Blues Trade Proposals 2018-2019

[EastonBlues22]

False accusations happen all the time. As do people who think they have a case and just don't. How can they know that she posted 1000 social media messages across different usernames? He's a famous athlete and its the internet. Hundreds of people who don't know him are going to say some messed up stuff. I doubt Instagram is handing over the IP addresses or places of origin for all of them without a court order. So how did she pick out the thousand Hoffman's GF said amongst the 10,000s of crappy things people say about him? It is just as likely that Mrs Karlsson is the bully as it is that Hoffman's GF. The court's and the threat for a lawsuit can and have been used by abusers. God forbid our court system ever decides to give the benefit of the doubt to the plaintiff because they took the time to file a case. I'm not saying that's the situation. I am saying we have an accusation which may be 100% true, 100% false or anywhere in between.

You think it's "just as likely" that someone who went through the trauma of a stillborn birth, and who subsequently endured a long period of cyber-bulling regarding that traumatic event, is somehow exploiting this "opportunity" to turn around and bully someone else?

I disagree.

Strongly.

Mrs. Karlsson might not be right, but that doesn't mean it's equally likely that her accusation is malicious, or even spurious.

 

[TruBlu]

You think it's "just as likely" that someone who went through the trauma of a stillborn birth, and who subsequently endured a long period of cyber-bulling regarding that traumatic event, is somehow exploiting this "opportunity" to turn around and bully someone else?

I disagree.

Strongly.

Mrs. Karlsson might not be right, but that doesn't mean it's equally likely that her accusation is malicious, or even spurious.

I don't think he necessarily meant to use the word "bully" in regards to her, but an experience like that sometimes makes people look for someone to blame. I certainly hope that this wasn't done out of haste, and that there is sufficient proof. I can definitively say that orders of protection, stalking orders, etc., are being handed out like candy these days. I've even seen judges hand out orders of protection to couples where both of them are the complainant and the respondent at the same time.

 

[Thallis]

False accusations happen all the time. As do people who think they have a case and just don't. How can they know that she posted 1000 social media messages across different usernames? He's a famous athlete and its the internet. Hundreds of people who don't know him are going to say some messed up stuff. I doubt Instagram is handing over the IP addresses or places of origin for all of them without a court order. So how did she pick out the thousand Hoffman's GF said amongst the 10,000s of crappy things people say about him? It is just as likely that Mrs Karlsson is the bully as it is that Hoffman's GF. The court's and the threat for a lawsuit can and have been used by abusers. God forbid our court system ever decides to give the benefit of the doubt to the plaintiff because they took the time to file a case. I'm not saying that's the situation. I am saying we have an accusation which may be 100% true, 100% false or anywhere in between.

No, but Mrs. Hammond, LaBarbera, and Turris have come out in support of Melinda saying that she's been fixated on her specifically and corroborating the story. It's not definitive proof, but it's definitely credible with others backing her up. That makes it much less likely she's lying. Given the Pietrangelo situation last year, I think we don't touch Hoffman with a 10 foot pole now.

 

[Shwabeal]

I mentioned this in the main board thread, but the protection order could have simply been allowed for “Monika Caryk has uttered numerous statements wishing my unborn child dead,” says Melinda Karlsson’s sworn statement to the court." Any corroborating statement from a friend could give the court just cause to issue that order. Well, that, along with Melinda's conviction that this harassment is coming from Hoffman's SO. In no way does it mean it was definitely Caryk, but it wouldn't be unreasonable to give that kind of order for something like that.

If I had to guess, she's definitely guilty. IF that quote from Karlsson's wife is true, it would definitely lead credence to Hoffman's gf doing something like that because she is clearly not right in the head. As for how this relates to trading for Hoffman, I wouldn't be 100% against it, but I'd be pretty wary of doing so. Since he's defended her "150%," I'd like to think that he had absolutely no clue or knows that it wasn't her. If it's the former, I'd like to think that he'd drop her like a hot potato the second it came out. If it does come out that it was her, and he doesn't ditch her, there is a serious character flaw there and having him and her around a locker room would be detrimental to a team.

If I'm DA, I'm calling and making what Senators fans on here would call "an insulting offer" and seeing what kind of response I get. If you could get him for just a 1st next year or this years 2nd + a small sweetener, I would take the chance that it isn't true and/or he had no clue.

 

[Edgar Carrow]

You think it's "just as likely" that someone who went through the trauma of a stillborn birth, and who subsequently endured a long period of cyber-bulling regarding that traumatic event, is somehow exploiting this "opportunity" to turn around and bully someone else?

I disagree.

Strongly.

Mrs. Karlsson might not be right, but that doesn't mean it's equally likely that her accusation is malicious, or even spurious.

You think someone who "went through trauma" is incapable of bullying someone?

I disagree.

Strongly.

Don't know any of the people involved and no evidence has been presented to support anything from either side. Hoffman says it's not true; Karlsson's wife says it is. No matter who's in the wrong here, I won't be surprised when the truth comes out.

 

[Itsnotatrap]

Liut making some comments on it tonight

Brennan: Senators will suffer greatly until truth comes out in the Karlsson-Hoffman story

 

[EastonBlues22]

You think someone who "went through trauma" is incapable of bullying someone?

I disagree.

Strongly.

Don't know any of the people involved and no evidence has been presented to support anything from either side. Hoffman says it's not true; Karlsson's wife says it is. No matter who's in the wrong here, I won't be surprised when the truth comes out.

There's a vast difference between something being possible and something being equally likely, so let's not pretend the two things are the same.

You don't know anyone involved, but a number of people who do know both parties and who would reasonably be expected to know something about what happened have chimed in, and their stories so far have been unanimously supporting one version of the events. That doesn't necessarily mean that version of the events is true, but there's a difference between acknowledging that possibility and assuming that the other completely unsupported version of events is equally likely to be true.

 

[EastonBlues22]

I don't think he necessarily meant to use the word "bully" in regards to her, but an experience like that sometimes makes people look for someone to blame. I certainly hope that this wasn't done out of haste, and that there is sufficient proof. I can definitively say that orders of protection, stalking orders, etc., are being handed out like candy these days. I've even seen judges hand out orders of protection to couples where both of them are the complainant and the respondent at the same time.

It took six months and 1000+ messages for them to take action, or more than five messages a day for over 180 days, so I think it's unlikely that this was done in haste. That's a lot of abuse to put up with before taking action.

I don't know what the evidence currently is or where it will lead. Without knowing that, it seems silly to assume (as in the court of public opinion) that one party is right and that one is wrong. I actually agree with Mo1 there. I just disagree that both sides of the story are "equally likely" to be true given what we know, and I think that this situation should not be completely discounted/ignored by GMs who are considering trading for Hoffman.

 

[stl76]

If I'm DA, I'm calling and making what Senators fans on here would call "an insulting offer" and seeing what kind of response I get. If you could get him for just a 1st next year or this years 2nd + a small sweetener, I would take the chance that it isn't true and/or he had no clue.

f*** that. We have to re-sign Alex Pietrangelo soon. The same Alex Pietrangelo who, mere months earlier, tragically had an incident extremely similar to the one that Hoffman's fiance is accused of taunting/harrassing the Karlssons about...again, f*** that. True or not, Hoffman is just not worth it IMO.

I'm sure some team will get Hoffman for cheap, and he'll probably score 30+ goals, and hell maybe he and his wife are both 150% innocent...still, no thank you.

 

[Majorityof1]

It took six months and 1000+ messages for them to take action, or more than five messages a day for over 180 days, so I think it's unlikely that this was done in haste. That's a lot of abuse to put up with before taking action.

I don't know what the evidence currently is or where it will lead. Without knowing that, it seems silly to assume (as in the court of public opinion) that one party is right and that one is wrong. I actually agree with Mo1 there. I just disagree that both sides of the story are "equally likely" to be true given what we know, and I think that this situation should not be completely discounted/ignored by GMs who are considering trading for Hoffman.

The bolded is all I was really trying to say. I didn't really mean "just as likely" to equate exact percentages, but only to say their is a chance at both. Without knowing more evidence and hearing from the other side, I cannot weight the relative chances of either. Both are non-zero chances given the information at hand and both chances can drastically change as more information comes to light. in that respect they are equal, but not in the respect of having the same situation it happens 50 times one way and 50 times another.

 

[EastonBlues22]

The bolded is all I was really trying to say. I didn't really mean "just as likely" to equate exact percentages, but only to say their is a chance at both. Without knowing more evidence and hearing from the other side, I cannot weight the relative chances of either. Both are non-zero chances given the information at hand and both chances can drastically change as more information comes to light. in that respect they are equal, but not in the respect of having the same situation it happens 50 times one way and 50 times another.

I didn't pick that up from how you originally phrased it, but fair enough, and I agree.

 

[Edgar Carrow]

There's a vast difference between something being possible and something being equally likely, so let's not pretend the two things are the same.

You don't know anyone involved, but a number of people who do know both parties and who would reasonably be expected to know something about what happened have chimed in, and their stories so far have been unanimously supporting one version of the events. That doesn't necessarily mean that version of the events is true, but there's a difference between acknowledging that possibility and assuming that the other completely unsupported version of events is equally likely to be true.

I've seen Hoffman come out saying it's not true and that they are willing to cooperate, but if you want to pretend he didn't, I guess that's fine.

I'm aware of Marlee Hammond's tweet saying the story is unsurprising, but I'm not aware of (have been looking) "a number of people" supporting the Karlssons' version of the story. Hammond's tweet doesn't really even support the accusations, she just says the story is unsurprising.

 

[TruBlu]

I agree that it kind of taints the idea of getting Hoffman. I don't want any locker room issues here. Unfortunately, there's no way to take all of this back, and I hate the court of public opinion where people are more interested in finding someone guilty than they are of hearing the truth.

 

[Majorityof1]

I didn't pick that up from how you originally phrased it, but fair enough, and I agree.

That's probably because I didn't say it very clearly. As I stated in length in the other thread the topic brings up personal memories. I already think too fast for my fingers to type leading to typos and imperfect phrasing. On this topic, it was even more so.

 

[BleedBlue14]

Somewhere in all of this drama Habs fans rejoice as Patches becomes a little more desirable of a target. I really can't imagine any team would want to take in Hoffman right now. I can't imagine many teams would even after the fact, unless somehow it is proven that Hoffman and his girlfriend were being framed for this situation but I just don't see it as likely that they will be able to prove their innocence completely. Gotta think if this is true Hoffman is probably done right?

 

[Alklha]

Somewhere in all of this drama Habs fans rejoice as Patches becomes a little more desirable of a target. I really can't imagine any team would want to take in Hoffman right now. I can't imagine many teams would even after the fact, unless somehow it is proven that Hoffman and his girlfriend were being framed for this situation but I just don't see it as likely that they will be able to prove their innocence completely. Gotta think if this is true Hoffman is probably done right?

Even if she isn't behind the tweets, there is too much smoke about other issues that made them think it was her.

The only way that I can see a GM trading for him is if he has the blessing of the players. This isn't a situation where he can judge it himself and then just let it play out.

Hoffman is done? In Ottawa? Difficult to see him being back. Judging from the comments from the partners of past Sens players, it looks pretty clear that the partners of the current players will have a similar sentiment towards his fiancée. Hoffman himself isn't really connected to this yet, and he can certainly save himself by ditching her and starting new elsewhere. We don't know what's going on with him, he might be totally blinded by his relationship to her or there might be some sort of unhealthy dynamic going on.

 

[TruBlu]

I don't think Hoffman will be done if his gf does indeed be proven to be behind it. He's too good of a player for him to be blacklisted. I do think it would keep him from being on a contender team, though. Teams on the cusp of being legitimate contenders won't want to take a chance on having any locker room issues. The thing I would remind everyone is that these orders of protection nowadays are handed out like candy. There is a very low level of "suspicion" involved to get one. It's certainly not anywhere near the level of proof needed for a criminal conviction. It is basically a way for the courts to show that they are doing something when a complaint is made. It's more of a CYA type thing. I'd wait for the criminal investigation to conclude before I developed an opinion as to guilt.

 

[BleedBlue14]

Even if she isn't behind the tweets, there is too much smoke about other issues that made them think it was her.

The only way that I can see a GM trading for him is if he has the blessing of the players. This isn't a situation where he can judge it himself and then just let it play out.

Hoffman is done? In Ottawa? Difficult to see him being back. Judging from the comments from the partners of past Sens players, it looks pretty clear that the partners of the current players will have a similar sentiment towards his fiancée. Hoffman himself isn't really connected to this yet, and he can certainly save himself by ditching her and starting new elsewhere. We don't know what's going on with him, he might be totally blinded by his relationship to her or there might be some sort of unhealthy dynamic going on.

Honestly meant his career. And yeah I was reading into some of the other instances last night, it honestly seems pretty likely but at the same time I guess you never know. I just don't see how an NHL GM goes to his players and tries to sell the decision to them as oh well you never know it could be false. It also seems like EK is a fairly well-liked player around the league, not that it should really matter in a situation of this magnitude and pure cruelty all that much but I just don't buy Hoffman is going to fit in with way to many locker rooms at this point anymore. He could really use a Jerry Jones type of owner, I just don't see that in the NHL

 

[EastonBlues22]

I've seen Hoffman come out saying it's not true and that they are willing to cooperate, but if you want to pretend he didn't, I guess that's fine.

I'm aware of Marlee Hammond's tweet saying the story is unsurprising, but I'm not aware of (have been looking) "a number of people" supporting the Karlssons' version of the story. Hammond's tweet doesn't really even support the accusations, she just says the story is unsurprising.

I'm not pretending he didn't. I specifically mentioned him a couple of times at various points, but I don't consider him anything close to a potentially impartial third party. Do you? He pretty clearly has far more at stake here, both emotionally and financially, than anyone else who has come out in support of one side or the other.

As of last night, there were four wives of hockey players (Marlee Hammond, Julie Turris, Kodette LaBarbara, and Taylor Winnik) who had tweeted at least one thing that supported some aspect of Karlsson's side of the story. Even taken altogether they prove nothing, but they're still support nonetheless and there's no reason to pretend that the scales aren't currently tipped in one direction even if the final judgment has yet to be passed. I've posted every one of those tweets on this forum, so they shouldn't be hard to find. I have no idea what's happened so far today, as I just woke up and I'm packing to return home from a trip.

Saying an accusation like this is "unsurprising" is absolutely support for that version of events. This isn't the sort of thing that normal people do, or that normal people respond to indifferently. If you heard that someone you considered to be a normal person was accused of this, you would certainly be surprised. Hammond is essentially saying that she believes Hoffman's significant other is capable of such a thing, and she would be willing to target the Karlsson's specifically. That's quite the thing to believe about someone.

 

[Frenzy31]

Boy this is a tough one. Kind of a she said/she said. It is very damaging to Hoffman, but it could be equally damaging to EK - He is 1 year away from UFA and - like all things, the truth will come out. If his wife is making it up it could hurt his value on the market and blaming someone who is innocent is terrible and would make her into a black sheep where ever they wound up .

As for Hoffman defending her, that is expected. I wouldn't expect anyone to turn their back on their GF/Wife and I would expect them to support her if she tells him it wasn't her. (Assuming that is what happened).

Social media sucks, and if I were a player/wife/actor/famous/ I wouldn't be on it. Marketing myself isn't worth all the hassle.

As for bringing him in. Any team that trades for him will want to speak with him ahead of time and will do it's due diligence. But some of that will be speaking with former players to get there take. His value is going to take a hit. But he is productive and on a 2 year deal

All this means is that you really need to talk with former players and their spouses to get an idea of her personality.

 

[TruBlu]

Boy this is a tough one. Kind of a she said/she said. It is very damaging to Hoffman, but it could be equally damaging to EK - He is 1 year away from UFA and - like all things, the truth will come out. If his wife is making it up it could hurt his value on the market and blaming someone who is innocent is terrible and would make her into a black sheep where ever they wound up .

As for Hoffman defending her, that is expected. I wouldn't expect anyone to turn their back on their GF/Wife and I would expect them to support her if she tells him it wasn't her. (Assuming that is what happened).

Social media sucks, and if I were a player/wife/actor/famous/ I wouldn't be on it. Marketing myself isn't worth all the hassle.

As for bringing him in. Any team that trades for him will want to speak with him ahead of time and will do it's due diligence. But some of that will be speaking with former players to get there take. His value is going to take a hit. But he is productive and on a 2 year deal

All this means is that you really need to talk with former players and their spouses to get an idea of her personality.

Coming from my point of view, she has to have told him that she's not behind it. I don't see him coming out with a stance on it in social media if she did it and he's aware. He has to know it would all come to light eventually. He'd have to make a huge decision when it did. Claim she lied to him, or admit that she told him but he stood up for her. Either way, he's screwed, because he is either complicit, or would be crucified because he is knowingly sticking with her. He'd be leaving millions on the table as far as a new contract is concerned.

 

[bluesfan3109]

Well on a non-drama note, e3 Allen for Lehner as a base...thoughts?

 

[MortiestOfMortys]

Well on a non-drama note, e3 Allen for Lehner as a base...thoughts?

Done. Lehner is a big mean mama jamma, and a gamer. He’s been good behind an absolutely atrocious Buffalo defense.

 

[Dbrownss]

Well on a non-drama note, e3 Allen for Lehner as a base...thoughts?

Hell no.

 

[TruBlu]

That has the makings of Ryan Miller 2.0.