Bettman visiting Winnipeg to meet with corporate sponsors, host a fireside chat with fans amid declining season ticket sales

[MMC]

Click to read more...

 

[LadyStanley]

Talking with sponsors, fans

 

[MMC]

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

That’s… weird.

Though I guess Bettman being there to help get support for ticket sales should help kill off this “Bettman hates Canada” crap.

 

[Headshot77]

Athletic Paywall:

Winnipeg Jets ownership sounds the alarm on attendance: ‘Not going to work over the long haul’

This is the second time he's done this in the last year, no? Publicly call out the city of Winnipeg for not getting enough businesses on board with season tickets that is.

 

[Yukon Joe]

There is about a zero percent chance he's doing this without TNSE's blessing, or even at their request.

At the end of last season Mark Chipman warned that they needed to sell more season tickets if the team was going to continue to survive. That went over extremely poorly - people took it as a threat. As you have seen, they did not sell noticeable more season tickets for this year.

So it looks like now they're trying to have the commissioner give the same message.

 

[Jedub]

I know the title is clickbaity but that's what they chose. The full quote is :

“I wouldn’t be honest with you if I didn’t say, ‘We’ve got to get back to 13,000,’” Chipman said. “This place we find ourselves in right now, it’s not going to work over the long haul. It just isn’t.”

By 13,000 he's talking about season ticket holders which have dropped down to 9,500. Some good insights in this article on why that is including:

They managed to fill the building for more than a decade despite having just 15 percent of their season seats purchased by businesses. That lags well below the norm in a league in which some teams sell 50 percent of their tickets to corporate interests, according to Chipman.

As much as fans hate corporations buying up tons of tickets, it can be a lot more sustainable than relying on average people to buy tickets to 41 games a year

 

[Headshot77]

I don't really think the title is clickbait. It's a direct quote of what Chipman said and it wasn't like they picked an out of context part of the quote and misconstrue it.

The MLB shot down the Tampa Bay Rays plan of spending half of their 81 home games in Montreal, for good reason. Not only does that cut your fanbase in half but that's quite a wide geographical distance. All of your players would need apartments in two different countries, increased travel costs, etc.

Winnipeg-Quebec is roughly the same distance as the crow flies as Tampa-Montreal, but you would only have to deal with one singular country at least. Each city has a modern NHL facility. And only sitting 41 games instead of 81 would make the logistics a lot simpler. How impractical would it be for the Jets to split their home games with Quebec?

 

[Yukon Joe]

I know the title is clickbaity but that's what they chose. The full quote is :

By 13,000 he's talking about season ticket holders which have dropped down to 9,500. Some good insights in this article on why that is including:

As much as fans hate corporations buying up tons of tickets, it can be a lot more sustainable than relying on average people to buy tickets to 41 games a year

In 2011 when the Jets came back people were so excited - they formed all kinds of groups and consortiums where season tickets would be shared between 4, 6 , 8 or more people. Over time a lot of those groups had people drop out, unable to recruit more to take their place. As well tickets became more affordable on the secondary market so people just started dropping their season ticket packages.

I know Winnipeg doesn't have a whole lot of corporate head offices - the kinds that might buy big luxury suites. But the team is complaining about just regular season tickets. Winnipeg would seem to have all kinds of businesses that could purchase season tickets: think doctors, lawyers, car dealerships, retail outlets, etc.

 

[Jedub]

In 2011 when the Jets came back people were so excited - they formed all kinds of groups and consortiums where season tickets would be shared between 4, 6 , 8 or more people. Over time a lot of those groups had people drop out, unable to recruit more to take their place. As well tickets became more affordable on the secondary market so people just started dropping their season ticket packages.

I know Winnipeg doesn't have a whole lot of corporate head offices - the kinds that might buy big luxury suites. But the team is complaining about just regular season tickets. Winnipeg would seem to have all kinds of businesses that could purchase season tickets: think doctors, lawyers, car dealerships, retail outlets, etc.

You know, True North could help the situation by treating season ticket holders more like friends and less like leaseholders. I don't recall ever getting a keychain, t-shirt, hat, because I have season tickets. They give you 10% off of the Jets store, whoop-de-do, guess I'll just spend the 5-10 bucks i save on a budweiser, if it's even enough.

I've left tickets at will call for people a few times this year and THREE times the tickets just...weren't there. The app said they were there, but they're not there, and TNSE removed the phone numbers to contact the will call from their website (an absolutely scummy move in order to save on customer support costs). Each time, I had to get a call from my frantic friend,and go over and over the issue with the person at the desk, until they just give up and print them new tickets. The last time, it was because the lady at the desk (who swore up and down theres no tickets, she knows what shes talking about, doesnt know what to tell me), couldn't read the computer program right, and after THIRTY MINUTES, a supervisor came over and told her that the flashing red light on her screen meant "PRINT TICKETS." Never do we get an apology, discount or freebie, or any kind of goodwill gesture in order to make us feel like we are actually valued by TNSE. The people I know who are dropping their season tickets cite two reasons: cost & being made to feel uncomfortable and unappreciated by TNSE. It costs them virtually nothing to plan a few cheap "Thank You Season Ticket Holder!" events and they just will not. They are the most boring, least attuned to their customer experience org. in the league.

Winnipeg has plenty of mid-to-high income peoeple who could buy up the remainding season tickets. TNSE will never convince them to by saying "give us more money or we'll leave,and everyone will be laughing at Winnipeg and saying "SEE!!! WE WERE RIGHT!!!." It just makes us laugh. I know a couple very wealthy people who couldn't give a shit about going to the games they have tickets for right now, they have no goodwill towards TNSE at all, the team was a disaster and a soap opera for the last few seasons, if not more; and still they love hockey and the Jets through-and-through.

/end rant

 

[Jedub]

I don't really think the title is clickbait. It's a direct quote of what Chipman said and it wasn't like they picked an out of context part of the quote and misconstrue it.

The title says the jets "aren't going to work over the long haul." What he actually said was that the amount of season ticket holders is too low and unsustainable.

The MLB shot down the Tampa Bay Rays plan of spending half of their 81 home games in Montreal, for good reason. Not only does that cut your fanbase in half but that's quite a wide geographical distance. All of your players would need apartments in two different countries, increased travel costs, etc.

Winnipeg-Quebec is roughly the same distance as the crow flies as Tampa-Montreal, but you would only have to deal with one singular country at least. Each city has a modern NHL facility. And only sitting 41 games instead of 81 would make the logistics a lot simpler. How impractical would it be for the Jets to split their home games with Quebec?

Completely impractical.

 

[Yukon Joe]

Winnipeg has plenty of mid-to-high income peoeple who could buy up the remainding season tickets. TNSE will never convince them to by saying "give us more money or we'll leave,and everyone will be laughing at Winnipeg and saying "SEE!!! WE WERE RIGHT!!!." It just makes us laugh. I know a couple very wealthy people who couldn't give a shit about going to the games they have tickets for right now, they have no goodwill towards TNSE at all, the team was a disaster and a soap opera for the last few seasons, if not more; and still they love hockey and the Jets through-and-through.

/end rant

I have to say as a Jets fan living in Edmonton for over 10 years - if you think the last few Jets season were a "disaster and a soap opera" - whoo boy, Winnipeg is in trouble when (not if) the Jets have to do a major re-tooling...

 

[Rob]

Is Winnipeg more economically depressed than other Canadian cities?

 

[Jedub]

I have to say as a Jets fan living in Edmonton for over 10 years - if you think the last few Jets season were a "disaster and a soap opera" - whoo boy, Winnipeg is in trouble when (not if) the Jets have to do a major re-tooling...

Well, definitely a soap opera, and a frustrating, disheartening one. Disaster is stretching it, but among the people I'm talking about, they are real hockey fans, and they have much more interest watching a team be built right than limping along to avoid a rebuild. The issue was more effort, and drama, not that they weren't top of the league.

 

[Yukon Joe]

Is Winnipeg more economically depressed than other Canadian cities?

No. At least compared to a place like Alberta, it doesn't get the extremely high highs, but it also avoids the extremely low lows. It just sort of chugs along.

List of cities in Canada by median household income - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

You can see here median income is about in the middle. Ontario and Alberta hold a lot of the top spots, Quebec and the maritimes a lot of the low spots.

Only looking at NHL cities it's 6th out of 7 though - with #7 Montreal being a lot larger a community.

 

[oldunclehue]

Is Winnipeg more economically depressed than other Canadian cities?

I think everywhere is struggling but the issue in Manitoba is we don’t have a “have” thing, an economic stimulator like oil in Alberta or potash in Sask. We don’t get high in regards to huge employment boom and investments from all over the world. But with that being said we have a large population under the poverty line and rent/costs going up more than any salaries or government supports is noticeable.

I was in the city recently, places that are typically busy, shopping mall areas, concert venues, restaurants were noticeably slower that before. My friend and I both noticed it.

I think it’s been coming at fans from multiple different angles here…much like anywhere.

- ticket prices, concession prices, parking, economic issues, no real stimulus to local economy and how True North treated its base for a long long time. It will be difficult to find new season ticket holders.

 

[No Fun Shogun]

Look, basically from the moment that the NHL returned to Winnipeg, we knew that the Jets were particularly at risk in the event of any kind of bad economic times. They're the smallest market, after all. That means they have less leeway or margin of error compared to larger cities.

That being said, I expect them to be fine longterm. Their ownership is insanely wealthy and I somehow doubt that they want to make themselves permanent personas non grata in Manitoba if they ever intimate a relocation threat.

 

[Yukon Joe]

Look, basically from the moment that the NHL returned to Winnipeg, we knew that the Jets were particularly at risk in the event of any kind of bad economic times. They're the smallest market, after all. That means they have less leeway or margin of error compared to larger cities.

That being said, I expect them to be fine longterm. Their ownership is insanely wealthy and I somehow doubt that they want to make themselves permanent personas non grata in Manitoba if they ever intimate a relocation threat.

Look, so I think Winnipeg is going to be fine.

But I also think David Thomson (Third Baron of Fleet) wouldn't be troubled in the slightest if he never stepped foot in Winnipeg ever again. As I understand it he splits his time between Toronto and London (UK).

Mark Chipman is more sensitive to the issue - but as I recall even Barry Shenkarow (last Jets 1.0 owner) was pretty fairly rehabilitated after the Jets 1.0 left.

 

[No Fun Shogun]

I completely forgot that a Jets owner was one of the holdover peers. Old money play titles will never not be funny to me.

 

[dj4aces]

As odd as it might sound, I do know folks in Winnipeg. One guy I've known for 22 years now, They were all thrilled when the team moved there. But they also feel like they're being emotionally manipulated with this whole call to action from TNSE/Chipman. The idea is, they're being made to feel like they should buy Jets tickets instead of pay for actual necessities.

This, I think, is why Bettman is participating in this event.

People seem to have taken those words to mean they should buy tickets, even if the message was directed to corporations. That's a sacrifice some folks are willing to make, but simply aren't able to due to their own economic situations.

In the long run, I think the Jets will be just fine. But I do think Chipman screwed up (twice now) by making the "unsustainable" comments public. What would the general public do, sell their organs to buy tickets? The fans in a market that lost their team should not have to endure scare tactics about losing another.

 

[Yukon Joe]

I completely forgot that a Jets owner was one of the holdover peers. Old money play titles will never not be funny to me.

So the Thomson's are by now old money (he is the Third Baron of Fleet after all), but he's not old, old money. His grandfather (Roy Thomson) who started up the family business with a radio station in northern Ontario, then expanding into newspapers. Apparently his ancestors were just tenant farmers from Scotland.

He was granted the title of Baron of Fleet in 1963 (and remember "Fleet Street" is the shorthand for British newspapers because of where so many were located).

You're free to find all of this funny, of course. As I understand it the Thomson family doesn't really insist on using their title - but neither have they renounced it.

 

[NextBigThing]

This is not a good look for Winnipeg. The signs have been there for a few years now. The honeymoon phase is long gone. Put up or shut up time. Either fill the barn every night or gas up the trucks and begin the journey back to Atlanta.

 

[Yukon Joe]

This is not a good look for Winnipeg. The signs have been there for a few years now. The honeymoon phase is long gone. Put up or shut up time. Either fill the barn every night or gas up the trucks and begin the journey back to Atlanta.

The honeymoon - now almost 13 years old - is clearly over.

The team is also clearly signaling the team needs to sell more tickets.

The team is not however moving any time soon. Both owners have deep investment in downtown Winnipeg real estate which are aided by the Jets being present there.

Could they move long-term? Sure. I'd put the Jets in at least the top 10 of relocation risks - maybe top 5. But it's not happening in 2024 or 2025.

 

[oldunclehue]

The honeymoon - now almost 13 years old - is clearly over.

The team is also clearly signaling the team needs to sell more tickets.

The team is not however moving any time soon. Both owners have deep investment in downtown Winnipeg real estate which are aided by the Jets being present there.

Could they move long-term? Sure. I'd put the Jets in at least the top 10 of relocation risks - maybe top 5. But it's not happening in 2024 or 2025.

I don’t forsee Thomson and Chipman allowing them to leave just based on the fact they have built so much around the arena and the success of those ventures revolves around having an NHL team. But I also know Thomson is the investor and Chipman the owner/operator. If things start down a losing path, investors are never happy unless money is coming in.

I’m curious long term their arena plans too. MTS centre works but people are souring to the experience. The seating is fairly uncomfortable and tight, location and parking isn’t great. So in 10-15-20 years what do they do? They would want it in that area as the area is mostly owned by TNSE.

On a side note I was offered a free ticket for a game last week. I turned it down as honestly, the overall experience doesn’t excite me. Driving downtown and parking and the cold, arena just was meh. So I watched from the comfort of my room.

 

[MeHateHe]

It seems to me that any business who believes their customers need the business more than the business needs the customers will soon be not a business anymore.