Blues Trade Proposals Part XX

[Ranksu]

What I don't understand is when people get so emotional over differing opinions.

This have also come to mind several times.

 

[Dbrownss]

This is 100% speculation and I don't even agree with it. A Shattenkirk package is easily good enough to land a 1st line center (even potential-wise, they don't have to be one at this moment). Whether one will be available is a different story. For example it depends if Edmonton wants to trade one of their guys or not, but nobody can tell me that Shattenkirk+ isn't good enough to get it done. They won't get a Pietrangelo caliber player for anyone other than McDavid or Hall so if their fans try asking for that it's laughable and that's their own problem if they won't accept it, and their defense will continue to be bad.

Top centers don't get traded often but when they do (Thornton, Seguin), they don't return a piece better than Shattenkirk. It's easily enough, it just depends on finding a willing partner if the Blues want to go that route. But like I said, I'm souring on the idea.

If by top center you mean a player like Giroux then yeah I agree and you can disregard this post, but I don't think that's fair to limit it to that small of a sample of players.

Well....a small sample of players is "elite 1c".

That's what I mean. Other then that it's a roll of the dice. The only guys that I can think of that might be moved and I mean that in the stretchiest of stretchy terms is Malkin, Giroux and.....that's it.


You have the next tier of RNH and Stepan, neither are the true 1c. RNH has had high quality wingers...is he really going to jump into the PPG pace here?

 

[EastonBlues22]

Here is my attempt to clarify the comment of Pietrangelo having limited offensive ability.

When I think of Pietrangelo offensively, I'm not just comparing him to current NHL players. I'm comparing him to any defenceman that ever played.

I'll be the first one to say that defensively Pie is currently a top 10 player in the league. If he was that plus as offensive as MacInnis then I would belong in the camp of people saying that he should never be traded.

That's just not the case and he will never be close to that. That's ok, he's a great defenceman and I'm glad he's a Blue.

My point remains the Blues have one superstar in Tarasenko, and he's locked up long term.

My opinion, (that's all it is) is the Blues have almost an obligation to bring in an elite center for the long term.

Maybe the Blues thought Stastny was a true elite center. If so in my opinion they were alone in their thinking. Again, I like Stastny but he's just not an elite center.

It's also my opinion that defense is overrated. There's absolutely nothing wrong with a solid defense but it's not how I'd ever build a franchise.

Again let me reiterate this point. All of the above is my opinion. It's fine to disagree. What I don't understand is when people get so emotional over differing opinions.

None of us on here will be swaying Army one way or the other.

To me I think the league covets Pietrangelo. He's locked up long term on a good contract. The Blues biggest need is an elite center. Pietrangelo is probably our biggest trading chip.

I'd love to see a poll of the Blues fans that follow the team's every move on whether they think with a healthy roster the Blues will win the cup. Not "can" they, but "will" they.

My answer would be no. I'd put a healthy wager I'd be in the majority of opinion on that.

Anyone who takes one specific team over the field at even odds is a fool.

I don't understand why you feel like the organization is obligated to get an elite center to play with Tarasenko. He's on pace for about 50 goals and 90 points without playing with a center of even Stastny's level. Last year he was on pace for 39 goals and 78 points primarily centered by Lehtera. He's been a goal-per-game player in the playoffs the last two years. He's doing just fine without an elite center.

Do you think his production increases significantly from where it is now if that happens? I think that's an unrealistic expectation myself. I don't have much interest in ripping a gigantic hole elsewhere in the team for some sort of incremental upgrade in production from our top line.

 

[Spektre]

Getting an elite center doesn't just give Tarasenko more potential points. It allows players to move down to the 2nd and 3rd lines and "should" increase their production given the fact they're no longer facing top pairing def.

Take Getzlaf away from Perry. Does Perry still produce? Yes but to think Getzlaf only increases Perry's #'s by an incremental amount would just be wrong.

Brett Hull produced without elite centers, but he did a lot better with one.

 

[EastonBlues22]

Hull wasn't completely incapable of creating his own shot, but his MO was predominantly to put himself in a scoring position first and then let the puck find him. His numbers went up when he played with guys who could get him the puck at the right time. That's not Tarasenko's offensive style.

Tarasenko doesn't need someone to feed him the puck. On the contrary, he seems to prefer having the puck on his stick when he's putting himself in scoring positions. I'm not sure that I see the two situations as being very analogous.

When healthy, or second and third lines should be more than talented enough to provide secondary scoring against other team's lower pairings:

Steen-Backes-Fabbri
Jaskin-Lehtera-Brouwer

Put a better center between Schwartz and Tarasenko to push Stastny down and you see:

Steen-Backes-Fabbri
Jaskin-Stastny-Brouwer

Or you're forced to put our best defensive center on the wing to keep from having to put Lehtera there:

Steen-Stastny-Backes
Jaskin/Brouwer-Lehtera-Fabbri

None of that looks so much better to me than what we currently have that it's worth giving up Shattenkirk or Pietrangelo.

That takes us back to having Tarasenko's line being a lot more productive, and I guess we'll have to agree to disagree there. I just don't see it improving enough to make up for the hit we're taking elsewhere.

 

[MissouriMook]

If the Blues can lose a 1st round pick for Miller then that option + Pie should at least be mulled over

I'm not advocating that we need to do so, but you bring up a valid point. A deal for a #1C (or even an upgrade on Stastny in that role) is likely going to cost you Lehtera as a replacement and your 1st round pick. And that's OK. As frustrating as it has been not to have had a #1 pick as often as we have recently, getting a developed center that is almost certainly better than the player you can draft at #21-#30 is exactly when you should trade the pick instead of using it.

I doubt Kopitar would be available, but if he does make it to free agency I would be OK throwing $9 million at him, maybe even a little bit more. In my mind,

Kopitar + Rattie (~$10M) > Backes + Brouwer (probably $11M on their next deals)

 

[MortiestOfMortys]

Let's just trade Tarasenko

 

[EastonBlues22]

I'm not advocating that we need to do so, but you bring up a valid point. A deal for a #1C (or even an upgrade on Stastny in that role) is likely going to cost you Lehtera as a replacement and your 1st round pick. And that's OK. As frustrating as it has been not to have had a #1 pick as often as we have recently, getting a developed center that is almost certainly better than the player you can draft at #21-#30 is exactly when you should trade the pick instead of using it.

I doubt Kopitar would be available, but if he does make it to free agency I would be OK throwing $9 million at him, maybe even a little bit more. In my mind,

Kopitar + Rattie (~$10M) > Backes + Brouwer (probably $11M on their next deals)

I tend not to agree with that sentiment, but I'd need to see a list of centers you would be OK trading a package of Pietrangelo + Lehtera + 1st for to be sure.

I'm guessing that list is going to be very small, and populated by guys that most would consider untouchable because the teams in question don't have an excess of elite centers to spare.

 

[BlueDream]

Let's just trade Tarasenko

Finally a legit idea in the midst of all this nonsense. Thank you.

 

[KirkOut]

Finally a legit idea in the midst of all this nonsense. Thank you.

I mean the Blues have never won a game beyond the first round with Tarasenko so it makes perfect sense to trade that non-winner. Or maybe that logic can only be applied to Pietrangelo et al.

 

[MissouriMook]

I tend not to agree with that sentiment, but I'd need to see a list of centers you would be OK trading a package of Pietrangelo + Lehtera + 1st for to be sure.

I should have been more clear given the Pietrangelo reference in the post I quoted. If a #1C (or an upgrade on Stastny) were available for Lehtera + 1st + ? then that would be a good reason to spend your 1st, but there are certainly very few centers that come to mind that would be worth 27+12+1st. Those that are worth that package aren't likely to be available at any price.

 

[PerryTurnbullfan]

Here is my attempt to clarify the comment of Pietrangelo having limited offensive ability.

When I think of Pietrangelo offensively, I'm not just comparing him to current NHL players. I'm comparing him to any defenceman that ever played.

I'll be the first one to say that defensively Pie is currently a top 10 player in the league. If he was that plus as offensive as MacInnis then I would belong in the camp of people saying that he should never be traded.

That's just not the case and he will never be close to that. That's ok, he's a great defenceman and I'm glad he's a Blue.

My point remains the Blues have one superstar in Tarasenko, and he's locked up long term.

My opinion, (that's all it is) is the Blues have almost an obligation to bring in an elite center for the long term.

Maybe the Blues thought Stastny was a true elite center. If so in my opinion they were alone in their thinking. Again, I like Stastny but he's just not an elite center.

It's also my opinion that defense is overrated. There's absolutely nothing wrong with a solid defense but it's not how I'd ever build a franchise.

Again let me reiterate this point. All of the above is my opinion. It's fine to disagree. What I don't understand is when people get so emotional over differing opinions.

None of us on here will be swaying Army one way or the other.

To me I think the league covets Pietrangelo. He's locked up long term on a good contract. The Blues biggest need is an elite center. Pietrangelo is probably our biggest trading chip.

I'd love to see a poll of the Blues fans that follow the team's every move on whether they think with a healthy roster the Blues will win the cup. Not "can" they, but "will" they.

My answer would be no. I'd put a healthy wager I'd be in the majority of opinion on that.

I don't disagree with this. I still think Petro is the player to trade potentially to land your 1C. An unsigned Shatty doesn't net that. I think the minutes can be spread amongst others without Petro here. Petro is just an unopened toolbox of talent that we may never see entirely opened. I'm convinced we don't win with the running around mistakes as they have cost us dearly in the last several games. Needs a stay at home partner or a brush up on how to play your position when your partner takes off. He's Petro. Teams will continue to scout and set the Blues up playing around his flaws. Not saying other d-men don't have them, but his creates a glaring hole in front of the net.

 

[cardsfan]

To NYI: Bouwmeester, Berglund
To StL: Eberle
To Edm: Hamonic, Sobotka/Rattie

 

[Vladys Gumption]

That is terrible. We don't need Eberle and it's certainly not worth giving up Bouwmeester, Berglund and Sobotka's rights for him.

 

[MortiestOfMortys]

While I'm in favor of those being trade pieces in general (Bouwmeester, Berglund, Sobotka/Rattie), using all three of them in a scenario where we only get a single player back would be a bad move. Especially if that player is Eberle, who is relatively redundant to what our team already has.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Army has been to 3 straight Columbus games and 2 straight Sharks games. Both teams have players he'd want to look at for Canada, so it could definitely be for that.

Although, if he's trying to pluck Johansen out of Columbus, I wouldn't complain. He's getting less ice time and demoted, so kind of a dangerous situation for Columbus. Torts could convince Johansen to want out.

 

[Note Worthy]

Army has been to 3 straight Columbus games and 2 straight Sharks games. Both teams have players he'd want to look at for Canada, so it could definitely be for that.

Although, if he's trying to pluck Johansen out of Columbus, I wouldn't complain. He's getting less ice time and demoted, so kind of a dangerous situation for Columbus. Torts could convince Johansen to want out.

That would be amazing. Almost too amazing to happen.

 

[Vladdy the Impaler]

Any chance of signing Stamkos in the offseason? I obviously don't think we have the cap space, but what if he signs here for a discount to play with Vladdy?

 

[EastonBlues22]

To NYI: Bouwmeester, Berglund
To StL: Eberle
To Edm: Hamonic, Sobotka/Rattie

I'm not very high on Eberle in general, and I'm even less high on him as a fit with how the Blues try to play the game.

Out of curiosity, though, if there's a value gap between Hamonic and Eberle, why are the Blues the ones making up the difference? That doesn't make any sense to me.

 

[EastonBlues22]

Any chance of signing Stamkos in the offseason? I obviously don't think we have the cap space, but what if he signs here for a discount to play with Vladdy?

There's always a "chance", but realistically, no.

He'll basically be able to name his price, and he'll have his pick of multiple choice destinations...all of which will have multiple high end players to play with. I don't see him taking much of a discount, and I don't see the Blues having much of a chance at him (if they pursue him at all).