You're right. The habs were a first place team last year and this year it's Subban holding the team back from returning to the top of the standings. Let's hope Therrien keeps at what he's doing, the team is doing fabulous.
News Article: Bob McKenzie: Link Between Subban's Usage and Contract Negotiations (UPDATE OP)?
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You're right. The habs were a first place team last year and this year it's Subban holding the team back from returning to the top of the standings. Let's hope Therrien keeps at what he's doing, the team is doing fabulous.
What does Subban have to do with anything?
The team is struggling because a pile of the forwards are not producing, Pacioretty Eller DD and Briere are all struggling with Briere being injured.
We started playing poorly before the playoffs. We were 4-6 since our last ten games. The only guy we lost in that stretch was Emelin and if we're really a good team, then losing a 4th Dman should not affect you that much.
We allowed more than 5-7 goals on 4 different occasions during that stretch.
We were not as bad as that stretch nor we were as good as our record indicated. We are what we are seeing today.
And sometimes it's true. Sometimes it's the coach's fault, sometimes no.
I don't think it was Martin's fault we were a mediocre team over his tenure.
I think Therrien is doing a decent job. He's got us where I thought we'd be.
And yes, we overachieved last year, we are not a top eastern team.
Agreed...furthermore, if that's the way MT feels
Then why doesn't he just scrap the Markov/Subban duo all together and just pair Markov with either Diaz or Bouillon? If he's that concerned about Subban's defensive play, why wait until the game is tied or up one goal to then start playing it safe?
If Subban is that much a defensive liability (a HUGE misnomer btw, neither the naked eye nor advance stats support this 'theory' yet fans, media, keep bestowing this title upon him without any merit) then why not just stick him on the 3rd pairing with Murray and restrict his ES time and just use him on the PP?
It just doesn't make much sense...
Blind Gardien
nexus of the crisis
It's not a 1 game issue. The STL game certainly did seem to accentuate things. But it has been going on for a month. Subban not getting PK time. Getting more than his fair share of blame for mistakes when other players are not singled out. The STL game was a particularly egregious example of it all. But it has been going on all year.
Subban's *lowest* TOI game should be around 25 mins. He should push 28-30 mins some nights. He should be our #1 choice in all situations, PP, PK, shut-down, late game protecting a lead or late game looking for a goal, OT, etc. Other teams are taking advantage of their studly young defenders like that. Habs aren't. It's hurting our team to play inferior players in situations where Subban could be helping us. And it's hurting Subban's development too, to the point that you can watch him play now and see him being more tentative or second-guessing himself, see him backing off from those big hits, scared to exercise his talents. It's a MUCH bigger issue than 1 game.
While eating my lunch, I was thinking about this whole ice time stuff and suddenly, a flash of genius stroke me and I now understand everything. There's a reason why Subban is not in the ice in critical moments. There's a reason why we're not NHL coaches. But I found out why, let me explain.
I put myself in opponent forwards, here what I think: that big mouth, un-classy 76, as much I hate him, is the only one who will carry the puck out of his zone or make a good first pass, he is dangerous too on a rush if giving too much space, so I just focus on him, go after him, hit him hard, cover him. The other guy with no one to pass to, will surely ice the puck, flip the puck or sometimes will give us juicy turn overs...
I put myself in opponent coach, here what I'll say before the game: "Guys, here's the plan. Fore-check them to death, that defence is prone to collapse." Pause... "OK, focus on number 76, the rests will collapse themselves. Ya know what I mean...."
I put myself in our coach mind and he's smarter than all of us, he knows that so what I do to counter balance this ?
I TAKE SUBBAN OFF THE ICE ! I throw them off balance. To Hell their plan....'Evils laugh'
OKguys, that's how it works. We can live in peace now. Give me credit for this discovery. Thank you
I put myself in opponent forwards, here what I think: that big mouth, un-classy 76, as much I hate him, is the only one who will carry the puck out of his zone or make a good first pass, he is dangerous too on a rush if giving too much space, so I just focus on him, go after him, hit him hard, cover him. The other guy with no one to pass to, will surely ice the puck, flip the puck or sometimes will give us juicy turn overs...
I put myself in opponent coach, here what I'll say before the game: "Guys, here's the plan. Fore-check them to death, that defence is prone to collapse." Pause... "OK, focus on number 76, the rests will collapse themselves. Ya know what I mean...."
I put myself in our coach mind and he's smarter than all of us, he knows that so what I do to counter balance this ?
I TAKE SUBBAN OFF THE ICE ! I throw them off balance. To Hell their plan....'Evils laugh'
OKguys, that's how it works. We can live in peace now. Give me credit for this discovery. Thank you
PKarey Plekoretty
Registered User
- Nov 16, 2011
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Not really adding much to this disgustingly beaten to death topic, but anyone else annoyed about the fact that there's probably more than 15 threads throughout these forums talking about the **** treatment Habs are giving PK? Or does it not bother you at all?
What I find annoying is that whenever anyone says anything good about PK fans on other boards are quick to discredit him, but in situations like this, almost every thread talks about how he is an absolute stud and that they should offer sheet him if Habs org. is going to treat him this way etc
What I find annoying is that whenever anyone says anything good about PK fans on other boards are quick to discredit him, but in situations like this, almost every thread talks about how he is an absolute stud and that they should offer sheet him if Habs org. is going to treat him this way etc
Well it's pretty simple...as much as people from other fan bases hate on Subban, everyone of them would love to have him on their team
PKarey Plekoretty
Registered User
- Nov 16, 2011
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Guy Germaine
Registered User
so true. The same thing happened when Karlsson won. A lot of Hab fans would say "the Norris is a joke anyway, it's only about points". Now that Subban won, "how could he not be on team Canada?he has a Norris", "he's the best D in the NHL, he won the Norris"
PK has a pest-like style of play. So other teams hate on him because of it, but they would all gladly welcome him on their team.
Can you imagine how much Boston fans would fall in love with PK? Imagine him playing next to Chara. They would absolutely love him.
So ya, I'm not surprised opposing fans are salivating at the thought of possibly offersheeting this guy. I know I would absolutely want my team to do it if the possibility presented itself.
Karlsson definitely deserved the Norris. I don't recall anybody claiming he shouldn't have won it. He wasn't a defensive wall though, he isn't as good as PK defensively, he also doesn't bring the physical element.
Also, there wasn't much denying his talent though, nor was he used as a 4th Dman at times.
Bourne Endeavor
Registered User
What significantly injuries cropped up during the end of last season that could justify allowing, what, 26 goals in five games? It was staggering how awful we were. Wasn't our closing record similar to what Edmonton is currently posting now? It is one thing to cite team struggles as a perpetual issue not unique to Montreal, but such a colossal freefall is rivaled only by Toronto, and they fired their coach for it.
I also echo the sentiments from Blind. It is difficult to offer Therrien the benefit of the doubt when he believes Diaz and Bouillon, the latter of whom would not crack the majority of teams in the league's roster, are his catalysts to win games.
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Frozenice
No Reverse Gear
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The first thing I would do if I wanted to save money on PK's next contract is split him and Markov up and give Diaz the juicy PP time with Markov and let PK run the PK. I really wonder if a lot of these pundits are just making crap up to entertain themselves and others.
No, they're making crap up because they don't know what else to think seeing how that from a hockey stand point it makes no sense.
If you remove PK from the PP, you'd have a very tough time explaining it. It's already hard enough to explain just not playing him in crucial defensive situations, so can you imagine if they removed PP time on top of it???
If it's really a tactic, it's to reduce the amount so they have a little more power in order to sign him. Removing his PP time+crucial defensive duties, why would he want to sign?
When has Therrien ever said Bouillon is a catalyst to win games? I have never heard it. He plays #5 or 6 minutes...usually your "catalyst" plays 23-25 minutes a night.
Diaz is playing very well and has been a lynchpin defensively. Subban is more skilled and will generate more offense but Diaz plays much safer if you are protecting a 1 goal lead.
This is simpy not true...the only difference is any and every mistake PK makes is magnified x100
He has to be perfect, while others benefit from a different evaluation...
Between this and Boullion makes less mistakes than Subban, I don't ever want to read a single one of your posts again. I'm actually starting to wonder if you're well.
Lebowski
El Duderino
- Dec 5, 2010
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The funny thing is you didn't understand a word I wrote. Go back to playing NHL 13
Well that's the question...why does he have to be perfect? Why does every mistake he makes over analyzed?
And yes, when I watch the Habs I watch the whole team, that's what's so perplexing...Diaz has been good, he's a good player. But he's not a better dman than Subban is IN any part of the game.
Look at tonight's game...Erik Karlsson will make mistakes, Andrei Markov will make mistakes, players who handle the puck a lot tend to make some mistakes. If you want PK Subban to be a mistake free hockey player, well you're making him completely useless, not to mention that no player is perfect
I'm sick of reading/seeing that Subban is some defensive liability, the naked eye and advanced stats do NOT support this flimsy argument.
People see whatever they want to see with Subban because it fits their pre-conceived notions about him.
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