Bill Nylander Discussion

[Notsince67]

The definitive ranking of the NHL’s top 20 right wingers over three seasons - Sportsnet.ca

He also had the highest GAR among wingers this season. It's not an opinion that he's one of the best players in the NHL; it's a fact.

Didn't see this ranking but it is curious. He is ranked extremely high defensively yet among forwards with 60 games or more is ranked 110th in TOI.QoC.
Maybe not sheltered but definitely not match against tough competition. Leafs have 4 forwards that saw higher competition.
Defense is the only leg to stand on because I can easily show players with a lot higher offensive numbers.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Lol welcome to my world. His argument earlier today was I'm an idiot because I said Mark Stone was one of (or is) the best wingers in the league like a month or two ago.

You can't argue with stupid and I keep trying to tell myself that, but the same 3 guys know how to get me going.

didn't he also try to make an argument based on his son's performance in midget hockey? funny stuff

 

[diceman934]

There were not 17 wingers who had a better season than Stone. That’s an absolutely absurd argument.

He’ll be ranked higher on those rankings next year I’d bet.

And again, THIS SEASON, he ranked 4th among ALL forwards (not just wingers) in goals above replacement.

Lol. Facts are hard to dispute. He finished behind 17 wingers in total points. You know actual goals and assists that help teams win.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Lol. Facts are hard to dispute. He finished behind 17 wingers in total points. You know actual goals and assists that help teams win.

you're mistaking factual information with concrete evidence. It's not the same

 

[Morgs]

didn't he also try to make an argument based on his son's performance in midget hockey? funny stuff

The Stone argument was Diceman, the "is my kid is better than Nylander because" argument was notsince67.

But I see the confusion, they're basically the same guy spewing from different accounts lmao.

 

[diceman934]

Lol welcome to my world. His argument earlier today was I'm an idiot because I said Mark Stone was one of (or is) the best wingers in the league like a month or two ago.

You can't argue with stupid and I keep trying to tell myself that, but the same 3 guys know how to get me going.

You said he was one of the best players in the League. We were discussing Marners next contract and you said he is not worth more then 8.0 m per or something to that affect. Then I said look at the contract Stone just signed and then you proceed to tell me Stone is better. And that he was better then Mathews and most everyone else.

You are right about one thing. You can not argue with stupid!

 

[Morgs]

You said he was one of the best players in the League. We were discussing Marners next contract and you said he is not worth more then 8.0 m per or something to that affect. Then I said look at the contract Stone just signed and then you proceed to tell me Stone is better. And that he was better then Mathews and most everyone else.

You are right about one thing. You can not argue with stupid!

He is one of the best players in the league. Like the guy lead the league in GAR this season over Crosby and McDavid. I think Matthews has the potential to be better, but it's pretty unquestionable that Stone had a better overall season - seeing how its arguable nobody was better.

I get your only arguments for forwards is "pointzzzzzz" but some people actually see value in other aspects of hockey. Not that I'd expect you to understand with your dinosaur mentality.

 

[diceman934]

you're mistaking factual information with concrete evidence. It's not the same

No I am using real facts not made up fantasy facts. 17 wingers produced more points. They had better seasons. Stone just had his best season ever. His contract is going to look real bad in a few years as his skating is an issue.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

No I am using real facts not made up fantasy facts. 17 wingers produced more points. They had better seasons. Stone just had his best season ever. His contract is going to look real bad in a few years as his skating is an issue.

Fact: Stone finished 1st among wingers in Selke voting
Fact: Defense helps teams win games
Fact: Stone is the best winger in hockey

 

[Morgs]

Fact: Stone finished 1st among wingers in Selke voting
Fact: Defense helps teams win games
Fact: Stone is the best winger in hockey

Arguably*.

Kuch/Marchand/Hall/Giroux are probably the same tier.

Keep going though man, I'm getting close to ignoring him lol.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Arguably*.

Kuch/Marchand/Hall/Giroux are probably as good or better.

Keep going man, I'm getting close to ignoring him lol.

Oh yeah, I was just trying to demonstrate why you can't look at one thing (even if it's factual), and then rank a player based on that one thing

 

[diceman934]

He is one of the best players in the league. Like the guy lead the league in GAR this season over Crosby and McDavid.

I get your only arguments for forwards is "pointzzzzzz" but some people actually see value in other aspects of hockey. Not that I'd expect you to understand lol.

You are a numbers poster who does not understand what he is watching. Accusing me of not valuing other aspects of the game while being one of maybe two who even know that Brown has not been on the ice for a 5 on 5 goal against in the playoffs. It is posters like you who look only at numbers that think that they are the be all to end all when they are simply not.

You telling me that predictive stats are more important than actual stats are more valuable. Now that is absured.

 

[Morgs]

You are a numbers poster who does not understand what he is watching. Accusing me of not valuing other aspects of the game while being one of maybe two who even know that Brown has not been on the ice for a 5 on 5 goal against in the playoffs. It is posters like you who look only at numbers that think that they are the be all to end all when they are simply not.

You telling me that predictive stats are more important than actual stats are more valuable. Now that is absured.

I watch just as much Leafs hockey as you, but the difference between us is I do my best to not let my eye test bias what the numbers say as I see far more value in statistics like xG, RAPM and GAR than I do in my own eyes.

Also, points are becoming more and more obsolete when judging a player because of how luck based so much of it is and how the predictive value is so low. Stats like xG have proven to be far better predictors for future success.

And re: Brown. I'm well aware the guy is fine defensively and has been good at it in the playoffs - the 0 GA is just a bonus. The problem with him is that unlike in his rookie season, he brings negative value offensively and is dragging down one of our best play drivers in what he does best - driving play.

 

[diceman934]

Fact: Stone finished 1st among wingers in Selke voting
Fact: Defense helps teams win games
Fact: Stone is the best winger in hockey

Defensive is only one part of the equation you do understand that right? I think that guy who won the scoring race or a winger who wins the MVP is better or the rocket year after year etc.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Defensive is only one part of the equation you do understand that right? I think that guy who won the scoring race or a winger who wins the MVP is better or the rocket year after year etc.

I agree, but didn't you try to argue that goals and assists were the whole equation?

 

[Morgs]

Oh yeah, I was just trying to demonstrate why you can't look at one thing (even if it's factual), and then rank a player based on that one thing

Ah, my bad. I should've known.

 

[43Kadri43]

Lol. Facts are hard to dispute. He finished behind 17 wingers in total points. You know actual goals and assists that help teams win.

I...

I wasted my time. That’s what I get for arguing with fools

 

[Notsince67]

didn't he also try to make an argument based on his son's performance in midget hockey? funny stuff

If you aren't clever enough to understand transitive logic, that is on you. Comparing statistics of Nylander to the top line is sophomoric and dumb. I was merely highlighting the absurdity.
Go ahead and pile on though. You continue to Rank Stone as #4 and Nylander as #9 wingers in the league

 

[Menzinger]

If you aren't clever enough to understand transitive logic, that is on you. Comparing statistics of Nylander to the top line is sophomoric and dumb. I was merely highlighting the absurdity.
Go ahead and pile on though. You continue to Rank Stone as #4 and Nylander as #9 wingers in the league

If you have to explain your post to this extent, you probably didn’t make anywhere near as clever a point as you presume.....

 

[Notsince67]

If you have to explain your post to this extent, you probably didn’t make anywhere near as clever a point as you presume.....

Ok Einstein.

 

[stickty111]

William Nylander is a playoff performer. Great series for him.

 

[weems]

The biggest giveaway in these debates is the ones who are so vocal about Nylander are massive Marner fans.

The agenda pushing and obvious bias is obvious.

I don't understand why people cant just like both players and appreciate they're both supremely talented young players.

Marner is better. That doesn't mean you have to knock down the other guy in a attempt to prove a point.

 

[Menzinger]

The biggest giveaway in these debates is the ones who are so vocal about Nylander are massive Marner fans.

The agenda pushing and obvious bias is obvious.

I don't understand why people cant just like both players and appreciate they're both supremely talented young players.

Marner is better. That doesn't mean you have to knock down the other guy in a attempt to prove a point.

Imo the most frustrating thing on these boards the last couple years has been the instance on trying to argue Leafs players off against one another.

Kadri vs Bozak
Nylander vs Marner
Marner vs Matthews
Ect

 

[Le Cobra]

Imo the most frustrating thing on these boards the last couple years has been the instance on trying to argue Leafs players off against one another.

Kadri vs Bozak
Nylander vs Marner
Marner vs Matthews
Ect

Strongly agree. ‘A kingdom divided will not stand.’

 

[ZEBROA]

Marner is better. That doesn't mean you have to knock down the other guy in a attempt to prove a point.

Marner is so much above Nylander that he pokes god in the *** when celibrates a goal, the few times Nylander scores you know he pokes the Devil. And Marner did it all by himself with no support, no line chemestry, no ice time, no ppl time. All alone despite his team are like the army of undead. And at the end of that army there walks Nylander with Marleau and Brown by his side.

Ok i hippibrained there. But its the saint against the pagan story. And that fight will sadly never end. Maby when the pagan gets pitchforked out of town. I hope not.