Blues Trade Proposals 2018-2019

[EastonBlues22]

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[Stealth JD]

Sobotka for a fringe/veteran/depth (AHL) d-man and a 3rd.

 

[Ranksu]

Berglund, Sobotka and Jbo are expendable. Gunnar and Steen is questionmarks,depends how good our Prospects show up at camp. I rather keep Gunnar over Jbo, he's much better fit on 3rd pair Guy who we can use at PK. Ofc all depends how Jbo or Gunnar recover from their injuries.

 

[Frenzy31]

Jaybo is a much better damn then Gunner and much better on the PK. Not sure why you prefer him Gunner.

I also think Sobi bring back a couple of 2nd rounders. He is a can fit in any place in the line up at wing and center. Produc 30 points and has a decent contract.

Only reason to get rid of him is he is completely redundant with Berglund.

 

[Ranksu]

Jaybo is a much better damn then Gunner and much better on the PK. Not sure why you prefer him Gunner.

I also think Sobi bring back a couple of 2nd rounders. He is a can fit in any place in the line up at wing and center. Produc 30 points and has a decent contract.

Only reason to get rid of him is he is completely redundant with Berglund.

No,Gunnar is easily better at PK then Jbo. I need to check stats Tomorrow (currently at mobile only), but I bet hits, blocks and takeaways favors Gunnar then Jbo. I'm not ofc 100% sure.

 

[stl76]

No,Gunnar is easily better at PK then Jbo. I need to check stats Tomorrow (currently at mobile only), but I bet hits, blocks and takeaways favors Gunnar then Jbo. I'm not ofc 100% sure.

Bouwmeester is much much much better on the PK than Gunnarsson.

Since coming to the Blues in 2014-15, Gunnar has averaged 1:15, 2:01, 0:49, and 1:17 short handed minutes per game.

Since his first full season with the Blues in 2013-14, Bouwmeester has averaged 3:15, 2:49, 3:14, 2:59, and 2:10 short handed minutes per game.

 

[Evocable Manager]

Bouwmeester is much much much better on the PK than Gunnarsson.

Since coming to the Blues in 2014-15, Gunnar has averaged 1:15, 2:01, 0:49, and 1:17 short handed minutes per game.

Since his first full season with the Blues in 2013-14, Bouwmeester has averaged 3:15, 2:49, 3:14, 2:59, and 2:10 short handed minutes per game.

How does minutes played make him better? It just means he plays more.

 

[stl76]

How does minutes played make him better? It just means he plays more.

Thought the numbers themselves would be striking enough to make the point, but perhaps I should have added more context.

Player A plays 2-3 times more short handed minutes than player B under two different coaches and over a 4-5 year sample size. One player played on the top PK unit, the other did not (again, for 4-5 years in a row under two different coaches). That really says it all IMO.

Suppose I could add that, per my eye test, Gunnarsson has been much worse on the PK than Bouwmeester for as long as both have been on the Blues.

 

[Evocable Manager]

Thought the numbers themselves would be striking enough to make the point, but perhaps I should have added more context.

Player A plays 2-3 times more short handed minutes than player B under two different coaches and over a 4-5 year sample size. One player played on the top PK unit, the other did not (again, for 4-5 years in a row under two different coaches). That really says it all IMO.

Suppose I could add that, per my eye test, Gunnarsson has been much worse on the PK than Bouwmeester for as long as both have been on the Blues.

That still doesn't provide any evidence as to who's better.

Nate Schmidt spent 4 seasons in Washington and his highest ATOI was 18:42 in his rookie season. In 2016/2017 he averaged 15:29. His analytical data always suggested he was a top four defenseman with a lot more to give. Instead, he was stuck behind Orpik and Alzner who are both pretty bad.

Unsurprisingly he gets the opportunity to play in Vegas' top four and was fantastic all season and playoffs.

Ice time doesn't make a player good or bad. There's a number of players who should play more and who should play less around the NHL.

In this particular case your claiming a defenseman who was injured all year and look completely out of place in his short time with the team at 34 (will be 35 in September) is definitively better than a defenseman who was at least serviceable last season at 31. I just don't see how that's the case especially when your argument is based on essentially what went on two years ago and prior.

If the Blues have an opportunity to move Bouwmeester, you take it, regardless of what you get. His play has been diminishing for four seasons and last season he wasn't even an NHL caliber defenseman. Sure he battled through an injury, but I'd be weary of him returning to the lineup and being worth his cap hit when he hasn't been worth it since 2014-2015. Gunnarsson isn't worth the money to me either but his cap hit is lower and their pretty comparable in that neither of them really do much good out there so you may as well keep the more cost effective player.

 

[stl76]

That still doesn't provide any evidence as to who's better.

Nate Schmidt spent 4 seasons in Washington and his highest ATOI was 18:42 in his rookie season. In 2016/2017 he averaged 15:29. His analytical data always suggested he was a top four defenseman with a lot more to give. Instead, he was stuck behind Orpik and Alzner who are both pretty bad.

Unsurprisingly he gets the opportunity to play in Vegas' top four and was fantastic all season and playoffs.

Ice time doesn't make a player good or bad. There's a number of players who should play more and who should play less around the NHL.

In this particular case your claiming a defenseman who was injured all year and look completely out of place in his short time with the team at 34 (will be 35 in September) is definitively better than a defenseman who was at least serviceable last season at 31. I just don't see how that's the case especially when your argument is based on essentially what went on two years ago and prior.

If the Blues have an opportunity to move Bouwmeester, you take it, regardless of what you get. His play has been diminishing for four seasons and last season he wasn't even an NHL caliber defenseman. Sure he battled through an injury, but I'd be weary of him returning to the lineup and being worth his cap hit when he hasn't been worth it since 2014-2015. Gunnarsson isn't worth the money to me either but his cap hit is lower and their pretty comparable in that neither of them really do much good out there so you may as well keep the more cost effective player.

You're comparing 1 player across 2 different teams. I'm comparing 2 players on the same team. Big difference there. Generally speaking, the players a team who are best in a given situation are played more often than other players on the same team who are not as good in a given situation. This is very simple logic. Coaches sometimes get it wrong, but they always try to get the best results possible. Why would 2 different coaches purposefully give a worse player 2-3 times more ice time on the PK for 4-5 consecutive years? We're talking about a large sample size, a significant difference in ice time, and multiple coaches making the decision.

Sure there are examples around the league of players getting too much or not enough ice time. Ristolainen gets way too much if Buffalo for instance. The reason Risto gets so much ice time isn't because Buffalo is underutilizing Casey Nelson or Josh Gorges (or whoever), it's because those players suck on ice. If Buffalo had a better option on the right hand side I'm sure Risto would play less minutes. Gunnarsson sucks on the PK, the Blues had a better option, so Gunnarsson played less minutes.

Are there players around the league, like Schmidt, that are underutilized due to poor coaching decisions? Sure. Are they the exception rather than the rule? Yes. It's not like Gunnarsson is being underutilized and is just waiting till he turns 32 to bust out his mad PK skillz. I don't think his situation is comparable to Schmidt at all.

I'm not arguing that we should keep Bouwmeester over Gunnarsson, or vice versa for that matter. I am arguing that Bouwmeester is a much better PKer than Gunnarsson. And he is.

 

[pricer502]

Blues are closer to being a contender than we think. We already have the D to win the cup. Just look at Washington, we already have that skill and depth. At forward, after trading Stastny we are lacking 1st and 2nd line center. At goalie I think we are fine with Allen at least until the trade deadline. We have the prospects, picks, and cap space to make this offseason one of the best in blues history. We have generational talent in Petro, Tank, and Schwartz. Time for Armstrong to go build a cup winning team. If we can fill gaps up the middle we will be in good shape. Bring back statnsy to be 2nd center. Sign Tavares or Thornton and you have a cup contending team. If you can’t achieve goals through FA it’s time to deal some prospects for NHL skill. The window is still open for about 5 years and we need to hit it!

 

[Xerloris]

How are we lacking a 1st and 2nd line center? Schenn produced 70 points at center.

 

[BlueDream]

Bouwmeester is good on the PK.

Unfortunately that's about the only thing he brings to the table these days.

 

[tfriede2]

Blues are closer to being a contender than we think. We already have the D to win the cup. Just look at Washington, we already have that skill and depth. At forward, after trading Stastny we are lacking 1st and 2nd line center. At goalie I think we are fine with Allen at least until the trade deadline. We have the prospects, picks, and cap space to make this offseason one of the best in blues history. We have generational talent in Petro, Tank, and Schwartz. Time for Armstrong to go build a cup winning team. If we can fill gaps up the middle we will be in good shape. Bring back statnsy to be 2nd center. Sign Tavares or Thornton and you have a cup contending team. If you can’t achieve goals through FA it’s time to deal some prospects for NHL skill. The window is still open for about 5 years and we need to hit it!

 

[Ranksu]

Bouwmeester is much much much better on the PK than Gunnarsson.

Since coming to the Blues in 2014-15, Gunnar has averaged 1:15, 2:01, 0:49, and 1:17 short handed minutes per game.

Since his first full season with the Blues in 2013-14, Bouwmeester has averaged 3:15, 2:49, 3:14, 2:59, and 2:10 short handed minutes per game.

Lurking now stats they are pretty much same what comes to blocks shots or hits. I was wrong about it, I thought how Gunnar plays he would have significantly more block shots then Jbo.

But I do stay in view that Gunnar is better currently at PK and for 3rd pair then Jbo. Jbo has showed clear regression in his skating in last season which has been his edge to other players and when you add there his injuries I really can't see how he can recover what he was 3-4 years ago. Ofc they both have regress, but I view Gunnar has more defensive skills what doesn't depends having super good on skate. Like good active defensive stick and ability to play physical game front of net and corners. While Jbo game all depends his speed.

But to me it doesn't matter who gets traded, but one of them have to, 'cus having one of them sitting on the pressbox doesn't help us at all. Ofc we'll face injuries, but I think Mikkola will beat both of Jbo and Gunnar at summer camp or pre-season games that coaching staff can't dismiss that. I understand Mikkola is 1 timer in NA rink, but his gamestyle I don't believe it will take long to adjust smaller rink.

And we can't forgot Walman, so having two vets blocking kids icetime at NHL level isn't favorable to us. Having Jbo and Gunnar first half of season is good, but at TDL we've more clear picture what kids has showed and can we ship one of Jbo or Gunnar.

I will add prediction that Mikkola will be in Blues best PK'er in 2-years. (TOI/GP) Mikkola - Pietro kill most of penalties.


Jay Bouwmeester Stats and News

Carl Gunnarsson Stats and News

 

[Chubbinz]

Mikkola who looked no where near ready to be an NHL player last camp or the Dman who was playing perfectly adequate top pairing minutes slightly over a year ago in the playoffs(where he doubled gunnars TOI btw). Yeah I know where I'd put my money on that one.

 

[HighNote]

Mikkola who looked no where near ready to be an NHL player last camp or the Dman who was playing perfectly adequate top pairing minutes slightly over a year ago in the playoffs(where he doubled gunnars TOI btw). Yeah I know where I'd put my money on that one.

Not sure if you knew this, but uh...Mikkola is Finnish.

 

[Chubbinz]

Not sure if you knew this, but uh...Mikkola is Finnish.

Oh dang. Might as well trade Petro then too. =D

 

[Blanick]

With the rumors that the Canucks looking to be active in trade market and them looking for a center to ease Pettersson into the lineup next year I think they could be an ideal target for a Patrik Berglund trade.

They hold the #37th pick in this years draft and if memory serves correctly have been interested in Berglund in the past.

Thoughts??

 

[CaliforniaBlues310]

With the rumors that the Canucks looking to be active in trade market and them looking for a center to ease Pettersson into the lineup next year I think they could be an ideal target for a Patrik Berglund trade.

They hold the #37th pick in this years draft and if memory serves correctly have been interested in Berglund in the past.

Thoughts??

If we’re trading Berglund, I’d look for a swap for a RHS middle six RW. Silfverberg would be my main choice. Add a pick on top of Berglund and I’m pretty sure Anaheim would it.


Personally, I don’t mind having Berglund on our 3rd line this season. I think his one timer will work well with Thomas, and he can play all 3 positions.

 

[The Note in MI]

If Thomas has the confidence and playmaking he used in the OHL this year and translates it to the NHL he could be the perfect partner for guys like steen and berglund. He played well with guys like Strome and sagieon both guys who played well around the net. We know berglund and steen both can play that style well. I’m on the team of keep berglund this year and sell Sobotka for picks or in package for top 6 player if available.

 

[MortiestOfMortys]

With the rumors that the Canucks looking to be active in trade market and them looking for a center to ease Pettersson into the lineup next year I think they could be an ideal target for a Patrik Berglund trade.

They hold the #37th pick in this years draft and if memory serves correctly have been interested in Berglund in the past.

Thoughts??

If it were like Zack MacEwan (sort of like their Sam Blais) and #37, or maybe #37 and somebody like Hutton, Stecher or Granlund who has underperformed for the Nucks.

I could see a fit there, sure

 

[Stealth JD]

I actually like Berglund in a 3rd line winger role. He brings size, possession and some finishing ability that was noticeably absent in the line-up. His salary isn't a problem for what he brings, and while the term was a bit of a head-scratcher, it's not some crippling or repulsive deal that would turn off a GM. If a guy's got 2-years left he's a "pending UFA" that teams won't want to pay to acquire only to see him walk (Shatty). But if he's got 4-years at market-rate, people act like that's a bad thing as well.

If I'm Doug Armstrong, my interest in moving Berglund is pretty low and it only happens if some team comes calling with an attractive offer (likely in the form of futures & payroll flexibility). If you get to the point where you've got to move salary because you've signed Tavares and traded for O'Reilly & Lundqvist, then he's auctioned for the highest draft-pick...but he's very much one of the best-9 forwards as the roster is constructed today.

 

[Xanadude]

Long time lurker, first-time poster. This is absolutely the best place to talk Blues hockey on the internet, BTW.

Ok, so based on Gordon's STLToday chat, he continually mentioned Tyler Johnson and O'Reilly as being our targets. We've discussed that O'Reilly would cost the moon...so what about Johnson?

Thoughts- Johnson has some injury history and, as a smaller guy, may be an injury risk, but he's cheaper and could play 2RW, which keeps us in the Tavares sweepstakes. Imagine adding a Fabbri-Tavares-Johnson second line!

Addendum-considering Tampa's salary crunch and the low chances for Tavares, what if we sweetened the pot for the rights to J.T. Miller (LW/C)? They've already got Killorn and Palat on LW.

Ideal:
Tyler Johnson and T.J. Miller
for
1st rd. pick, Sobotka, Schmaltz and Kostin/Blais/Fabbri?

schwartz/Schenn/Tarasenko
Miller/Johnson/Thompson
Steen/Thomas-Berglund/Berglund-Thomas

Yes, my first post is a grandiose trade proposal. I think I'll fit in here.

 

[Dbrownss]

Tyler Johnson seemed like a good target for a good price, Tampa fans have now gone of their rockers and want Dunn/Thomas+, so yea..... in the real world, I'd say he's a real target and would be a cost effective trade