Confirmed with Link: Bill Zito is the Panthers new GM

[KW]

Common sense tricked me into believing Shawn Matthias would be an easy 30-40 points player... Guess what ? He never did !

Yup. Crouse played 66 of 70 games, so he would have played 11 of the remaining 12.

He scored at a pace of 25/66=0.379 PPG, or 4 more points over 11 games, for a total of 29. He also had three or four longish scoring droughts, and finished the season with 3 points in the last 14 games, so it’s arguable he would have ended up with 27 or 28 points.

Short of 30, and way short of 40.

 

[Dread Clawz]

Common sense tricked me into believing Shawn Matthias would be an easy 30-40 points player... Guess what ? He never did !

Umm...ok. Except that Matthias sucked, and Crouse is a way better player at the same age, and still improving.

 

[batting1k]

Hopefully he stays outside of that radar's range. Would be such a bottom feeder hire, the dude has been in the biz for twenty years and still made GM moves like a 5yo kid who's just gotten basics right on how to make trades in NHL20.

If he sticks to scouting and identifying talent, would be a good hire. Russo of the Athletic says his son his coming with him and will be running the draft. Assuming Bukala will be gone since Fenton fired him from Nashville too.

 

[Bazeek]

Hopefully he stays outside of that radar's range. Would be such a bottom feeder hire, the dude has been in the biz for twenty years and still made GM moves like a 5yo kid who's just gotten basics right on how to make trades in NHL20.

It sounds like he'll be taking his son PJ with him.


Paul hiring his son to run Minnesota's draft table wasn't exactly popular with fans at the time, but they had a strong 2019 draft. Strong enough that I'm disappointed to see PJ go.

 

[Jean Luc Discard]

If he sticks to scouting and identifying talent, would be a good hire. Russo of the Athletic says his son his coming with him and will be running the draft. Assuming Bukala will be gone since Fenton fired him from Nashville too.

Yeah, it seems that he's good at amateur scouting but if Zito thinks that he needs another source of wisdom in hockey when he can't reach out to Jarmo anymore then we're in for another rough ride after Tallon.

 

[Dread Clawz]

It sounds like he'll be taking his son PJ with him.


Paul hiring his son to run Minnesota's draft table wasn't exactly popular with fans at the time, but they had a strong 2019 draft. Strong enough that I'm disappointed to see PJ go.

It was a decent draft I guess. Beckman was a great pick in the 3rd round, although I'm surprised he lasted that long. How highly thought of is Firstov by Wild fans?

 

[Jean Luc Discard]

It sounds like he'll be taking his son PJ with him.


Paul hiring his son to run Minnesota's draft table wasn't exactly popular with fans at the time, but they had a strong 2019 draft. Strong enough that I'm disappointed to see PJ go.

The Panthers also had imo a very strong draft so I'm not sure what exactly Zito is trying to achieve with this. Clearing the house for the sake of clearing the house or, most likely, bringing his own Cosa Nostra into the Panthers organization.

 

[Dread Clawz]

The Panthers also had imo a very strong draft so I'm not sure what exactly Zito is trying to achieve with this. Clearing the house for the sake of clearing the house or, most likely, bringing his own Cosa Nostra into the Panthers organization.

Probably the latter

 

[Bazeek]

It was a decent draft I guess. Beckman was a great pick in the 3rd round, although I'm surprised he lasted that long. How highly thought of is Firstov by Wild fans?

I only saw a handful of Northeastern games last year, but I liked what I saw from him. Has a hard shot and some doggedness to his game. He gets a little lost in our pool with all the other winger prospects, but I think he's got a good chance to be an NHLer.

The Panthers also had imo a very strong draft so I'm not sure what exactly Zito is trying to achieve with this. Clearing the house for the sake of clearing the house or, most likely, bringing his own Cosa Nostra into the Panthers organization.

From the way Russo spins it that's pretty close to what Fenton was trying to set up in Minnesota I know everyone was mystified by his trades, but what actually got him fired was pissing off everyone working below him. Apparently he rubbed other GMs the wrong way, too. Still, he wasn't exactly wrong about a lot of the fat that needed trimming in Minnesota and did hit an absolute homerun with Fiala. As long as he's not expected to manage people or... like, interact with them, he's an interesting guy to have in your corner. Especially if the organization is looking to refocus on drafting and development.

 

[Jean Luc Discard]

Especially if the organization is looking to refocus on drafting and development.

The issue at hand in the Panthers' org isn't exactly drafting but development. But then again the amateur scouting dept could always be a bit better.

 

[Bazeek]

The issue at hand in the Panthers' org isn't exactly drafting but development. But then again the amateur scouting dept could always be a bit better.

If Fenton's in as an AGM (and I have no idea if he is) that might put him in charge of the AHL team, which was the role he had in Nashville. The Admirals certainly thrived under him. He also made bolstering Iowa a priority while he was in Minnesota, and they have kind of turned things around in the last two years. Not sure how much that had to do with Fenton directly, but it's something.

 

[TheImpatientPanther]

The issue at hand in the Panthers' org isn't exactly drafting but development. But then again the amateur scouting dept could always be a bit better.

2nd rounders seem to be a problem developing, need to find more consistent players and a gem every couple drafts.
Late 1sts as well (Bjugstad, Howden, Matheson, Borgstrom). Latter two can still be serviceable players.

Since 2010, our 2nd round picks:

2010: McFarland, Petrovic, Brickley
2011: Grimaldi, Bengtsson
2012: no pick drafted/owned
2013: McCoshen
2014: Hawryluk
2015: no pick drafted/owned
2016: Mascherin
2017: Heponiemi
2018: Noel
2019: Kolyachonok

from 2017 on, jury is still out and they need another two years but seems Petrovic and Grimaldi were the only ones to make it and Petrovic (263 games) is out of the league and Grimaldi has turned into a decent player (10 goals, 31pts in 66 games in NSH) this year.

We are pretty decent at 3rd and 4th rounders of late.

 

[Sticksandsun]

Crouse is a 15-20 goal scoring 3rd liner., he would have been a great fit. Wouldnt have to run out players like Toninato with The Sheriff

 

[Jean Luc Discard]

2nd rounders seem to be a problem developing, need to find more consistent players and a gem every couple drafts.

I'm pretty sure that the org just doesn't know or is inept in other ways to examine where the prospects are in their development curve and tell them what they need to improve for them to proceed into better leagues. I'd reckon that it has been so thus far that either Gallant, Boughner or Q tells them "not sufficient enough" or just doghousing them with no explanation upon hitting an obstacle in their development and down they go to the AHL with no info on what they have to do, or maybe even the AHL isn't the place for them in the first place like it was with Heponiemi.

 

[TheImpatientPanther]

I'm pretty sure that the org just doesn't know or is inept in other ways to examine where the prospects are in their development curve and tell them what they need to improve for them to proceed into better leagues. I'd reckon that it has been so thus far that either Gallant, Boughner or Q tells them "not sufficient enough" or just doghousing them with no explanation upon hitting an obstacle in their development and down they go to the AHL with no info on what they have to do, or maybe even the AHL isn't the place for them in the first place like it was with Heponiemi.

Funny, Anthony Stewart was talking about this just last week. He said during his time in FLA (think it was Jacques Martin as coach), they didn't tell him anything in detail to work on when sent down, no reason given for demotion to AHL, Stewy thought he was hot shit (self admitting it) and just kept doing his own thing and wondering why he never got more of a chance (10 games in 1st year and 2nd year, 26 games in 3rd year)
Deboer played him 59 games in his 4th year.

He then went to ATL and he said Craig Ramsay took him aside and told him what to work on, to call him if need be and gave him some structure. He played the whole year in AHL and then he had his most productive year with ATL year after with 14 goals, 39pts in 80 games.
Played one more year with CAR after that under Paul Maurice (9 goals, 20 pts in 77 games), but said he was ruined after too many head injuries.

 

[TheImpatientPanther]

@violaswallet , did you read this article from Pronman?
2020 NHL organizational rankings: No. 22 Florida Panthers - won't post too many details as it's subscription based.

love to hear this about Tippett and Denisenko,

I thought Tippett’s compete was much more consistent as a pro than he was as a junior.

I see a player (Denisenko) who has all the tools, has the work ethic, and I’ve seen him get it done many times, but he needs to be more consistent versus men.

 

[batting1k]

Yeah, it seems that he's good at amateur scouting but if Zito thinks that he needs another source of wisdom in hockey when he can't reach out to Jarmo anymore then we're in for another rough ride after Tallon.

I don’t see it that way. I see it as good thing to surround yourself with people who are good at certain things. Let’s look at our hockey ops as of right now:

Joyce
Luongo
McCabe
Braden Birch
Sydney Bell

Doesn’t exactly scream cup winner does it? I think most people around the league would tell you Fenton is good at what he does.

Maybe doesn’t have the best reputation as a person (from what I’ve read and heard), but he ran Nashville’s AHL team and their drafting + development speaks for itself. Also played with Q back in the 80s.

So if he’s off scouting 90 percent of the time, I could care less how he is with people. Let him do what he does best and reap the benefits. It’s time this team stops caring about having everyone be Mr. Nice Guy, because that got us Nick Bjugstad, Mr. Character 3rd overall, and 0 playoff round wins.

And if Dudley comes here too, that’s even better.

Zito, Dudley, Fenton, maybe keep Lu and Joyce around... now that’s a wide range of experience and opinions on things. Much better than we’ve ever had as a franchise.

 

[violaswallet]

@violaswallet , did you read this article from Pronman?
2020 NHL organizational rankings: No. 22 Florida Panthers - won't post too many details as it's subscription based.

love to hear this about Tippett and Denisenko,

yep yep: to be fair Pronman is in love with them...he had Deni as the number 5 drafted prospect and Tippett as the number 12 iirc

I like what I hear about them but still worried about the jump; maybe Borg scarred me too much

 

[violaswallet]

Funny, Anthony Stewart was talking about this just last week. He said during his time in FLA (think it was Jacques Martin as coach), they didn't tell him anything in detail to work on when sent down, no reason given for demotion to AHL, Stewy thought he was hot shit (self admitting it) and just kept doing his own thing and wondering why he never got more of a chance (10 games in 1st year and 2nd year, 26 games in 3rd year)
Deboer played him 59 games in his 4th year.

He then went to ATL and he said Craig Ramsay took him aside and told him what to work on, to call him if need be and gave him some structure. He played the whole year in AHL and then he had his most productive year with ATL year after with 14 goals, 39pts in 80 games.
Played one more year with CAR after that under Paul Maurice (9 goals, 20 pts in 77 games), but said he was ruined after too many head injuries.

I remember that from my Thrashers day: Dudley was killer at these things.

He was also probably hurt by leaving Atlanta where the fit was good (I would make the same argument with E Kane as well )

 

[Bure1096]

If Fenton is AGM, let Joyce walk.

 

[TheImpatientPanther]

I don’t see it that way. I see it as good thing to surround yourself with people who are good at certain things. Let’s look at our hockey ops as of right now:

Joyce
Luongo
McCabe
Braden Birch
Sydney Bell

Doesn’t exactly scream cup winner does it? I think most people around the league would tell you Fenton is good at what he does.

Maybe doesn’t have the best reputation as a person (from what I’ve read and heard), but he ran Nashville’s AHL team and their drafting + development speaks for itself. Also played with Q back in the 80s.

So if he’s off scouting 90 percent of the time, I could care less how he is with people. Let him do what he does best and reap the benefits. It’s time this team stops caring about having everyone be Mr. Nice Guy, because that got us Nick Bjugstad, Mr. Character 3rd overall, and 0 playoff round wins.

And if Dudley comes here too, that’s even better.

Zito, Dudley, Fenton, maybe keep Lu and Joyce around... now that’s a wide range of experience and opinions on things. Much better than we’ve ever had as a franchise.

Can we make him goalie coach?
Nothing against Tallas but LU is legit and would be a good coach imo.
Light hearted but knows the ins and outs of being a legit #1, had quite the career and cares about the team/franchise. Surrounding Knight with Bob and Lu seems like a big win for us.

 

[Beezeral]

Lol, yeah I don't think so. Crouse has been top 10 in hits the last few years, scores 30-40 pts, and could still get better. Try 4+M aav for starters. Plus you aren't finding anyone as young as Crouse in ufa. Crouse is giving the Yotes outstanding value right now.

One of these players is Lawson crouse. The other is a player on a 2.5 aav contract.

tell me again how valuable he is?

 

[Sticksandsun]

One of these players is Lawson crouse. The other is a player on a 2.5 aav contract.

View attachment 366888

tell me again how valuable he is?

This is Eric Joyce thinking, you know the guy who while controlling the team caused them to go down 30 points and is responsible for the worst AHL team in the league.

 

[Sticksandsun]

Charts say Jakub Kindl, Seth Griffith are good players.

Meanwhile Luke Schenn and Zach Bogosian are playing 15 minutes a night on a Cup winning team. Why even watch the games though??? Just build your team off charts and you too can finish with 80 points like the 2017 Panthers.

 

[GrumpyKelly]

One of these players is Lawson crouse. The other is a player on a 2.5 aav contract.

View attachment 366888

tell me again how valuable he is?

It's beyond me you think this proves anything at all.