Bettman visiting Winnipeg to meet with corporate sponsors, host a fireside chat with fans amid declining season ticket sales

[Dirty Old Man]

You're doing the exact same bullshit as the relocationistas do and it's just as obnoxious.

As long as you agree relocationistas are obnoxious. That's all we ask.

 

[CaptainUgly]

Haven't really seen any posts about underperforming markets struggling due to other sports in town, but I'll take your word for it.

Overall, I'm just wanting to understand the reasoning behind why that poster says the NHL "needs small Canadian markets to survive". The Canadian markets do great, but I'm just trying to understand why he says this.

Because hockey is a niche sport that doesn't appeal to the masses. The % of fans in a big market might be smaller than those in a smaller market

 

[LadyStanley]

Friedman has interesting comparison to MLB Toronto. Winning is good deodorant.

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

Because hockey is a niche sport that doesn't appeal to the masses. The % of fans in a big market might be smaller than those in a smaller market

I'm not sure where that data is. Edmonton is the only metro under 3 million people within the top-10 in attendance this year. How does the NHL need small markets (with lower corporate presence) to survive??

 

[tucker3434]

I'm not sure where that data is. Edmonton is the only metro under 3 million people within the top-10 in attendance this year. How does the NHL need small markets (with lower corporate presence) to survive??

It's nonsense. The NHL "needs" small markets about the same way the NFL needs markets like Birmingham, Alabama. The kids there are going to keep playing and turning into pros. The adults will either find pro teams to follow from a distance or "amateur" teams to follow nearby.

That doesn't mean a Green Bay can't work, but it's probably the exception rather than the rule and helped by the fact that it's existed forever.

 

[Gnashville]

I was told that if the team just existed it would sell out FOREVER.

I remember being told it would be a
100% guaranteed sell out at full price and will never receive a penny of revenue sharing.

 

[Knights2017]

I remember being told it would be a
100% guaranteed sell out at full price and will never receive a penny of revenue sharing.

Seriously lol. short memories around here.. Poor little Winnipegers. Get outta here

 

[Yukon Joe]

I remember being told it would be a
100% guaranteed sell out at full price and will never receive a penny of revenue sharing.

Well you should probably go find the person who told you that and go laugh at them.

Otherwise - what's your point?

If someone said "they'll never receive revenue sharing" in particular would have bee foolish. Part of what allowed the Jets to come back was the existence of the salary cap and revenue sharing (as well as finally having a new arena). That's what changed from 1996 to 2011.

 

[BMN]

Well you should probably go find the person who told you that and go laugh at them. Otherwise - what's your point?

HFBoards threads would be 75% shorter if we weren't all arguing against displaced opponents from over a decade ago (and I'm not mocking, I'm as guilty as anyone ).

 

[ForumNamePending]

I also remember posters preemptively whining about how some other markets, at the time doing perfectly fine, would be "protected" by the media and such if they ever did have issues, and yet here we are... So while we are painting with broad strokes, I guess one way or the other, everyone was wrong? So hurrah for that I suppose.

 

[Ernie]

I remember being told it would be a
100% guaranteed sell out at full price and will never receive a penny of revenue sharing.

Who said these things?

22 of the 32 teams get revenue sharing funds. Levels of revenue sharing vary widely, however, with teams at the bottom getting a lot more than teams near the top.

Forbes has the Jets listed as 26 out of 32 in terms of revenue, so if those numbers are to be believed, they are not at the bottom.

 

[edog37]

We have supported them plentily until a global pandemic and economic recession that you still pretend didnt happen wiped out peoples expendable income occured.

So no, its a logical reason in a small market that is still earning the league profits and increasing net worth. Stay mad. You continue whining after your failed and lousy troll attempts tho. Get some better material for once instead of regurgitating the same debunked point you make over and over.

Funny how you’ll quickly shut down the same reasoning for a non-traditional market & say they should lose their team to a “worthy market”. That’s called hypocrisy. You think the same reasons weren’t in play for places like Arizona at the same time? So stop making excuses & live up to the self-proclaimed lofty standard set here.

I'm just hearing excuses for a market that was supposed to be the mecca of hockey.

Couldn’t have stated it any better.

 

[CaptainUgly]

I'm not sure where that data is. Edmonton is the only metro under 3 million people within the top-10 in attendance this year. How does the NHL need small markets (with lower corporate presence) to survive??

Roll Tide

 

[cg98]

And yet, here we are with a another basket case in Canada

Youd know about basket cases with your behaviour eh? Lol

 

[Gnashville]

Who said these things?

22 of the 32 teams get revenue sharing funds. Levels of revenue sharing vary widely, however, with teams at the bottom getting a lot more than teams near the top.

Forbes has the Jets listed as 26 out of 32 in terms of revenue, so if those numbers are to be believed, they are not at the bottom.

TSN, SportsNet ect practically every one from Winnipeg. People have short memories anymore

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

Roll Tide

Ah...you're one of the "I don't have any good points, I just think some random small town in the middle of nowhere Canada should get a team" folks. Got it.

 

[Hockeyholic]

Fans aren't happy with Chapman's comments on needing more support.

Upset fans weigh in on Jets attendance woes, threat to leave

When Winnipeg Jets co-owner Mark Chipman said the team isn't sustainable with the fan support it's getting, he obviously touched a nerve.

www.google.com

 

[jetsmooseice]

Fans aren't happy with Chapman's comments on needing more support.

Upset fans weigh in on Jets attendance woes, threat to leave

When Winnipeg Jets co-owner Mark Chipman said the team isn't sustainable with the fan support it's getting, he obviously touched a nerve.

www.google.com

Chipman has been weirdly negative in the post-pandemic period. The Jets went from not having to lift a finger to sell their tickets for an entire decade, straight to repeatedly pressing the "ominous signals" button in the last year or so. They didn't even really try actually selling their product.

Winnipeg loves the Jets, the city would respond to an actual marketing effort. It looks bad on Chipman to start making veiled threats the moment the fanbase takes its foot off the gas pedal after four years of economic malaise and disappointing team underachievement. I'm not sure why he wouldn't take a more positive approach, at least to start. Besides, either way he wins... if the fanbase fails to step up he gets to pocket hundreds of millions of dollars from the sale of the team.

 

[JKG33]

Chipman has been weirdly negative in the post-pandemic period. The Jets went from not having to lift a finger to sell their tickets for an entire decade, straight to repeatedly pressing the "ominous signals" button in the last year or so. They didn't even really try actually selling their product.

Winnipeg loves the Jets, the city would respond to an actual marketing effort. It looks bad on Chipman to start making veiled threats the moment the fanbase takes its foot off the gas pedal after four years of economic malaise and disappointing team underachievement. I'm not sure why he wouldn't take a more positive approach, at least to start. Besides, either way he wins... if the fanbase fails to step up he gets to pocket hundreds of millions of dollars from the sale of the team.

It's a small city Winnipeg with an NHL team, what marketing needs to be done? There's literally f*** all else to do here. Even people who aren't hockey fans know the Jets are the only game in town

 

[Yukon Joe]

Chipman has been weirdly negative in the post-pandemic period. The Jets went from not having to lift a finger to sell their tickets for an entire decade, straight to repeatedly pressing the "ominous signals" button in the last year or so. They didn't even really try actually selling their product.

Winnipeg loves the Jets, the city would respond to an actual marketing effort. It looks bad on Chipman to start making veiled threats the moment the fanbase takes its foot off the gas pedal after four years of economic malaise and disappointing team underachievement. I'm not sure why he wouldn't take a more positive approach, at least to start. Besides, either way he wins... if the fanbase fails to step up he gets to pocket hundreds of millions of dollars from the sale of the team.

Chipman came from a wealthy family well before he got into hockey. I mean obviously not David Thomson like levels of wealth, but enough to be a big deal in Winnipeg and not have to worry about paying his bills.

Chipman brought the Manitoba Moose to Winnipeg after the Jets left town, then ran that team for 15 years in the IHL then the AHL. Nobody gets involved in minor league hockey to get wealthy - he did it because he loves hockey and wanted to keep professional hockey in his home town.

So - 'pocketing hundreds of millions of dollars' does not appear to be Chipman's interest in the slightest.

 

[jetsmooseice]

It's a small city Winnipeg with an NHL team, what marketing needs to be done? There's literally f*** all else to do here. Even people who aren't hockey fans know the Jets are the only game in town

I posted this in another thread:

Winnipeg is a small metro area, the smallest in North America to have a big four major sports team. But what I think a lot of people in the US don't necessarily realize is that Winnipeg is a very crowded sports market for a city of its size. Winnipeg has a successful and well supported CFL team that draws over 30,000 fans a game at ticket prices only a bit lower than the Jets. Obviously the CFL team's revenue is a fraction of what a NFL team brings in but it might be more similar in scale to MLS, it's not an insignificant amount of money. Add to that the AHL team, the CEBL basketball team which draws between 5-10 thousand fans a game, the CPL soccer team and the minor league baseball team, and that's a lot going on for a fairly small city. There was also the WHL too until the league forced the team out. On top of that there's also university athletics, junior A hockey and what not, but those have a fairly small impact.

By contrast, the typical US city with 750,000 people will have a minor league baseball team, a lower-profile NCAA program, and maybe one or two other very low level sports teams. A comparably-sized city like El Paso doesn't have anything on the level of a CFL or AHL team, let alone the NHL.

This is not meant to be an excuse, but it's one of the reasons why the Jets are having a bit of trouble. There are a lot of teams vying for attention here, and the Jets do have to compete with them. Americans might only be aware of the Jets so they wonder why we don't support our "only sports team" when the reality is much different. We're a city of less than a million people carrying several pro sports teams.

So there are other options. You, as someone in Winnipeg, would know this. It's not enough to say "we're here, buy tickets or else" when there are other options for discretionary spending, both in the sports context and otherwise.

You wouldn't try selling tickets in Miami or Phoenix using veiled threats, so why would you do it here?

 

[Yukon Joe]

TSN, SportsNet ect practically every one from Winnipeg. People have short memories anymore

But the thing is - that's not true. I was also there for 2011. Lots of people were questioning Winnipeg. Lots of people were stepping up to buy tickets in order to support the team - because they knew if they and people like them didn't, Jets 2.0 wouldn't work.

in 2011 TNSE was gearing up for a lengthy ticket drive, warning they needed to sell I think it was 13,000 tickets to make this work. Of course the tickets actually sold out within a few minutes - but nobody predicted that would happen.

 

[jetsmooseice]

Chipman came from a wealthy family well before he got into hockey. I mean obviously not David Thomson like levels of wealth, but enough to be a big deal in Winnipeg and not have to worry about paying his bills.

Chipman brought the Manitoba Moose to Winnipeg after the Jets left town, then ran that team for 15 years in the IHL then the AHL. Nobody gets involved in minor league hockey to get wealthy - he did it because he loves hockey and wanted to keep professional hockey in his home town.

So - 'pocketing hundreds of millions of dollars' does not appear to be Chipman's interest in the slightest.

I agree with you. Through his words and actions, he has definitely presented himself as a more selfless type of sports team owner... far more to the Bob Young end of the scale than Harold Ballard. Which is why his recent comments have struck a discordant note. It was clear from last year's "Forever Winnipeg" campaign that the heavy handed approach landed with a thud. So why did Chipman double down on trying to sell tickets by guilting the fanbase instead of trying to make people feel good about what we've got here?

Chipman's approach might have made sense for a last-place team with no other marketing cards to play, but it doesn't seem like the greatest approach for a team challenging for the President's Trophy.

 

[Yukon Joe]

So there are other options. You, as someone in Winnipeg, would know this. It's not enough to say "we're here, buy tickets or else" when there are other options for discretionary spending, both in the sports context and otherwise.

You wouldn't try selling tickets in Miami or Phoenix using veiled threats, so why would you do it here?

It's not just that - it's that people have the option of staying home and watching the game on the tv. People have giant tvs these days, HD reception is great, there's no line up at the bathroom, the beer is cheap...

 

[JKG33]

I posted this in another thread:



So there are other options. You, as someone in Winnipeg, would know this. It's not enough to say "we're here, buy tickets or else" when there are other options for discretionary spending, both in the sports context and otherwise.

You wouldn't try selling tickets in Miami or Phoenix using veiled threats, so why would you do it here?

I mean really, there is nothing to do here for 90% of the Jets season. The Bombers only overlap for at most 1 month. As someone in Winnipeg I do know that lol.

In a place like Miami or Phoenix there's a multitude of things to do, both sports and other events and nightlife. The NHL teams actually have to compete for market share, especially when hockey isn't nearly as known or popular in those areas.

In Winnipeg, everyone knows what hockey is and there's 0 competition for 90% of the NHL season. Nobody's going to U of M games (hockey or any other sport) besides some students and players' friends/families. Jr A hockey here isn't what it is in Alberta or BC. The Moose are aimed at families/kids. The WHL couldn't get an arena sorted out and failed miserably. And for non-sporting events, there's also very little in terms of what to do for recreation/entertainment.

As for the El Paso comparison, funny enough I was on their Jr A team for about 2 weeks. Not enough time to get to know the city. But we'd get a couple thousand at our games (or however much that shitty barn could hold) and people also supported UTEP everything. College sports are a completely different beast in the states