Post-Game Talk: Bob Cole Farewell!

[Superstar]

It’s easy to say another GM would’ve got different results cause we will never know.

Michael Nylander imo was driving that bus so he wouldn’t have been necessarily swayed by a more experienced gm.

You can’t really play hardball with Mathews and it’s not really the amount it’s the term that bothered me.

Other than that, signing Tavares and Muzzin were good ideas. Marner playing amazing is not a problem for me and yes he will get paid....which may force a move but another GM may not have been able to force him to negotiate earlier either.

Bunch of moaning

The AAV is correlated to the term...Matthews' camp wanted $14 million plus for 8 years...Dubas came down on the term to bring the AAV down...it's a significant over payment, especially when you consider the Leafs also has to fork out 93% every year in signing bonuses. Matthews did not give a cent back to the Leafs...in fact, he didn't even take fair market value, but demanded a big premium, let alone anything resembling a hometown discount. We're going to have a bunch of expensive contract trophies instead of a championship TEAM.

 

[thewave]

The AAV is correlated to the term...Matthews' camp wanted $14 million plus for 8 years...Dubas came down on the term to bring the AAV down...it's a significant over payment, especially when you consider the Leafs also has to fork out 93% every year in signing bonuses. Matthews did not give a cent back to the Leafs...in fact, he didn't even take fair market value, but demanded a big premium, let alone anything resembling a hometown discount.

Wanted 14m, see this isn't a situation where you are holding someone at gunpoint. Dubas first should say.. you aren't worth 14m. I mean lol

 

[Superstar]

Wanted 14m, see this isn't a situation where you are holding someone at gunpoint. Dubas first should say.. you aren't worth 14m. I mean lol

If you listen to Dubas interview after Matthews signed, he mentioned they didn't even look at Matthews' stats when asked, which tells me he pretty much bent over to Matthews' camp...this Dubas guy seems like a "yes" man to me.

 

[PromisedLand]

Maybe, just maybe, we give him longer then 10 months before declaring hes a failure?

I think if one sees something that looks like a substantial problem then the right thing to do is to fix the problem right away and not wait any longer just in case the problems spreads even more.

it's like when one gets sick you want to treat it right away; do not wait to think it will go away because if it doesn't you are in deeper than if you had treated it right away.

In terms of GM, cap management and icing a competitive roster in the salary cap world; you require good foresight and good decisions; am yet to see anything of that from the GM. 10 months into his job there already are cap issues while the team being iced is not necessarily competitive in the salary cap world and starting next season the defense looks like the following:

Muzzin Rielly
Dermot Zaitsev
Rosen Holl
xxx

One year of Tavares' prime after this season is gone; I don't expect Tavares to be performing at peak level in year 5, 6 and 7 of his contract

Not good foresight from this GM IMO

 

[luvdahattymatty]

Gramps here
Great play by play man
Leafs in his heart
Most of you wont remember but Foster Hewitt was greatest of all time
That guy made you feel like you were at the game live with the passion in his voice
Maybe it was because I listened to him on radio when I was a little kid
But that Summit series call on the Henderson goal wow nothing has ever come close since

 

[PromisedLand]

The fans are probably mostly younger millennial types that like his glasses and virtue signallings. It's the vote for this guy because he looks presidential or prime ministerial crowd. The I like his smile crowd.

It's the kinda stuff that makes this here half empty bottle of crown make sense at 10am on a Sunday morning.

Dubas decisions' are going to lead to roster casualties because of his cap management weakning the roster; I still can't beleive he didn't sign Marner in the summer when the offer was 8 years for 9M from Ferris according to many report.

I am sure Marner could have been signed for 8 or 8.5 AAV for 8 years last summer. There were also reports that Matthews camp was willing to sign for 11 AAV for 8 years in the summer and this moron GM didn't get it done.

He said no too "rich" for him; then got bent over by both nylander and matthews; now marner is going to come in at around 11 AAV too for 5 or 6 years; absolutely terrible by this moronic GM

What the F did he think having Tavares in the line up would mean to Matthews and Marner's production numbers? Did he think they will go down or stay the same? Absolutely ZERO foresight by this Dumbass

 

[Warden of the North]

I think if one sees something that looks like a substantial problem then the right thing to do is to fix the problem right away and not wait any longer just in case the problems spreads even more.

it's like when one gets sick you want to treat it right away; do not wait to think it will go away because if it doesn't you are in deeper than if you had treated it right away.

In terms of GM, cap management and icing a competitive roster in the salary cap world; you require good foresight and good decisions; am yet to see anything of that from the GM. 10 months into his job there already are cap issues while the team being iced is not necessarily competitive in the salary cap world and starting next season the defense looks like the following:

Muzzin Rielly
Dermot Zaitsev
Rosen Holl
xxx

One year of Tavares' prime after this season is gone; I don't expect Tavares to be performing at peak level in year 5, 6 and 7 of his contract

Not good foresight from this GM IMO

Its 6 months from the next regular season game, maybe give him at least the offseason to see what he can do? And he has to clean up the mess from the previous GM in Zaitsev and Marleau. Thats 10.5m that Lou screwed us with. Whats Dubas' biggest misktake? Nylander? He could trade that contract in heartbeat for a good return. Not so for Zaitsev and Marleau.

 

[PromisedLand]

Oh please. Ive watched decades of "Hockey Men" run this team into the ground.

this is without context my friend

Ballard Era
Ontario's Teacher's Pension Plan

All they wanted was $$$$ they didn't necessarily care for championship or a full rebuild. JFJ wanted a rebuild and OPP basically said absolutely NO to that because they wanted playoff revenues.

We now have owners Bell/Rogers/ Tanembaum who allowed rebuild took the financial hit a bit to have a successful franchise that can win championships

The circumstances before versus now under the new owners is very different; so the "hockey men" that ran this team into the ground was more to do with the owners and less to do with their GMs.

New situation allowed to build it from scratch and do it righ not only in terms of cap management but also team composition and team structure and Dubas has completely effed it up big time

 

[Stand Witness]

I can't be the only one who was a little disappointed that Bob Cole didn't just turn off the mic after saying "and thats all she wrote".

Would have been a legendary ending but then he went on for like another minute or two lol

 

[thewave]

Dubas decisions' are going to lead to roster casualties because of his cap management weakning the roster; I still can't beleive he didn't sign Marner in the summer when the offer was 8 years for 9M from Ferris according to many report.

I am sure Marner could have been signed for 8 or 8.5 AAV for 8 years last summer. There were also reports that Matthews camp was willing to sign for 11 AAV for 8 years in the summer and this moron GM didn't get it done.

He said no too "rich" for him; then got bent over by both nylander and matthews; now marner is going to come in at around 11 AAV too for 5 or 6 years; absolutely terrible by this moronic GM

What the F did he think having Tavares in the line up would mean to Matthews and Marner's production numbers? Did he think they will go down or stay the same? Absolutely ZERO foresight by this Dumbass

If all that is true. He should be fired.

 

[thewave]

If you listen to Dubas interview after Matthews signed, he mentioned they didn't even look at Matthews' stats when asked, which tells me he pretty much bent over to Matthews' camp...this Dubas guy seems like a "yes" man to me.

Didn't look at stats? Lol, an eager yes man at that.

 

[PromisedLand]

Its 6 months from the next regular season game, maybe give him at least the offseason to see what he can do? And he has to clean up the mess from the previous GM in Zaitsev and Marleau. Thats 10.5m that Lou screwed us with. Whats Dubas' biggest misktake? Nylander? He could trade that contract in heartbeat for a good return. Not so for Zaitsev and Marleau.

The overpayments to RFAs on lesser term is on Dubas not on Lou. Marleau is off the cap after next season anyway and Zaitsev can easily be Seattle expansion fodder

Dubas is on record that he will not trade nylander that mean other roster casualties who are cap controlled like Kadri for example.

I will keep calling out Dubas until he does something that makes team better in the salary cap era; so far he hasn't done anything IMO to make team more competitive in the salary cap era for foreseeable future. All he has done thus far is given inflated contracts to his RFAs for less term and traded a 1st round pick + for a D-man who has only one more year on his contract after this season and doesn't have the foot speed to match the speed the teams plays and he is a LHD to boot; not even remotely having a foresight to think of how the defense will look starting next season.

Btw all the fake narrative of why Tavares signed with the Leafs has less to do with Dubas and more to do with the players on the roster none of whom are Dubas picks

FYI Dubas didn't even want Marner; if it wasn't for Hunter we would not have Marner

 

[Stephen]

Even though Bob Cole's been off Leafs broadcasts for many years now it was fun to hear him call last night's game one last time.

 

[thewave]

The overpayments to RFAs on lesser term is on Dubas not on Lou. Marleau is off the cap after next season anyway and Zaitsev can easily be Seattle expansion fodder

Dubas is on record that he will not trade nylander that mean other roster casualties who are cap controlled like Kadri for example.

I will keep calling out Dubas until he does something that makes team better in the salary cap era; so far he hasn't done anything IMO to make team more competitive in the salary cap era for foreseeable future. All he has done thus far is given inflated contracts to his RFAs for less term and traded a 1st round pick + for a D-man who has only one more year on his contract after this season and doesn't have the foot speed to match the speed the teams plays and he is a LHD to boot; not even remotely having a foresight to think of how the defense will look starting next season.

Btw all the fake narrative of why Tavares signed with the Leafs has less to do with Dubas and more to do with the players on the roster none of whom are Dubas picks

FYI Dubas didn't even want Marner; if it wasn't for Hunter we would not have Marner

The elephant in the room is that both Nylander and Matthews contracts unload 50% value in half the term. They are designed for trade and I think we may need to or end up being stuck as a team that can't quite get it done.

Sort of a Canucks like team that maybe makes it one year but doesn't have the ponies to finish the job.

 

[Peasy]

The overpayments to RFAs on lesser term is on Dubas not on Lou. Marleau is off the cap after next season anyway and Zaitsev can easily be Seattle expansion fodder

Dubas is on record that he will not trade nylander that mean other roster casualties who are cap controlled like Kadri for example.

I will keep calling out Dubas until he does something that makes team better in the salary cap era; so far he hasn't done anything IMO to make team more competitive in the salary cap era for foreseeable future. All he has done thus far is given inflated contracts to his RFAs for less term and traded a 1st round pick + for a D-man who has only one more year on his contract after this season and doesn't have the foot speed to match the speed the teams plays and he is a LHD to boot; not even remotely having a foresight to think of how the defense will look starting next season.

Btw all the fake narrative of why Tavares signed with the Leafs has less to do with Dubas and more to do with the players on the roster none of whom are Dubas picks

FYI Dubas didn't even want Marner; if it wasn't for Hunter we would not have Marner

Are you sure about that? Do you have quotes from Dubas himself? I'm willing to bet you do not.

 

[PromisedLand]

Are you sure about that? Do you have quotes from Dubas himself? I'm willing to bet you do not.

there were many reports; of course there are no direct quotes you think dubas would say something like that openly in the media?

 

[Peasy]

there were many reports; of course there are no direct quotes you think dubas would say something like that openly in the media?

All I recall is that Dubas was interested in Provorov and Rantanen (as he was looking to trade down with Columbus), that doesn't mean he was against Marner, those were just other players he had interest in. Babcock is the one that wanted Hanifin.

 

[Notsince67]

The fans are probably mostly younger millennial types that like his glasses and virtue signallings. It's the vote for this guy because he looks presidential or prime ministerial crowd. The I like his smile crowd.

It's the kinda stuff that makes this here half empty bottle of crown make sense at 10am on a Sunday morning.

It's noon somewhere

 

[PromisedLand]

All I recall is that Dubas was interested in Provorov and Rantanen (as he was looking to trade down with Columbus), that doesn't mean he was against Marner, those were just other players he had interest in. Babcock is the one that wanted Hanifin.

I remember reading an article (tried but cannot find it); that Hunter wanted Marner, Dubas wanted Strome or Provorov;

the only article i could find was this

Mirtle: Maple Leafs’ divided front office pushes for Marner and Hanifin


EDIT: Found another article

Toronto Maple Leafs: Kyle Dubas On Fourth Overall Strategy

 

[Bomber0104]

I remember reading an article (tried but cannot find it); that Hunter wanted Marner, Dubas wanted to Provorov;

the only article i could find was this

Mirtle: Maple Leafs’ divided front office pushes for Marner and Hanifin

Bit of an aside but what an amazing draft that was..

 

[PromisedLand]

Bit of an aside but what an amazing draft that was..

Thanks to Hunter we found a gem in Marner; and we got Dermott as well (also Bracco is pretty solid).

Hunter's 2015 draft was pretty solid for the Leafs IMO; 2016-2017 too soon to say at the moment

Table below is from an article done last year in 2018

Year	Round	Overall	Player	Nat.	Pos	Age	2018	NHL GP
2015	2	61	Jeremy Bracco	US	RW	18	Marlies
2015	3	65	Andrew Nielsen	CA	D	18	Marlies
2015	4	95	Jesper Lindgren	SE	D	18	Marlies
2015	5	125	Dmytro Timashov	UA	LW	18	Marlies
2015	1	4	Mitchell Marner	CA	C	18	NHL	159
2015	2	34	Travis Dermott	CA	D	18	NHL	37
2015	6	155	Stephen Desrocher	CA	D	19	Rights no longer held
2015	7	185	Nikita Korostelev	RU	RW	18	Rights no longer held
2015	3	68	Martins Dzierkals	LV	LW	18	Was on AHL contract
2016	2	31	Yegor Korshkov	RU	RW	20	KHL
2016	2	57	Carl Grundstrom	SE	RW	18	Marlies
2016	4	92	Adam Brooks	CA	C	20	Marlies
2016	3	62	Joseph Woll	US	G	18	NCAA
2016	3	72	James Greenway	US	D	18	NCAA
2016	1	1	Auston Matthews	US	C	18	NHL	144
2016	4	101	Keaton Middleton	CA	D	18	Rights about to expire
2016	5	122	Vladimir Bobylev	RU	RW	19	Rights about to expire
2016	6	179	Nicolas Mattinen	CA	D	18	Rights about to expire
2016	6	152	Jonathan Walker	US	D	20	Rights no longer held
2016	7	182	Nikolai Chebykin	RU	LW	19	VHL
2017	4	124	Vladislav Kara	RU	LW	19	KHL
2017	1	17	Timothy Liljegren	SE	D	18	Marlies
2017	7	203	Ryan O'Connell	CA	D	18	NCAA
2017	2	59	Eemeli Rasanen	FI	D	18	OHL
2017	5	141	Fedor Gordeev	RU	D	18	OHL
2017	6	172	Ryan Mcgregor	CA	C	18	OHL
2017	4	110	Ian Scott	CA	G	18	WHL

[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[ULF_55]

Congrats to Kapanen.

 

[Notsince67]

Wanted 14m, see this isn't a situation where you are holding someone at gunpoint. Dubas first should say.. you aren't worth 14m. I mean lol

One would have thought that Tavares gave the leafs some leverage. I'm thinking that without Tavares, the leafs would have been looking at 15MM demands.

 

[thewave]

One would have thought that Tavares gave the leafs some leverage. I'm thinking that without Tavares, the leafs would have been looking at 15MM demands.

It's still insane, that would imply that Matthews and camp have delusions of grandeur. When Matthews came back his performance was way down, all Dubas had to do is say, lets discuss after the season. That's it. 14m / 11.6m would not stand. These contract negotiations by Dubas have been a complete debacle.

 

[Maple Leaf]

I missed the game yesterday. What were the forward lines? Were Matthews and Nylander together?

Nylander and Kadri have got that Middle Eastern chemistry going