Blues Trade Proposals Part XIII

[bleedblue1223]

In these scenarios, what would lines look like this year and next if you had to take a random crack at it

This year:

Schwartz-Lehtera-Tarasenko
Steen-Stastny-Eberle
Paajarvi/Lindstrom-Backes-Oshie
Ott-Lapierre-Reaves

Possible return of Sobotka.

Next year would be putting in Fabbri for the 3rd line LW spot, but Fabbri would probably be with Stastny and Eberle and to shelter him with offensive minutes in his rookie season.

This is where things get interesting though. I can crunch some numbers later when I have more time. My gut says Oshie would still have to go and Jaskin/Rattie would slot in. I would hope they dump Ott, and then maybe you could hold onto Oshie for another year. Asset management wise, you would think about trading Backes though to get assets in return, instead of letting him walk as a free agent, especially since he can get good value, a very similar return to Kesler.

After that, it's very likely that Backes and Oshie will both be gone. The cap would have to rise a good amount and we would have to become profitable for us to actually afford it. Whent the Schwartz, Lehtera, and Tarasenko extensions kick in, we will have a different looking team.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Yeah, and if you know Berglund will be gone in the offseason and want another scorer, then you might as well just make the move now if that's what Army feels we'll need in the postseason.

Going from Berglund and Lindstrom to Eberle and Jaskin in our top 9 would be an upgrade. We'd likely lose Rattie, but that doesn't affect our current team, nor does that really hurt us at all in the future given the circumstances.

So, yeah, being #1 in the Central makes me think Armstrong won't give up any core pieces like Oshie yet, but a move around Berglund would definitely be alright with me, and give Eberle enough time to get used to the team.

Right. If teams like Edmonton are dead-set on core pieces like Oshie, I see Army being patient as usual, but I do think he will be a bit more aggressive than in the past. He usually gets business done a week before the deadline, but I think he'll plan even earlier this year.

Maybe in years past he thought that the current team could get it done with a little tweak, but now he knows the exact spot to fill and that's offense. Regular season position would change that and even the production of the current players won't change that. The only way this offense is playoff-approved is if Steen goes on his hot streak right when the playoffs start, and that's something you don't bank on.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Now, a big intersting part in this would be if we move for Yak instead. Edmonton fans said he shows a desire to play defense and works hard, so he could be more coachable from that standpoint. He's cheap and we'd control his extension. And we are a very friendly Russian environment, so he'd feel comfortable here IMO.

 

[Alklha]

Yakupov would obviously get a bridge deal, and we could basically set a ceiling on any future long term deal with what we gave Tarasenko. There seems to be a train of thought that Eberle is valued just behind Hall and RNH, which does make me wonder what Yakupov would cost.

Is Berglund & Rattie a solid starting point? Berglund, Pääjärvi & Rattie? Berglund, Rattie & Binnington?

It's more prospects though, and they claim to be looking for immediate help.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Yakupov's value would be somewhat close to Turris', different situation, but at least as a player, they are comparable. Would Edmonton sell that low?

Yakupov's asset cost would be low enough that it would be worth taking a gamble on.

 

[Vincenzo Arelliti]

Yak would mean we get to keep Oshie and Backes? Berglund straight up for Yak - maybe a +? Let's do it.

Schwartz - Lehtera - Tarasenko
Steen - Stastny - Yakupov
Lindstrom (Sobotka) - Backes - Oshie

Getting Sobotka will be key if Berglund is gone. We will NEED center depth in case of injuries, and having a copy of Lehtera F.O. for the playoffs is not a bad thing.

Can you say stacked?

 

[bleedblue1223]

We'd be able to keep Oshie and Backes for this season regardless. I think one would probably be gone for next season, and both would be gone the season after IMO, unless Backes really wants to stay. I know he's our captain, but he's a Newport client as well, so my hopes aren't high at all.

They don't have a long future because at the start of 16-17, the STL line will all be on their extensions, and we know 2 of them will be pretty significant and Lehtera's has the potential to be right behind them.

 

[tfriede2]

Yak would mean we get to keep Oshie and Backes? Berglund straight up for Yak - maybe a +? Let's do it.

Schwartz - Lehtera - Tarasenko
Steen - Stastny - Yakupov
Lindstrom (Sobotka) - Backes - Oshie

Getting Sobotka will be key if Berglund is gone. We will NEED center depth in case of injuries, and having a copy of Lehtera F.O. for the playoffs is not a bad thing.

Can you say stacked?

Yeesh, we're not getting a 1st overall pick for Berglund. At the very least, it would need to be Berglund, Rattie, and 2016 1st, which I would easily do.

And replace Lindstrom with Fabbri. Then that lineup looks Fabbrilous.

 

[Vincenzo Arelliti]

Yeesh, we're not getting a 1st overall pick for Berglund. At the very least, it would need to be Berglund, Rattie, and 2016 1st, which I would easily do.

I'm not sure Yak's point production is good enough for the 1st. Also, Edmonton is going to be in a tight spot to sell him high given the team's overall performance.

 

[tfriede2]

I'm not sure Yak's point production is good enough for the 1st. Also, Edmonton is going to be in a tight spot to sell him high given the team's overall performance.

Then they should just hold on to him. Why sell low? We have the assets to acquire him, but Edmonton isn't in a position to settle for peanuts.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Berglund+Rattie would be the low-end. Berglund+Rattie+1st would be the high-end. Really hard to gauge his value, especially since that it is at it's lowest, you'd have to overpay a bit to get Edmonton to give up on him.

If Edmonton is willing to talk Yakupov, then I think it's possible because that is a sign that they are willing to give up on him, not a sign of them trying to cash in on him.

Binnington is also another prospect they could definitely use that we could get away with moving. It would be nice to hold on to him to see if he can get better than Allen and to continue to have a cheap tandem in the future, but I'd be fine including him in the right deal.

 

[Felix]

if we deal for Eberle in future we;ll have to clear cap space and a pair of Stastny and Eberly would need someone vore physical and less costly on their LW...
So, depending on progress of Fabri and Berglund's play, I envisage Steen trade...
BTW, anyone knows details of his NTC?

 

[Alklha]

if we deal for Eberle in future we;ll have to clear cap space and a pair of Stastny and Eberly would need someone vore physical and less costly on their LW...
So, depending on progress of Fabri and Berglund's play, I envisage Steen trade...
BTW, anyone knows details of his NTC?

Steen has a full NTC.

Even ignoring the NTC, I still think that Oshie is more likely to be moved than Steen. If we do acquire an Eberle type player, then there will be more questions about Backes future in the summer. I'd say Steen is the safest of the three.

 

[bleedblue1223]

And it also build off of what Friedman reported earlier in the season that Schwartz, Tarasenko, Stastny, Steen, and Jaskin are part of the group of untradeables, but Backes and Oshie were not on that list. I'm guessing Jaskin was included because Buffalo and Ottawa asked for him in all the trade talks, and we always said we aren't trading him and Friedman heard that. That's the only reason I can think of that Friedman would've included Jaskin in that part of his article.

The trade returns of Backes and Oshie will be critical to sustained success in the future.

 

[BlueDream]

And if Backes and Oshie eventually have to be moved, it just needs to be for players that are younger and play a similar style as them, and some futures.

If we got Eberle, we'd have an unreal top 6 with him, Stastny, Steen, Schwartz, Lehtera, and Tarasenko. We haven't had that amount of skill in forever.

But because of that, we'd really need to load up the 3rd-line with some grit and toughness.

 

[Oberyn]

It would he interesting if Armstrong goes the Philly route where they traded Carter and Richards for younger players and picks, except it would be Oshie and Backes for us.

 

[bleedblue1223]

And the good thing is, we have a team that wouldn't miss a beat, so if we traded for a guy like Voracek, Simmonds, or Schenn, we could wait through their development until they hit their potential.

 

[Frenzy31]

1 goal? It is 10 games! He is 1-6-7 in those, and the Oilers are getting destroyed by Western Conference teams (1 point in 11 games). If we're being selective with stats, then he is 10-11-21 in 24 games against the Central since realignment.

That is right. They are being destroyed by Western Conference teams. Which is a good reason to not bring him in. He has 14 points in 20 games.

Pure offense forward who will put up 50 points? His career average 28-37-65 every 82 games. It's true that is in a more offensive system, but let's not downplay what he has done in a little under 300 NHL games at 24.

It isn't just the system. In Edmonton he plays will Hall and on the top PP. He wont get that in St. Louis. So, he will see a drop in his production. He is getting close to 20 minutes a game. He will likely get 17 or so here. All of that will cause him to see a drop in production.

Let's take a look at this from a different perspective. Perron - had a career year last year playing for Edmonton. One of things almost all of us fans on this board have agreed on is that he wouldn't produce that way as a member of the Blues. I don't think is unreasonable to say Eberle will be a 50 point player. How many Blues players have hit 65 points in the last few years? How many hit 50?

I'm not the biggest fan of Eberle, but there isn't a comparison to be made with Stewart. Eberle can read the game, he'll get goals wherever he goes. Is Eberle a lost cause when it comes to 2-way play? I don't know, but if we can get him on the cheap then I'd rather have his pure offensive game on a line with Steen and Stastny than Berglund's pure defensive game.

Stewart scored plenty of goals for us. I compare him to Eberle for one reason. Fans here felt he was worthless when he wasn't producing offense (and he was - especially the last few months). Eberle, when he isn't producing will also fall into this category. He isn't going to go get the puck back (Schwartz, Steen), he doesn't have a motor that runs all game (Oshie/Soby). He isn't going to win board battles or block a ton of shots. He's not going to hit people.....

As for 2 way play. I have no idea. Hell, he could become a very good player.

Trading him for Berglund is one thing. What is being proposed, Oshie and Berglund or even just Oshie is something that I am very much against - I would much rather have Oshies play then the extra 5 points Eberle will give us.

I have no real problem trading Berglund + for Eberle. I would keep Ott, just in case we run into injury issues at center.

 

[bleedblue1223]

The problem with Stewart is he scored goals in very specific ways that didn't work in our system. He needs a rushing offense with a very good playmaking center that likes to work behind the net like Stastny did in Colorado.

Eberle works more like a natural goal-scorer by finding the open spots, which would work in our offense, so I'd feel confident about his production translating over.

 

[bleedblue1223]

From an Edmonton poster on where Yakupov would be best at.

In his rookie year he was pretty solid on the powerplay uncorking one-timers. His timing is off this season, at least in games. He can be guilty of trying to do too much himself, but he's got some good instincts battling along the boards and a good work ethic. If you can put him on a line that forechecks hard and has skill to go along he could be dynamite. You know, the style employed by pretty much every good western conference team...

So, on the PP if you've got a good threat from the point to open up seam passes and a solid playmaker he's a good fit. 5 on 5, I think he's best on a physical puck possession line.

In theory, he sounds like he could be a gamble that could really payoff.

 

[Oberyn]

I'd like to see a Steen-Stastny-Yakupov line.

 

[Alklha]

Stewart scored plenty of goals for us. I compare him to Eberle for one reason. Fans here felt he was worthless when he wasn't producing offense (and he was - especially the last few months). Eberle, when he isn't producing will also fall into this category. He isn't going to go get the puck back (Schwartz, Steen), he doesn't have a motor that runs all game (Oshie/Soby). He isn't going to win board battles or block a ton of shots. He's not going to hit people.....

As for 2 way play. I have no idea. Hell, he could become a very good player.

Trading him for Berglund is one thing. What is being proposed, Oshie and Berglund or even just Oshie is something that I am very much against - I would much rather have Oshies play then the extra 5 points Eberle will give us.

I have no real problem trading Berglund + for Eberle. I would keep Ott, just in case we run into injury issues at center.

Fair enough, but Eberle actually understands the game. Stewart doesn't. There is a decent chance he'll improve his overall play when he gets out of Edmonton, it's just how much room for improvement there is in his game.

You talk about his time on the PP, he has 2 PP point this season. So his production isn't likely to fall off a cliff with reduced PP time. Also, with the top opposition defensive pairing likely out against Tarasenko, does that create better matchups for Eberle?

It isn't all a 1 way street that says his production falls.

I'd like to see a Steen-Stastny-Yakupov line.

As would I.

Just throwing it out there, not saying there is anything to it... but I wonder how eager Yakupov will be to sign an extension in Edmonton. There was the talk he wanted out at the start of last year, and with the organisation remaining a disaster, I wonder if he'll remain committed.

 

[Dbrownss]

I really like Yak over Eberle when the future is taken into consideration.

POs wise...both are green so that "may" be a wash. Eberle would force too much salary moving in the future

 

[Frenzy31]

Fair enough, but Eberle actually understands the game. Stewart doesn't. There is a decent chance he'll improve his overall play when he gets out of Edmonton, it's just how much room for improvement there is in his game.

You talk about his time on the PP, he has 2 PP point this season. So his production isn't likely to fall off a cliff with reduced PP time. Also, with the top opposition defensive pairing likely out against Tarasenko, does that create better matchups for Eberle?

It isn't all a 1 way street that says his production falls.

It is when you really look at the numbers. He would be losing over 3 minutes of playing time per game. (16 and change now (ES) to 13 (PS gets this for us at even strength)) Assuming he still get 3 minutes of PP time. We are looking at 30 minutes less of PT per 10 games. (FOR HIM THAT IS A 1.5 games - based on 20 minutes of PT).

In truth, he would be on the ice (total ice time ) for a 70 game season based on minutes if he was on our 2nd line. Even if his production stayed the same, he doesn't sniff 65 points. THIS IS SOMETHING THAT WE AS FANS FLAT OUT MISS. Playing time is huge over the course of a season. PP time is huge and when you lose both, production goes down.

And that is the fundamental problem with Edmonton. Most teams have 65 point wingers. But he is soft. Doesn't work in the dzone, doesn't win board battles, doesn't back check, and brings very few intangibles. Yes, he is very good in the offensive zone, but you need more then that.

 

[Celtic Note]

It is when you really look at the numbers. He would be losing over 3 minutes of playing time per game. (16 and change now (ES) to 13 (PS gets this for us at even strength)) Assuming he still get 3 minutes of PP time. We are looking at 30 minutes less of PT per 10 games. (FOR HIM THAT IS A 1.5 games - based on 20 minutes of PT).

In truth, he would be on the ice (total ice time ) for a 70 game season based on minutes if he was on our 2nd line. Even if his production stayed the same, he doesn't sniff 65 points. THIS IS SOMETHING THAT WE AS FANS FLAT OUT MISS. Playing time is huge over the course of a season. PP time is huge and when you lose both, production goes down.

And that is the fundamental problem with Edmonton. Most teams have 65 point wingers. But he is soft. Doesn't work in the dzone, doesn't win board battles, doesn't back check, and brings very few intangibles. Yes, he is very good in the offensive zone, but you need more then that.

I firmly agree.

Ultimately you want a player that is a net positive in terms of goals scored while on the ice versus goals allowed. Eberle is one of those players that will always be less desirable than his point totals indicate. He just does not contribute enough positives game in and game out to make up for his deficiencies.

Now before someone says he is on a crappy team and his +/- reflects that, I want people to realize I am not basing this assessment by looking at his statistical line. I am using my assessment of the player in the games where I have seen him play to see how his stats relate to what I see in game. Eberle is obviously one of those guys who is going to give up more than he produces. The eye test more than reflects this. He is a reason his line under performs, rather than an innocent bystander.

Just as a follow up, do people feel like a prime Brad Boyes helps or hurts our team right now? You know, the guy with 72 points, but a -20 on a 92 point, 0+/- Blues team.