Nicholson hire thread. I'm going to give it a read now and be interested to see what the reactions were...

Confirmed with Link: - Nicholson appointed CEO of Oilers, incl. supervising hockey operations (Presser@1PM)

Good ole Speedyturtle (Gazzola) posting about more changes coming in that thread, changes that never came sadly not the changes we wanted. The good old days right after McLottery when there was actually some hope.

 

[bobbythebrain]

Regarding Bobby Nics...is he really qualified to be running hockey Ops?
Wasnt his position at Hockey Canada more of an Administrative Management role?

Not entirely sure. But an ousider came on here an made a good post how well he was respected around the league and what he has done

I have no probs letting him off w/ a do-over based on his connections and respect

Countless other execs have had do-overs w/ GM's. He should be no different imo and should get atleast 1

Aside from the Toby fiasco, which I get what he was "trying" to say, he seems pretty transparent. The Toby thing infact I don't see so much as a flaw and more of a guy trying to communicate some truths, but ya, he f***** that up royally

 

[guymez]

Not entirely sure. But an ousider came on here an made a good post how well he was respected around the league and what he has done

I have no probs letting him off w/ a do-over based on his connections and respect

Countless other execs have had do-overs w/ GM's. He should be no different imo and should get atleast 1

Aside from the Toby fiasco, which I get what he was "trying" to say, he seems pretty transparent. The Toby thing infact I don't see so much as a flaw and more of a guy trying to communicate some truths

Do overs are fine....no issue with that. Mistakes happen.
I am just wondering aloud if Bobby is actually qualified to be running hockey Ops.

 

[oobga]

Do overs are fine....no issue with that. Mistakes happen.
I am just wondering aloud if Bobby is actually qualified to be running hockey Ops.

Probably wasn't a month ago, but he's working tirelessly to try and build a resume right now

 

[OilerTitanFan]

Really.? Bobby Nick just told us that MacT was a big part of what's going on in the farm and shut down OBC talk

Stauff just told us Chia didn't listen to "former" GM's

I would agree with both. Why would Chia listen to the OBC. The guy is full of himself and thinks he knows better. Just look at all those acquisitions. Not sure why 80% of the people still talks like Lowe and MacT are running the team.

Just look at all those old bruins connection. Spooner, Cave, Lucic. Add to that a bunch of eastern conference players brought in, eg wideman, Garrison, etc....

This smells like Chia all the way.

If MacT was the gm from the day we got McD, I bet you there wouldn't be Larson. Pouliot and Hendricks would still be oilers now on the 4th line. Hall and Eberle will be labelled as soft 3rd liners. It might be possible that MacT may have swung at Ryan Mcdonaugh and Sather might make a deal if we gave up Hall and a 2nd. This team will have a good pk. PP would still suck. Mcdonaugh would have demanded a trade. We would be running Nurse and Klefbom as our first pairing. We'd be a fringe playoff team holding onto a wild card spot every year. That Reinhart trade may not have happened. We probably pick up Aho and Chabot. Both busting in the minors and by now Aho and a 1st would be traded for some junk like Jake Muzzin to make that playoff push. Chabot would be behind Caleb Jones in any call ups.

 

[ThePhoenixx]

lol at the OBC accounts showing up.

 

[Tyrolean]

Delete

 

[Kolja]

He really strike me as sub par smart. I'd give a better and more confident interview than him, pathetic.

"you know what, that's a really good question Jason"

 

[frag2]

lol at the OBC accounts showing up.

Did some stuff get deleted last night?

 

[Aerchon]

Couple things.

While the Oilers organization is obviously a mess basic logic says it's being blown out of proportion due to missing yet another playoffs.

Second there is no "proof" about anything.

I think anyone trying to blame/scapegoat Chiarelli for this mess is ignoring the full history of suckage as well as the lone bright spot (2016-2017) being largely due to Chiarelli.

Chiarelli ultimately sucked and had to be fired. But anyone being unbiased has to realize that the Oilers current situation goes far beyond him.

Lowe and Mac T have to go. Lowe imo is the embodiment of the Oilers failures over the last 12 years. Firing Lowe would be the bare minimum starting point for the organization to get serious about winning. Then MacT then Howson, then Green, then Nicholson, then Wayne Gretzky, then Hitchcock... imo the only guys that has any success in this organization is Keith Gretzky and Woodcroft for the ahl.

Start with those 2 around scouting and the ahl and fire everyone else.

 

[Mickelsnitz]

lol at the OBC accounts showing up.

Pretty obvious, and BB the B is for sure Stauffer. Or Stauffer is his hero.

 

[The Panther]

It's become pretty clear now that the Oilers' organization is the equivalent of a corporation wherein executive and lesser managers are all busy running around doing whatever the memo from the boss says to do in order to protect their paychecks and retirement plans, which in their current positions are far more attractive than what they would justifiably be at any other company on earth that paid and promoted according to actual job performance and ability. The boss himself, meanwhile, is filthy rich and spends his time elsewhere (in Katz's case, Palm Springs, where there are many cocktail waitresses), having no real knowledge of what's going on and also not needing to care enough about money to ensure his corporation is sound.

Nicholson is typical of the executives in the Oiler corporation. He's not an idiot. He probably knows that the entire organization is inherently corrupted by top-down incompetence, but he also knows that his paycheck is better than he could get anywhere else. All the guy has to do is oversee some bumbling fools and deliver one or two press conferences a year (sometimes less) that a well-trained parrot could easily do, full of vague rhetoric and platitudes. That's all he has to do and he gets a lot of money. Same with Lowe, MacTavish, Howson, Green...

If I were any of them, I would keep cashing my paychecks also. I can't blame them for taking the money and doing the bare minimum that the boss demands.

The essential problem is Katz.