TSN Radio Bob McKenzie: Everyone on Carolina except Sebastian Aho is available

[SprDaVE]

The huge amount of Leafs capspace this season does give Dubas an awful lot of options. Can take on some salary to help get that top 4 D man.

Borodin would be a nice grab if possible:

For sure. This thread is about the Canes so I went off track but it's something I'm hoping we take advantage of.

 

[Ziggdiezan]

Hanifin lacks a Hockey I Q he makes far to many poor decisions and if he ever played here he would crumble under the microscope of the Leafs. Gardiner is a Norris trophy winner compared to him.
He was heavily sheltered and if he is not again this year he will be exposed as a million dollar skilled with a 10 cent brain.

Not often you see a defender with 63% of their starts at even strength in the offensive zone. Says a lot about the coaches trust lol. Gotten more and more sheltered every year he has been in the league.

Gardiner for reference had 49.9% of his starts in the offensive zone...

 

[therealkoho]

Just a guess, but did Bob get turned down for an interview for the GM position that had been vacant in Carolina before Waddell took it? Seems an awful sloppy bit of reportage

 

[therealkoho]

Kadri plus out for Faulk/Slavin/Pesce/Hanifin or whatever you can get, Tavares in as Option A, Turris in as Option B.

uhm

Keep in my mind that Kadri has a 4 yrs left at 4.5

Kyle Turris who's a relatively decent centre has a 6 year contract kicking in next season, a contract that will pay him 6m....what were you thinking of trading out for him?

you're kind of all over the place with this

 

[SprDaVE]

uhm

Keep in my mind that Kadri has a 4 yrs left at 4.5

Kyle Turris who's a relatively decent centre has a 6 year contract kicking in next season, a contract that will pay him 6m....what were you thinking of trading out for him?

you're kind of all over the place with this

The grass is always greener on the other side syndrome. It's rampant around here.

 

[ITM]

William Nylander for Brett Pesce would be the starting point here.

This is speculation that this is Carolina's starting point? Or that this is your starting point in equivocating Pesce's value to William Nylander?

We need a RHD. To get a young RHD, with size would be a boon. But...Toronto's starting point to acquire a player like Pesce is not, William Nylander.

Keep in mind the cost to our chemistry. Ours is not a club in need of vast overhaul. We need supplements and carefully considered targets to augment out core.

We are not in Carolina's (perceived) position, but moving Nylander for Pesce behaves as such.

 

[crump]

wonder if Kapanen returning to Dad's old team is something being explored.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

I was thinking maybe something like Ennis and Brodin for Hainsey and maybe a prospect or pick, or something along those lines. Minnesota sheds a ton of cap space to re-sign Zucker and Dumba. Still get a solid veteran for depth in the process.

Not sure if it makes sense in terms of what they want to do but it sure makes sense for us. We have over 25M in cap space for 2018/2019 and not much to spend it on due to the raises of certain players coming up very soon. Ennis can easily be waived to the Marlies if he's healthy.

The huge amount of Leafs capspace this season does give Dubas an awful lot of options. Can take on some salary to help get that top 4 D man.

Borodin would be a nice grab if possible:

Hope your right, but would we be the only team interested in Brodin? Even if Ennis salary (for just one year) was part of the deal, would we be the only team to show interest?

 

[HoweHullOrr]

This is speculation that this is Carolina's starting point? Or that this is your starting point in equivocating Pesce's value to William Nylander?

We need a RHD. To get a young RHD, with size would be a boon. But...Toronto's starting point to acquire a player like Pesce is not, William Nylander.

Keep in mind the cost to our chemistry. Ours is not a club in need of vast overhaul. We need supplements and carefully considered targets to augment out core.

We are not in Carolina's (perceived) position, but moving Nylander for Pesce behaves as such.

The supplements that we need are highly coveted and thus hard to get. We are similar to the Canes in that they need a goalie to address a glaring weakness and we need a good defender (or two) for the same reason.

 

[ITM]

One thing from the clip McKenzie said was that Toronto had to better, that they couldn't afford not to be...and I disagree with that tone of emergency. Making moves from strength, however modest, to need, that can't be offset by other avenues (i.e. trade, free-signing) is how a responsible management group operates.

I hope if we are looking into players that we don't miss the lesser lights like: Valentin Zykov, Warren Foegele, Lucas Wallmark and Hayden Fleury.

 

[IBeL34f]

The supplements that we need are highly coveted and thus hard to get. We are similar to the Canes in that they need a goalie to address a glaring weakness and we need a good defender (or two) for the same reason.

The supplements we need are overblown, in my opinion.

We don't need a "true #1 D" - Rielly's developing into that before our eyes, and simply needs a stabilizing presence to back him up. We should be looking at finding a younger version of Hainsey, really.

Patience and development are going to be far more beneficial to this team, I believe, than swapping out important pieces of our core, like Nylander and Kadri, for an equally-talented Defenseman. Despite there being holes on this roster, knee-jerk reactions to try and fill them have a pretty good chance to backfire, especially when you're talking about undeveloped players like Willy.

I also think that a large part of our defensive woes can be aided by increased effort and responsibility from our forward corps - Losing guys like JVR and Bozak, whom Babcock didn't trust at 5v5, and replacing them with Marlies or vets that Babs can rely on should hopefully go a long way to improving our team D. This group has only been together for 2 years, and it's important to remember that the majority of our roster still has lots of natural growth to come.

 

[ITM]

The supplements that we need are highly coveted and thus hard to get. We are similar to the Canes in that they need a goalie to address a glaring weakness and we need a good defender (or two) for the same reason.

Of course we are...But at the cost of an arm and a leg? I think if we tried to without having another supplemental plan to supplement the move, we'd still be limping around, except instead of the right it would be left.

Brett Pesce was brought up. Good piece. But what's our cost? Can't be Matthews, Marner, Nylander or Kadri. Can't be Gardiner, Reilly or Dermott. And I don't think it can be our 1st either. I want us to keep our 1sts and stockpile value, especially with Dubas driving the ship. I shudder to think if we moved Kapanen too early. Players like Brown and Hyman have ingratiated themselves as necessary cogs. And pieces like Johnsson and Marleau and Hainsey aren't movable in this context.

What's key for us, I would think, is the off-season. If we can sign certain players, then what we have that wasn't otherwise expendable yet becomes redundant, then becomes movable. And I don't think taking a alarmist posture is the way to approach Carolina's situation. They're not giving players away and we're simply not in a position - yet - to pull the joists out of our foundation.

Ideally, and I repeat, ideally, if there was a preferred scenario, I'd love to sign and trade JVR for a player like Pesce and a prospect and a pick.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

Patience and development are going to be far more beneficial to this team

I agree with the portion of your post that I selected (see above). The use of the word"supplements" was interesting and seemed like word-smithing to cover up an obvious issue.

I am NOT in any way attempting to back a particular method that we should use to address our needs. I just think we can be honest about identifying that we do have some needs. Some seem to think this can be addressed easily. I hope they are correct, but if it was that easy, I'd think we should ask why we haven't done it by now.

 

[deletethis]

Absolutely there is defense talent in Carolina I'd think the Leafs would be interested in. I wonder how the entire Carolina team can have a positive Corsi yet still suck. If it's due to bad goaltending then why were they 23rd in goals for as well?

 

[IBeL34f]

I agree with the portion of your post that I selected (see above). The use of the word"supplements" was interesting and seemed like word-smithing to cover up an obvious issue.

I am NOT in any way attempting to back a particular method that we should use to address our needs. I just think we can be honest about identifying that we do have some needs.

I got the sense that "supplements" was originally used because the OP (ITM) doesn't believe the pieces required are as drastic or immediate as many around here are making them out to be, which I would certainly agree with.

Our core is in place - We really should just be trying to "supplement" that core with depth pieces that can help us improve in areas where we appear to be lacking. Trading off parts of our core to try and find other core pieces in different positions feels like robbing Peter to pay Paul at this stage in the game.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

I got the sense that "supplements" was originally used because the OP (ITM) doesn't believe the pieces required are as drastic or immediate as many around here are making them out to be, which I would certainly agree with.

Our core is in place - We really should just be trying to "supplement" that core with depth pieces that can help us improve in areas where we appear to be lacking. Trading off parts of our core to try and find other core pieces in different positions feels like robbing Peter to pay Paul at this stage in the game.

Except that the "depth" pieces being referred here to are top-4 defenders which are hardly "depth", nor are the kind of players that are easily obtained.

 

[Mess]

This is speculation that this is Carolina's starting point? Or that this is your starting point in equivocating Pesce's value to William Nylander?

We need a RHD. To get a young RHD, with size would be a boon. But...Toronto's starting point to acquire a player like Pesce is not, William Nylander.

Keep in mind the cost to our chemistry. Ours is not a club in need of vast overhaul. We need supplements and carefully considered targets to augment out core.

We are not in Carolina's (perceived) position, but moving Nylander for Pesce behaves as such.

I'd bet that every time Dubas picks up the phone and asks about a young (<= age 23) top 4 dman (like Pesce or Slavin) that the most common request from the opposition is Nylader/Marner as the ask in return.

In most cases Dubas would then say thanks and hang up the phone, feeling the asking price is too high.

I believe however if say he called Arizona and asked about OEL, then he would know he had better be prepared to offer Nylader/Marner as part of the trade or it will be Arizona that says thanks but no thanks and hangs up the phone.

 

[IBeL34f]

Except that the "depth" pieces being referred here to are top-4 defenders which are hardly "depth", nor are the kind of players that are easily obtained.

It certainly doesn't take trading Nylander or Kadri to acquire De Haan in Free Agency, or to develop Liljegren/Dermott/2018-1st-rounder.

Like I said initially, the holes, in my opinion, are vastly overstated around here, and our position is not nearly as dire as many would make it out to be. 2 years into this core's development is way too early to be stripping away Nylanders and Kadris for some help on D for my liking. Be patient, add what you can without chopping off your nose to spite your face, and continue to develop.

Do we need to get better defensively? Yep. Do we need to trade core pieces to do that? I really don't think so.

 

[-DeMo-]

Absolutely there is defense talent in Carolina I'd think the Leafs would be interested in. I wonder how the entire Carolina team can have a positive Corsi yet still suck. If it's due to bad goaltending then why were they 23rd in goals for as well?

I think it's pretty well documented that Carolina's 2 biggest needs are high end scoring forwards and goaltending, and they probably only move Dmen which is there strength in order to improve on those area's so basing a trade for Pesce or Slavin etc, around Kapanen's/Brown + picks/prospect simply isn't going to get it done for them.

 

[Trapper]

I think it's pretty well documented that Carolina's 2 biggest needs are high end scoring forwards and goaltending, and they probably only move Dmen which is there strength in order to improve on those area's so basing a trade for Pesce or Slavin etc, around Kapanen's/Brown + picks/prospect simply isn't going to get it done for them.

Centers are the big issue. Staal had the most points as a center with 46 points. Lindholm plays between center and wing.
On the wing Carolina has Aho,Teravainen,Skinner,can draft Svechnikov 2nd overall,can sign JVR if the like.

 

[saltming]

The supplements we need are overblown, in my opinion.

We don't need a "true #1 D" - Rielly's developing into that before our eyes, and simply needs a stabilizing presence to back him up. We should be looking at finding a younger version of Hainsey, really.

Patience and development are going to be far more beneficial to this team, I believe, than swapping out important pieces of our core, like Nylander and Kadri, for an equally-talented Defenseman. Despite there being holes on this roster, knee-jerk reactions to try and fill them have a pretty good chance to backfire, especially when you're talking about undeveloped players like Willy.

I also think that a large part of our defensive woes can be aided by increased effort and responsibility from our forward corps - Losing guys like JVR and Bozak, whom Babcock didn't trust at 5v5, and replacing them with Marlies or vets that Babs can rely on should hopefully go a long way to improving our team D. This group has only been together for 2 years, and it's important to remember that the majority of our roster still has lots of natural growth to come.

Completely with you on the rielly thought. Hard to know for sure but I think Pesce could be that stabilizer and make a solid 1st pairing for us.
Ultimately I see dermott replacing gardiner
Rielly pesce
Dermott Z
If Z bounces back that could be a formidable top 4

 

[HoweHullOrr]

It certainly doesn't take trading Nylander or Kadri to acquire De Haan in Free Agency, or to develop Liljegren/Dermott/2018-1st-rounder.

Like I said initially, the holes, in my opinion, are vastly overstated around here, and our position is not nearly as dire as many would make it out to be. 2 years into this core's development is way too early to be stripping away Nylanders and Kadris for some help on D for my liking. Be patient, add what you can without chopping off your nose to spite your face, and continue to develop.

Do we need to get better defensively? Yep. Do we need to trade core pieces to do that? I really don't think so.

No, we are not in a "dire" situation. And no I have not stated or endorsed any particular method of addressing these holes. Having said that, I not sure its going to be as easy as some seem to think, and I think we are finding out in real-time that it takes time to build. I think GMs just aren't going to give us a good top-4 defender for the lesser bits often mentioned here.

 

[IBeL34f]

No, we are not in a "dire" situation. And no I have not stated or endorsed any particular method of addressing these holes. Having said that, I not sure its going to be as easy as some seem to think, and I think we are finding out in real-time that it takes time to build.

The bolded is definitely true - Some of us seem to have been better prepared for this fact than others.

 

[Daisy Jane]

Of course we are...But at the cost of an arm and a leg? I think if we tried to without having another supplemental plan to supplement the move, we'd still be limping around, except instead of the right it would be left.

Brett Pesce was brought up. Good piece. But what's our cost? Can't be Matthews, Marner, Nylander or Kadri. Can't be Gardiner, Reilly or Dermott. And I don't think it can be our 1st either. I want us to keep our 1sts and stockpile value, especially with Dubas driving the ship. I shudder to think if we moved Kapanen too early. Players like Brown and Hyman have ingratiated themselves as necessary cogs. And pieces like Johnsson and Marleau and Hainsey aren't movable in this context.

What's key for us, I would think, is the off-season. If we can sign certain players, then what we have that wasn't otherwise expendable yet becomes redundant, then becomes movable. And I don't think taking a alarmist posture is the way to approach Carolina's situation. They're not giving players away and we're simply not in a position - yet - to pull the joists out of our foundation.

Ideally, and I repeat, ideally, if there was a preferred scenario, I'd love to sign and trade JVR for a player like Pesce and a prospect and a pick.

yah. that's not going to work.

honestly. we're not 1972 Montreal. Like hell I heard people say that Bracco is untouchable in a thread.
Kadri 100 percent could be moved out. so could Brown, or Hyman (but that wouldn't get it done alone, neither would Kapanen).

honestly, we can't just have this idea of "all we have to do is trade the fluff/players we don't like."

 

[IBeL34f]

Completely with you on the rielly thought. Hard to know for sure but I think Pesce could be that stabilizer and make a solid 1st pairing for us.
Ultimately I see dermott replacing gardiner
Rielly pesce
Dermott Z
If Z bounces back that could be a formidable top 4

If the cost of acquiring Pesce is anything close to what's been discussed around here, I'd much rather hold off for the time being.

If we can get a legit top-4 D this off-season through UFA, or trading our 1st or Gardiner (deal him for assets, flip those assets into a better-suited D), then I'm all for something like that. Otherwise, I'd rather bring in depth and see what we really have in guys like Zaitsev, Holl, Carrick and Liljegren. I'd rather continue the development of the core we already have, and suffer the fate of an unfinished blueline, than trade a Nylander or Kadri and remove our biggest strength in the process.