Bo "the hero Vancouver deserves" Horvat - Part IV

[nucksfan8888]

Loved the speed he's shown at times, really thought that was gonna be more of an issue with him. Also amazing how strong he is for a 19 year old.

The potential is there and I think the speed difference from CHL to NHL that is creating lack of time and space is the only thing holding him back. Being his first pro season, I am not worried, IMO he will be elite #2 center borderline #1 when it's all said and done.

 

[bbud]

Loved the speed he's shown at times, really thought that was gonna be more of an issue with him. Also amazing how strong he is for a 19 year old.

The potential is there and I think the speed difference from CHL to NHL that is creating lack of time and space is the only thing holding him back. Being his first pro season, I am not worried, IMO he will be elite #2 center borderline #1 when it's all said and done.

Id agree given a year under his belt to learn how to handle the speed the pace and grind of the NHL hes only going to improve add to that at 19 hes also going to get bigger and stronger and hasnt looked like hes totally out of place at this stage .

 

[alternate]

Meat and Botatoes

Put Kassian with Bo and this is a perfect line name.

 

[kanucks25]

Whenever I see #53 on the ice I get a little happy inside. He's already playing relatively well in a tough role, especially considering his age.

He's like a walking beacon of hope for this franchise, even if he doesn't turn out to be a 1C.

 

[TheWanderer]

Put Kassian with Bo and this is a perfect line name.

Matthias - Horvat - Kassian

Meat and Botatoes line.

 

[tantalum]

Pretty clear his skating has improved significantly since the start of the season. That is something that I'm not sure would have happened if he was in junior. Being in the NHL has really forced him to concentrate on that aspect of his game.

Well at least I can't imagine him turning D-men the way he has the last little bit way back in October. Or maybe he is just gaining confidence and taking a few more risks.

Either way he's showing some great development.

 

[DCantheDDad]

I love me some Bo. Im very happy to see the Canucks give the rookies a little bit of leeway to learn the game and make mistakes without stapling them to the bench for 3/4 of the game, like in years past. It sure is fun as a fan to watch a little hint of the future.

 

[Phenomenon13]

I don't know if this has been discussed but Canucksarmy recent player grades article didn't have great reviews about Horvat.

"Vancouver's top prospect has flashed NHL skill and definitely has the potential to be an effective player in this league. Unfortunately, he just isn't ready yet. Given a neutral deployment with good wingers and weak competition, Horvat has been absolutely crushed at even strength. He may be a good player one day, but that day won't be this season."

http://canucksarmy.com/2015/1/5/canucks-army-monthly-player-grades-forwards-jan-5th-2015

 

[alternate]

I don't know if this has been discussed but Canucksarmy recent player grades article didn't have great reviews about Horvat.

"Vancouver's top prospect has flashed NHL skill and definitely has the potential to be an effective player in this league. Unfortunately, he just isn't ready yet. Given a neutral deployment with good wingers and weak competition, Horvat has been absolutely crushed at even strength. He may be a good player one day, but that day won't be this season."

http://canucksarmy.com/2015/1/5/canucks-army-monthly-player-grades-forwards-jan-5th-2015

That's pretty fair, imo. Especially when you take the season as a whole. I do think he's improving, even if just incrementally, as the season progresses though. Really, this season for Bo is about next year and the year after...hopefully he can be ready to take on more serious defensive minutes, freeing Bonino up to provide secondary scoring (something he's probably better suited for).

 

[MarkusNaslund19]

I don't know if this has been discussed but Canucksarmy recent player grades article didn't have great reviews about Horvat.

"Vancouver's top prospect has flashed NHL skill and definitely has the potential to be an effective player in this league. Unfortunately, he just isn't ready yet. Given a neutral deployment with good wingers and weak competition, Horvat has been absolutely crushed at even strength. He may be a good player one day, but that day won't be this season."

http://canucksarmy.com/2015/1/5/canucks-army-monthly-player-grades-forwards-jan-5th-2015

I used to really love Canucksarmy. They had some great writers 3 years ago (Jeff Angus the best). They used to be guided by advanced stats. But when their weakest writer (Dmitri Filipovic) took over it became entirely about the stats and ignored the eye test completely.

To say that Horvat is getting 'crushed' just shows that you're not watching the games. I'm sure his CORSI isn't great because his line doesn't generate tons of shots. But getting crushed is being beaten 1-on-1 by the other centre leading to disruption for all of your line mates. Crushed is giving up 5-alarm chances regularly. Instead, he basically saws off against second and third liners on other teams at 19 years old.
The stats nerds don't know how useful that is. When he's out there, the pucks spends some time in our zone and some in the opposite zone. It basically stays on the outside in each end. Which is fine, he'll learn to generate offense. But that means that our defense men aren't being taxed. It takes a lot of heat off of our top two lines. It's maybe the best 4th line I've ever seen the Canucks have in 20 years.

But the fancy stats don't tell you that. Fancy stats are useful. They really are in concert with the eye test by someone who understands the game. But taken on their own they're like any statistic. They can prove whatever narrative you want to create.

 

[Verviticus]

when i watch bo horvat, i dont see the things that you're seeing. if only there were better, more objective ways to discuss it.

 

[mathonwy]

But the fancy stats don't tell you that. Fancy stats are useful. They really are in concert with the eye test by someone who understands the game. But taken on their own they're like any statistic. They can prove whatever narrative you want to create.

I hope this is the right analogy. I see Horvat basically playing like an improving NHL journeyman. There's a reason why Andrew Ebbett keeps getting employed and that's because he can take an NHL shift without becoming a detriment to his team. This is what I see with Horvat.

Not a world beater but a heck of lot better than Cody Hodgson and his protected minutes.

 

[Snatcher Demko]

I used to really love Canucksarmy. They had some great writers 3 years ago (Jeff Angus the best). They used to be guided by advanced stats. But when their weakest writer (Dmitri Filipovic) took over it became entirely about the stats and ignored the eye test completely.

To say that Horvat is getting 'crushed' just shows that you're not watching the games. I'm sure his CORSI isn't great because his line doesn't generate tons of shots. But getting crushed is being beaten 1-on-1 by the other centre leading to disruption for all of your line mates. Crushed is giving up 5-alarm chances regularly. Instead, he basically saws off against second and third liners on other teams at 19 years old.
The stats nerds don't know how useful that is. When he's out there, the pucks spends some time in our zone and some in the opposite zone. It basically stays on the outside in each end. Which is fine, he'll learn to generate offense. But that means that our defense men aren't being taxed. It takes a lot of heat off of our top two lines. It's maybe the best 4th line I've ever seen the Canucks have in 20 years.

But the fancy stats don't tell you that. Fancy stats are useful. They really are in concert with the eye test by someone who understands the game. But taken on their own they're like any statistic. They can prove whatever narrative you want to create.

Couldn't agree with you more.

 

[leftwinglockdown]

I used to really love Canucksarmy. They had some great writers 3 years ago (Jeff Angus the best). They used to be guided by advanced stats. But when their weakest writer (Dmitri Filipovic) took over it became entirely about the stats and ignored the eye test completely.

To say that Horvat is getting 'crushed' just shows that you're not watching the games. I'm sure his CORSI isn't great because his line doesn't generate tons of shots. But getting crushed is being beaten 1-on-1 by the other centre leading to disruption for all of your line mates. Crushed is giving up 5-alarm chances regularly. Instead, he basically saws off against second and third liners on other teams at 19 years old.
The stats nerds don't know how useful that is. When he's out there, the pucks spends some time in our zone and some in the opposite zone. It basically stays on the outside in each end. Which is fine, he'll learn to generate offense. But that means that our defense men aren't being taxed. It takes a lot of heat off of our top two lines. It's maybe the best 4th line I've ever seen the Canucks have in 20 years.

But the fancy stats don't tell you that. Fancy stats are useful. They really are in concert with the eye test by someone who understands the game. But taken on their own they're like any statistic. They can prove whatever narrative you want to create.

I like the kid and we can all see that Bo has the tools but right now, he's not above replacement level as a player in this league. Both the eye test and the analytics tell us that when he's on the ice, we spend way more time in our zone.

He's doing the right things like staying in position and trying to battle but as the center/3rd d-man, he's not winning puck battles and getting the puck out enough against the soft competition that he's matched up against.

I will say that it is not all his fault as the loss of Hamhuis has turned us into a 1-pairing team and Edler-Tanev can't babysit every line but it is going to be a long second-half for Bo if he doesn't improve.

The coaching staff clearly knows this as Bo's minutes have been trending downwards lately and that will be the status quo until he starts turning the possession tide.

 

[TheWanderer]

That's a good point you make about the loss of Hamhuis - when Hammer was still around, Horvat was playing much better and I think it's partly because that line didn't have to focus so heavily on playing defence. What do you really expect to see when our 4th line is out there, backed by two of Bieksa, Stanton, Sbisa, and Weber?

 

[bossram]

The analytics and eye test both show that Horvat is getting consistently outplayed. He's stuck in his own zone too much and doesn't generate much offense to compensate. And he gets butter soft deployment on top of that.

I think Horvat will slowly develop into a useful player. But he's not one now. He wasn't and isn't ready for the NHL. He's pretty clearly the weakest forward on the team.

Keeping him around just for his faceoff ability (which has been steadily declining as the season progresses) isn't enough justification. If you want faceoffs, I'm sure Dave Steckel is floating around somewhere. And his on-ice performance can't really be much worse.

 

[Zaddy91]

Matthias is by far the worst forward on the team, horvat is just running low on energy, first pro season, ahl conditoning stint, worst travel in league.

give the kid a break he turns 20 in 4 mnths

 

[Pip]

Thought he had some extra jump tonight. Really hurt once Vey was thrown on his line as Bo is not good enough yet to carry his wingers.

 

[DCantheDDad]

He is getting dominated possession wise, but, at the end of the day, he is a 19 year old who is learning the NHL game and I am fine with that. I would like to see him spnd a game or two in the pressbox, getting a chance to reset a bit and then rotate back in. He seems to be showing signs of being a real gamer in a few years. It is too bad he cant play in the AHL this year, but thems the breaks.

 

[m9]

He's shown a bit more offensively the last few games. He hasn't been successful with it, but at least he's attempting a few things and has had some chances.

 

[tantalum]

Possession wise he might be struggling when he's on the ice but I'm not sure it can be chalked up to his play in particular. He seems to be in position and doing what he needs to do. In the end I'm not that concerned. I don't think he is hurting the team and he is learning and getting better. Leave it at that.

 

[Proto]

If they're going to keep him with the big club as poor as he's been lately, he's going to need a better linemate than Dorsett. Dorsett is fine as your 12th best forward, but he isn't good enough to prop up an at-best-replacement-level forward like Horvat.

Of course, this is only my advice if the team is competitive. I am also fine with this continued slide out of contention and towards a better draftpick... More Horvat, I say!

 

[Cocoa Crisp]

He isn't winning enough of the 50:50 battles along the boards or anywhere else for that matter. It'll come with experience and his Corsi will improve along with it.

His strength is NHL caliber, his defensive reads are better than some of our younger forwards (Vey, I'm looking at you), and he seems like a very coachable player - slavishly crashing the net at every shot attempt for example.

The silver lining is that some of his junior hockey offensive swagger seems to be creeping back into his game: toe drags, power moves towards the crease; that speaks to his growing comfort level and confidence.

I think it's best to re-visit whether he should have been sent back to London at the end of the season. IIRC, Couturier really started coming into his own in the second half. One can hope...

 

[Baby Pettersson]

One thing I've noticed, as others said, Horvat gets more confident and creative with his game every time he plays. He shows improvement each game, and at this point that's all that really matters.

 

[arsmaster*]

If they're going to keep him with the big club as poor as he's been lately, he's going to need a better linemate than Dorsett. Dorsett is fine as your 12th best forward, but he isn't good enough to prop up an at-best-replacement-level forward like Horvat.

Of course, this is only my advice if the team is competitive. I am also fine with this continued slide out of contention and towards a better draftpick... More Horvat, I say!

Had a post typed up just like this before my browser crashed.

I think a big issue is that Dorsett and Horvat get off the same page when they're in the offensive zone. Horvat would do really well to just dominate and continuously keep the puck down low. Dorsett likes to break the cycle.

Matthias would be great for Horvat, the puck wouldn't go to the net much, but they'd have it down low longer.