Bettman visiting Winnipeg to meet with corporate sponsors, host a fireside chat with fans amid declining season ticket sales

[Yukon Joe]

Stop... I can only get so aroused

I honestly can say, I didn't expect this but it is truly hilarious to read these comments.

Winnipeg should not have gotten a team again.. plain and simple.

And yet we did. Your tears are delicious.

Look, I went through the comments in this article. Some of them sounds like just whining, but a lot of them tend to point at things that could definitely be fixed. Fans - and that is, fans who buy season tickets and spend lots of money on the team, just want to feel appreciated. And I mean - don't we all?

 

[Stumbledore]

I legitimately don't have a single person in my social circle who actually goes to the Ballet or Theater, which includes my buddy's wife who was a theater major in uni. Hell I can't say I've ever had any social interaction with people who've brought up the idea. Not colleagues, friends of my parents, not girls I've dated, no one.

Understood. You have my sympathy.

 

[tucker3434]

It's in their best interest to make their sport as popular as possible, and relocating teams loses customers. Pure and simple.

NFL shares 66% of revenue. NHL shares 6% of league revenue. If there was more revenue sharing, the places where hockey is very popular (Canada) has an easier time getting and keeping teams (that's good). But the big markets with lower hockey interest, also have more money to spend on marketing/promotion to try and make people more hockey fans (also good).

And since the big market teams with high interest are already capped in what they can spend on players, you're not hurting the fans of the big market teams in any way.

Well, for one thing, Canadian fans tend to be the most vocal in opposition to revenue sharing.

Revenue sharing is an important tool for the financial wellbeing of the league as a whole but it shouldn’t be a part of anyone’s strategy long-term. Winnipeg is here and they aren’t going anywhere. But if you idea for new small market teams is for NYC, Toronto, Montreal and LA foot the bill, well, you can see why they won’t get the votes.

 

[Yukon Joe]

Well, for one thing, Canadian fans tend to be the most vocal in opposition to revenue sharing.

Revenue sharing is an important tool for the financial wellbeing of the league as a whole but it shouldn’t be a part of anyone’s strategy long-term. Winnipeg is here and they aren’t going anywhere. But if you idea for new small market teams is for NYC, Toronto, Montreal and LA foot the bill, well, you can see why they won’t get the votes.

We are?

I mean before the salary cap the NHL had the Canadian Assistance Program - which was a kind of revenue sharing only for Canadian teams.

I know there's a subset of mostly Toronto fans that wish they could just spend without limit - but I think that's a small minority.

 

[TheLegend]

And yet we did. Your tears are delicious.

Look, I went through the comments in this article. Some of them sounds like just whining, but a lot of them tend to point at things that could definitely be fixed. Fans - and that is, fans who buy season tickets and spend lots of money on the team, just want to feel appreciated. And I mean - don't we all?

If you looked at the similar article recently posted by Craig Morgan on what Coyotes fans felt about the current ownership group you’d probably see a few similarities.

Sounds to me like there’s a disconnect here between the more ardent fans and their ownerships.

 

[tucker3434]

We are?

I mean before the salary cap the NHL had the Canadian Assistance Program - which was a kind of revenue sharing only for Canadian teams.

I know there's a subset of mostly Toronto fans that wish they could just spend without limit - but I think that's a small minority.

Pretty much every time you see criticism of revenue sharing on these boards, it comes from one place…

 

[CaptainUgly]

Ah...you're one of the "I don't have any good points, I just think some random small town in the middle of nowhere Canada should get a team" folks. Got it.

No, I don't feel like waisting time and energy on you.

 

[Gnashville]

But the thing is - that's not true. I was also there for 2011. Lots of people were questioning Winnipeg. Lots of people were stepping up to buy tickets in order to support the team - because they knew if they and people like them didn't, Jets 2.0 wouldn't work.

in 2011 TNSE was gearing up for a lengthy ticket drive, warning they needed to sell I think it was 13,000 tickets to make this work. Of course the tickets actually sold out within a few minutes - but nobody predicted that would happen.

Apr 2012: Jets will not need NHL's revenue-sharing

Winnipeg Jets co-owner and governor Mark Chipman dropped a bombshell at a press conference today, announcing the Jets will not be a revenue-sharing team for 2011-12. The assumption far and wide —...

www.winnipegfreepress.com

After the first season it was touted by the media as being a huge success and they were never going to need Revenue Sharing. Times change though .

 

[BKIslandersFan]

You've obviously not heard of the Royal Winnipeg Ballet and its international reputation or the Royal Manitoba Theatre Centre which is highly regarded across North America. Well, in the LA Times and the New York Times at least.

Judging from your post, however, you're probably not a fan of our symphony or many live theatres or the varied musical scene in Winnipeg.

I don't imagine ballet fandom and sports fandom share too much crossovers.

Could be wrong though.

Not that your point of ballet and theatre counting as something to do is wrong.

 

[BMN]

Apr 2012: Jets will not need NHL's revenue-sharing

Winnipeg Jets co-owner and governor Mark Chipman dropped a bombshell at a press conference today, announcing the Jets will not be a revenue-sharing team for 2011-12. The assumption far and wide —...

www.winnipegfreepress.com

After the first season it was touted by the media as being a huge success and they were never going to need Revenue Sharing. Times change though .

Just playing devil's advocate though...

The lede of that story proves @Yukon Joe 's point...

Winnipeg Jets co-owner and governor Mark Chipman dropped a bombshell at a press conference today, announcing the Jets will not be a revenue-sharing team for 2011-12.

The assumption far and wide — including by the team until very recently — was that the Jets, playing in the NHL’s smallest building and in its smallest market, would need to participate in the league’s welfare system to make a go of it.

So the article--- from the Winnipeg Free Press mind you--- is saying "can you believe it? We WON'T need revenue sharing! We're as shocked as you are!" Not in any way "pfffftttttt we told you so."

 

[Yukon Joe]

Apr 2012: Jets will not need NHL's revenue-sharing

Winnipeg Jets co-owner and governor Mark Chipman dropped a bombshell at a press conference today, announcing the Jets will not be a revenue-sharing team for 2011-12. The assumption far and wide —...

www.winnipegfreepress.com

After the first season it was touted by the media as being a huge success and they were never going to need Revenue Sharing. Times change though .

Do you know what word doesn't appear in that article - not even once?

"Never".

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

No, I don't feel like waisting time and energy on you.

 

[Stumbledore]

Apr 2012: Jets will not need NHL's revenue-sharing

Winnipeg Jets co-owner and governor Mark Chipman dropped a bombshell at a press conference today, announcing the Jets will not be a revenue-sharing team for 2011-12. The assumption far and wide —...

www.winnipegfreepress.com

After the first season it was touted by the media as being a huge success and they were never going to need Revenue Sharing. Times change though .

You'd have more credibility here if you'd stop making shit up to verify your mistaken beliefs.

 

[Stumbledore]

So the article--- from the Winnipeg Free Press mind you--- is saying "can you believe it? We WON'T need revenue sharing! We're as shocked as you are!" Not in any way "pfffftttttt we told you so."

Nice cherry picking. If you read further in the article, Chipman explains how they examined the experiences and results from other teams and expected to break even or very close to it.

Nowhere in the article does it say they are shocked. Why do so many Winnipeg haters have to keep making shit up to support their mistaken beliefs?

 

[dj4aces]

And yet we did. Your tears are delicious.

Look, I went through the comments in this article. Some of them sounds like just whining, but a lot of them tend to point at things that could definitely be fixed. Fans - and that is, fans who buy season tickets and spend lots of money on the team, just want to feel appreciated. And I mean - don't we all?

I read through them as well.

Are some of them simply "whining"? I mean, maybe so. But they're all valid concerns, and they could all be fixed rather easily, except for one: Pricing. People want to see that line on the graph go up, and the only thing better than a big number is a bigger number. But pricing, as indicated, is absolutely keeping some fans away.

You put a team anywhere, ramp pricing through the roof, charge a ton for event parking, and you'll find some of the fans who could show up at the start can no longer afford to do so. In this way, the only thing different with Winnipeg is the number of fans who are willing and able to pay those rising costs is lower than in other markets... which makes sense, considering the Winnipeg CMA has the smallest metro population in the league.

The last line of the article is true, though. Passion isn't a problem in Winnipeg. But it seems that everyone who wrote in agrees, in one way or another, that ownership is the problem. In this way, the honeymoon truly is over, and TNSE has burned through all of its goodwill. Now they have to start doing some real work, rather than depend on NHL hockey to simply sell itself.

 

[Yukon Joe]

I read through them as well.

Are some of them simply "whining"? I mean, maybe so. But they're all valid concerns, and they could all be fixed rather easily, except for one: Pricing. People want to see that line on the graph go up, and the only thing better than a big number is a bigger number. But pricing, as indicated, is absolutely keeping some fans away.

You put a team anywhere, ramp pricing through the roof, charge a ton for event parking, and you'll find some of the fans who could show up at the start can no longer afford to do so. In this way, the only thing different with Winnipeg is the number of fans who are willing and able to pay those rising costs is lower than in other markets... which makes sense, considering the Winnipeg CMA has the smallest metro population in the league.

The last line of the article is true, though. Passion isn't a problem in Winnipeg. But it seems that everyone who wrote in agrees, in one way or another, that ownership is the problem. In this way, the honeymoon truly is over, and TNSE has burned through all of its goodwill. Now they have to start doing some real work, rather than depend on NHL hockey to simply sell itself.

So the whining was complaining about downtown itself and complaining about the security procedures at the front (including purse size). I mean increased security is a thing around the league, and downtown Winnipeg is what it is. Actually TNSE directly, and both Thomson and Chipman on their own, have done a lot to try and develop downtown Winnipeg outside of the arena.

But yes - pricing is always legitimate. You can't consistently raise prices well about the rate of inflation without it starting to really hurt. A lot of the talk from actual season ticket holders about how the team never reached out when they cancelled is kind of shocking.

And I can confirm - I was on the wait list for 5 years. It was kind of dumb of me given how I live in Edmonton and it cost $100 / year, but the idea was once you get tickets that money goes towards your tickets. My idea had been to simply sell my tickets online except for one or two, which would force me to go to Winnipeg more often. But anyways as the secondary market softened and you couldn't consistently sell your tickets online at the price you bought them for I decided the $500 was just a sunk cost. When I called to cancel they said "sorry to see you go" and that was about it. They later said they could direct the $500 towards Moose tickets for kids which I said sure, but that was hardly the same as getting my money back. They said I would get a tax receipt, but I never wound up getting one.

 

[dj4aces]

So the whining was complaining about downtown itself and complaining about the security procedures at the front (including purse size). I mean increased security is a thing around the league, and downtown Winnipeg is what it is. Actually TNSE directly, and both Thomson and Chipman on their own, have done a lot to try and develop downtown Winnipeg outside of the arena.

Whether the condition of downtown is a valid concern is in the eye of the beholder. While TNSE may be doing a lot of work to improve downtown Winnipeg and make it more aesthetically pleasing and welcoming, it seems that some folks feel there's more yet to do. Some folks will accept that work is being done, while others will point out that not enough has been done. Is the glass half-empty, or is it half-full?

With that said, I hope the $500 you ended up putting down while on the wait list actually went towards Moose tickets for kids. The fact you never received a tax receipt makes me question whether or not the money went there.

 

[Gnashville]

Just playing devil's advocate though...

The lede of that story proves @Yukon Joe 's point...

Winnipeg Jets co-owner and governor Mark Chipman dropped a bombshell at a press conference today, announcing the Jets will not be a revenue-sharing team for 2011-12.

The assumption far and wide — including by the team until very recently — was that the Jets, playing in the NHL’s smallest building and in its smallest market, would need to participate in the league’s welfare system to make a go of it.

So the article--- from the Winnipeg Free Press mind you--- is saying "can you believe it? We WON'T need revenue sharing! We're as shocked as you are!" Not in any way "pfffftttttt we told you so."

This article became “Pfffttt we told you so” for years upon years. That was my point after the first season where the city was full of euphoria and sold not only tickets but souvenirs out like crazy, they net paid like 100K into the system but it was a one time occurrence that was touted by media and fans for almost a decade as “we don’t receive welfare”. That was my point.

 

[Yukon Joe]

This article became “Pfffttt we told you so” for years upon years. That was my point after the first season where the city was full of euphoria and sold not only tickets but souvenirs out like crazy, they net paid like 100K into the system but it was a one time occurrence that was touted by media and fans for almost a decade as “we don’t receive welfare”. That was my point.

Lets go back to your earleir statement:

I remember being told it would be a
100% guaranteed sell out at full price and will never receive a penny of revenue sharing.

Nobody ever said they'd sell out forever and never need revenue sharing! If that's what you are remembering then you are mistaken.

Nobody said that before the team moved, nobody said that after the first season.

If some rando on HFBoards said that take it up with them, not with "media and fans". Fans have always understood the Jets are in the smallest market in the NH by a fair margin. The Jets have worked the past 13 years, and I believe will continue to work, but it was always going to require work from both the team and the community.

 

[Stumbledore]

Lets go back to your earleir statement:

Nobody ever said they'd sell out forever and never need revenue sharing! If that's what you are remembering then you are mistaken.

Nobody said that before the team moved, nobody said that after the first season.

If some rando on HFBoards said that take it up with them, not with "media and fans". Fans have always understood the Jets are in the smallest market in the NH by a fair margin. The Jets have worked the past 13 years, and I believe will continue to work, but it was always going to require work from both the team and the community.

I think the best and only thing you need to say to posters like Gnashville is:

I don't feel like wasting time and energy on you.

Each time he comes out with one of his mistakes / lies / made up shit, just reply with:

I don't feel like wasting time and energy on you.

 

[Yukon Joe]

I think the best and only thing you need to say to posters like Gnashville is:

I don't feel like wasting time and energy on you.

Each time he comes out with one of his mistakes / lies / made up shit, just reply with:

I don't feel like wasting time and energy on you.

I mean - he's entitled to not like the Jets. He's entitled to think, and say, they should be moved.

I just get annoyed at this kind of shadowboxing about "what everyone was saying".

People are fully accountable for what, themselves, have said (like I just did Gnashville). But I'm not going to hold him to account for what other southern fans have said - even if I could actually provide quotes.

 

[BMN]

This article became “Pfffttt we told you so” for years upon years. That was my point after the first season where the city was full of euphoria and sold not only tickets but souvenirs out like crazy, they net paid like 100K into the system but it was a one time occurrence that was touted by media and fans for almost a decade as “we don’t receive welfare”. That was my point.

Now wait a minute: you're shifting the goalposts here, which is pretty rich given that I'm sure that's the first thing you'd harangue a Canadian/northern America hockey fan for doing to you. First it was "we were told they'd never need revenue sharing," and when we provided demonstrative evidence that this truly wasn't the consensus opinion, you want to shift everything to someone sort of retroactive anger at the cockiness of 2017 Winnipeg Jets fans/Canadian media rather than 2011/2012 Winnipeg Jets fans/Canadian media.

If I wanted to take out my anger on the AJC comment section from April 2011 and the people on it that talked about Winnipeg as a middle-of-nowhere-place unworthy of major league sports.......a--- I'd go to that website and b--- I'd get a time machine while I was at it. You're desperate to find the strawman or strawmen in this thread to make fun of for being wrong about Winnipeg in some way or fashion, and you're happy to shift your claims to suit it. But if you really want the satisfaction you crave (which is apparently not already satisfactorily met by the great success that has been the Nashville hockey market), go into the archive-- this site has posts dating back to 2004....they're all still here. Find the users in question "that were all" saying these things and mock them.

Also, southern fans with bitterness towards Winnipeg treating THIS moment in the franchise's history (where we still don't have any definitive evidence it is losing money, there's no sale or relocation in sight, the team is contending for a one-seed and all we have in the negative is *merely* 86% average capacity at a higher-than-average ticket price while the market it was most compared to is still trying to find a place to build a larger-than-college-capacity rink) as your moment of great vicarious satisfaction?

That.........that is very much not the "own" you think it is.

 

[Gnashville]

You'd have more credibility here if you'd stop making shit up to verify your mistaken beliefs.

You have been here since 2018 and don’t know what was said during the original relocation of the Thrashers.

 

[dj4aces]

If I wanted to take out my anger on the AJC comment section from April 2011 and the people on it that talked about Winnipeg as a middle-of-nowhere-place unworthy of major league sports.....

There were plenty of folks from Winnipeg who ventured forth into the AJC comment sections to talk shit about Atlanta, both before and after the move occurred. Some of those comments even appeared on blog pages entirely unrelated to hockey, or sports in general. Pretty dark days for the reporters in the Metro and Living sections, having to clean up the mess left behind by that lot.

Do I blame any of the regular folks in the hockey blogs on the AJC site for venting their frustrations? Can't say I do. Most folks considered the AJC blogs a safe space, despite it being online and visible to anyone who wanted to see it, for some reason. After all, it's a local paper. A modicum of expectation was that folks commenting would also be local.

So I hope no one would "take out [their] anger" in the comments section of a newspaper that isn't even their own local paper, all because some folks were taking out their frustrations by referring to Winnipeg as some middle-of-nowhere one-stop-light town full of snow farmers or whatever nonsense was written there. It was dark days for hockey fans here, just as the departure of Jets 1.0 were dark days for Winnipeg folks.

Immaturity and emotional outbursts shouldn't be met with immaturity. It should simply be ignored. Otherwise, just providing a little context.

 

[Yukon Joe]

You have been here since 2018 and don’t know what was said during the original relocation of the Thrashers.

So my registration date is August, 2011. That date is not a co-incidence - that was after the HF Thrashers board was converted to HF Jets.

I know what was said on Jetsowner.com - which was THE place to talk about the potential rebirth of the Winnipeg Jets. And the talk was universally "an NHL team can survive in Winnipeg" and not "we'll sell out forever and never need revenue sharing!". In fact most projections (which were very 'back of the envelope') included revenue sharing.

But then why don't you inform us - what was said (with quotes and links, please and thank you) during the original relocation of the Thrashers.


But that being said - again what does it matter what some randos were saying in spring 2011? You should read the bullshit I see online sometimes. Twitter is in particular bad for it. But why should I get mad at anyone other than the person who said the bullshit?