Blues Trade Proposals Part XXXII

[Majorityof1]

Earlier in the summer there was that rumor floating around about a TOR-STL trade involving Kapanen and presumably Bouwmeester. Knowing what we know now about our prospect depth, would you still make that trade, assuming that Kapanen wasn't the only piece involved and the value was more or less equal? What I'm really curious about is whether or not the relatively rapid emergence of Kyrou, Thompson, Kostin, and Thomas as potential RW options down the line make Kapanen a less appealing trade target. Does your opinion change if a 2018 first rounder is involved?

Kyrou, Thompson, Kostin and Thomas have no bearing on this trade. The prospects in question are Dunn, Walman, and Mikkola. None are 20 minutes per game in all situations ready. As such, I pass now and a I pass then. If we find an external replacement for JBo for less cost than what Kapanene plus whatever else, then I take the deal now and then. Kyrou et al are not guaranteed. If you can get another young gun in the barrel, you do it in case the other misfire, but not at the expense of decimating your left side D.

 

[The Note in MI]

I think in some move this year we see a roster player or two moved for a 2018 first. Too deep a draft to miss out on. I'd move jbo to TOR in a heartbeat. Though I can't say I would know what return he's worth. I would think at least a first.

 

[Dbrownss]

Hasn't Jbo said he's not interested in playing for one of the canadian teams due to the media?

Unless Eddy takes another step forward, I dont see them moving Jbo.

 

[simon IC]

I think it is a little premature to be considering JBo trade proposals. Even if one of Dunn/Walman make the team out of camp, (Which I think is unlikely, sorry. ), the player being replaced is Gunnarson, not JBo. I like the idea of getting back into the 2018 1st round too, but not at the expense of losing JBo for the playoffs without an adequate replacement.

 

[Davimir Tarablad]

I'd honestly consider it almost a guarantee that one of Dunn/Walman make the team, Gunnarsson was scratched a fair bit this past season, and the lack of offense from the left side makes it even more likely that there's one of them on the team. They can also be sheltered and eased into their role since Petro/Parayko pairings will take the heavy defensive assignments.

As for moving Bouw, Ed would most certainly have to maintain his level of play from the playoffs in order to consider it. And if anything, I think it'd likely be an offseason move such that he's around for the playoffs.

And if that becomes the case, I would personally prefer to trade for picks. Our system is stocked with guys that'll be NHL ready in the next year or two, there wouldn't be much room for another. Only reason to be trading for prospects instead of picks is if a move is made for Tavares using a bunch of prospects.

 

[simon IC]

I would just like to clarify, I am in no way down on Dunn or Walman. They are both excellent prospects and I am thrilled to have them in our system! I just not as convinced as some that either one is ready for NHL action. From what I have observed from Walman at Traverse and Dunn with the Wolves, (admittedly a small sample size), I don't see that either of them possess the defensive awareness to play in the big league. I do realize we need more offense from our LD, but I don't think it is so critical that we need to infuse that offense immediately from rookies that clearly would be defensive liabilities. Having said that, I honestly hope I am proven wrong, and that one of them wins a job out camp. I just doubt it. Perhaps by mid season ...

 

[rumrokh]

It doesn't make any sense to move Bouwmeester for picks unless it comes right before another move that adds salary.

The idea that you have to make room for young players is overblown. Certainly there are times when players higher up the ladder become redundant and it makes more sense to get assets for them and give icetime to growing young players. But those players have to actually become redundant first. Bouwmeester isn't close to redundant on the Blues, so the fantasy of trading him for a draft pick basically revolves around the gap in the return he might get and the return Gunnarsson might get. Unfortunately, there's an accompanying gap in actual on-ice value to the team.

Edmundson was really good in the playoffs, but unless Edmundson stays at that level in the regular season and Dunn has a Calder finalist season, the Blues are not ready for their left side to be Edmundson, Gunnarsson, Dunn. Smart money is on neither of those things happening.

 

[BleedBlue14]

Personally I would entertain the trade. To me moving J Bo is a deal for the TDL or next off season. As far down as I am on him our internal replacements haven't proven really anything aside from Eddy. I'm very high on dunn and I think getting a left handed offensive minded Defenseman would be a fresh change of scenery but J Bo is extremely steady defensively and our team is ready to compete now.

Now if Tavares is available I'll take the gamble on Kap, and one of the two being able to eat the minutes because my god a lineup like this:

Schwartz - Stas - Tank
Fabbri - JT - Schenn
Steen - Sobotka - Berglund
Barb - Brodz -Kapanen

Would make an extreme amount of damage throughout the season and playoffs.

 

[BangarangxRufio]

Personally I would entertain the trade. To me moving J Bo is a deal for the TDL or next off season. As far down as I am on him our internal replacements haven't proven really anything aside from Eddy. I'm very high on dunn and I think getting a left handed offensive minded Defenseman would be a fresh change of scenery but J Bo is extremely steady defensively and our team is ready to compete now.

Now if Tavares is available I'll take the gamble on Kap, and one of the two being able to eat the minutes because my god a lineup like this:

Schwartz - Stas - Tank
Fabbri - JT - Schenn
Steen - Sobotka - Berglund
Barb - Brodz -Kapanen

Would make an extreme amount of damage throughout the season and playoffs.

Are you suggesting that if we get JT he wont center 91? because that is LUDAcris. and that if we somehow got Kapanen he would be a 4th liner for us!? If we get both of those people we wont have Schwartz&Fabbri...one will go in a trade back and possibly BBshv

 

[Dbrownss]

Are you suggesting that if we get JT he wont center 91? because that is LUDAcris. and that if we somehow got Kapanen he would be a 4th liner for us!? If we get both of those people we wont have Schwartz&Fabbri...one will go in a trade back and possibly BBshv

No....no they wouldn't be on the block. JT is a pending UFA and Kapanen is would go for Boumeester in this given scenerio.

 

[BangarangxRufio]

No....no they wouldn't be on the block. JT is a pending UFA and Kapanen is would go for Boumeester in this given scenerio.

JT wont go for parts... just wont.. it will take a mix of NHL and AHL talent to trade for him Pending UFA or not. You dont get a discount on a Franchise player like you do if you are trying to get one of the pending UFA I see the wanting Fabbri or schwartz,+nhl ready prospect+maybe a pick at minimum. maybe we get lucky and they take BBshv+TT/Schmaltz/Walman/dunn+ but i would think it would be a Bigger key piece to even be invited to the dance. I wonder how much the Duchene trade could impact the demand for JT...do you guys think that if Duchene is traded for much less than anticipated that it could carry ramifications towards JT (not that they are the same level player)

 

[Dbrownss]

JT wont go for parts... just wont.. it will take a mix of NHL and AHL talent to trade for him Pending UFA or not. You dont get a discount on a Franchise player like you do if you are trying to get one of the pending UFA I see the wanting Fabbri or schwartz,+nhl ready prospect+maybe a pick at minimum. maybe we get lucky and they take BBshv+TT/Schmaltz/Walman/dunn+ but i would think it would be a Bigger key piece to even be invited to the dance. I wonder how much the Duchene trade could impact the demand for JT...do you guys think that if Duchene is traded for much less than anticipated that it could carry ramifications towards JT (not that they are the same level player)

Where are these established rules at? Between his NTC+UFA status and future contract price, this isnt going to be a 30 team bidding war.

 

[BangarangxRufio]

Where are these established rules at? Between his NTC+UFA status and future contract price, this isnt going to be a 30 team bidding war.

i agree that it will be a limited bidding war, but do you honestly think that he is going to go for less than 17/15?! If he leaves, it will be a big return. And no there are no set rules for franchise players...that is why I would assume that the market will be very competitive(i.e. Mix of NHL/AHL talent)

@dbrownss what is your winning bid then?

 

[Dbrownss]

My bid would be a combination of 3/4 of our prospects+picks if they want them. Their choice in prospects. We will need to retain at least one of Dunn/Walman though

 

[BangarangxRufio]

My bid would be a combination of 3/4 of our prospects+picks if they want them.

are you assuming they are in a rebuild if JT leaves then? I think if they are, that could be a good offer, but if they want to compete it'll take more NHL level talent IMO.

 

[bleedblue1223]

are you assuming they are in a rebuild if JT leaves then? I think if they are, that could be a good offer, but if they want to compete it'll take more NHL level talent IMO.

That team without Tavares straight up sucks.

 

[The Note in MI]

I feel they lose jt they are 100>%in a rebuild.

 

[BangarangxRufio]

That team without Tavares straight up sucks.

oh i agree wholeheartedly, but do you think that a team will lose a Tavares level player and only want prospects/picks back? Maybe its just me, but it seems that they will want both Prospects and players...Anyone have a reference on the last "Franchise Player" traded and what the return was? besides Subban-Weber/Jones-Johansen straight up 1 for 1 types

 

[Dbrownss]

oh i agree wholeheartedly, but do you think that a team will lose a Tavares level player and only want prospects/picks back? Maybe its just me, but it seems that they will want both Prospects and players...Anyone have a reference on the last "Franchise Player" traded and what the return was? besides Subban-Weber/Jones-Johansen straight up 1 for 1 types

It really doesn't matter "what they want". Its what they can get that matters. There will not be a 1 for 1 because the other 2 scenarios invovled teams in similar positions. The Islanders can not replace JT, just that simple.

Im not saying your wrong for thinking roster+package. Just saying DA needs to keep our top 6 as it is and add JT to it. Im high on a few of our kids and Id say scouts are taking notice too.

Just for example....Thompson, Thomas, Schmaltz+19 1st.

That's 2 chances at a top 6 center that could grow into a 1c and a top 4 rhs dman. That's a pretty good haul.

 

[BleedBlue14]

No....no they wouldn't be on the block. JT is a pending UFA and Kapanen is would go for Boumeester in this given scenerio.

That was the premise of what I was saying. That JT would hit FA. It seems very unlike GS trades him but I mean that would be fine too. The whole point of what I was saying is that I didn't think JBo is expendable ATM unless JT is available and that's how we need to clear cap

 

[Stealth JD]

Tavares at the trade-deadline is not going to command a key roster-player, like Fabbri or Schwartz. He'd essentially be a classic, trade-deadline rental...albeit probably the most high profile and costly one to date. That said, it would be around prospects and picks, with maybe some NHL-depth thrown in for salary considerations (Berglund, Sobotka, Gunnarsson).

I'd be absolutely fine with losing Thompson, Walman, 2019 1st and salary mentioned above for a JT-rental. Even if he walks. That puts the Blues as the odds-on Cup favorites in my estimation. Gotta take that shot.

 

[The Note in MI]

That's huge overpayment for a rental jt. That closer to extended value.

I'd do Walman + 1st and maybe a later pick. That's it. Not a fan of betting the farm for a rental. For a long term signed jt sure.

 

[Dbrownss]

Anyone else notice that was always the package JR would mention when Tavares was brought up?

 

[simon IC]

I've been reading scouting reports about Kapanen. They all seem to praise his cerebral game and hockey sense. They also seem to be in agreement that he doesn't get involved physically. One interesting observation, is that he was 5'11" 180lbs when drafted. He's now 6'1" 185lbs, so he's grown, but he doesn't seem to have put on any muscle. I should watch a few highlights, I know, but from what I have read he seems like he might be a Finnish Eberle. I wouldn't trade him for JBo right now. Perhaps my opinion will change after a Kasperi plays full season with the Leafs. We will see.

 

[MortiestOfMortys]

I've been reading scouting reports about Kapanen. They all seem to praise his cerebral game and hockey sense. They also seem to be in agreement that he doesn't get involved physically. One interesting observation, is that he was 5'11" 180lbs when drafted. He's now 6'1" 185lbs, so he's grown, but he doesn't seem to have put on any muscle. I should watch a few highlights, I know, but from what I have read he seems like he might be a Finnish Eberle. I wouldn't trade him for JBo right now. Perhaps my opinion will change after a Kasperi plays full season with the Leafs. We will see.

I will never understand the hate the Eberle gets around here.