Bettman: NHL wants to make another world cup, players Association seems to have no interest

[Jon Riley]

to chest thump ? nope . And I like the stanley cup better than olympics or the world cup.
I like best on best tournaments, which is why I will watch the world shampionships, but it's still and invariably a " best of the rest" tournament.

Well, the Stanley cup is a best on best tournament, probably you can't be more best on best than that.
Do you have a favourite team or you just watch everything the same way?
If you have a favourite team, is it the one of your town or did you "pick it" randomly?
I support a team, the one that was the easiest to reach and watch. It became a habit, then a passion. The national team is the same. It is a good occasion to get to a bar with friends that would normally not care about the sport, watch a match, get drunk, have fun. Then it becomes a habit. Then a passion. International tournaments are just fun.

I ask, not rhetorically, what is the purpose of sport ? to find out who is the " best"? or to find out who is the best of those that were allowed to participate ? it they had a topurnament of steves, where all of the steves from different countries got together and played, would you care that your country's steves came out victorious ? Me I couldnt give two craps.

but I'm glad my hatred for the ioc came through,

Difficult question. From my perspective, to find out who is best in that particular moment, under those particular circumstances.
If we talk about hockey, we already know who is best. Canada is best. It does not matter if they lose badly because a the flu decimate the team during the tournament and they get relegate, or if they lose the semifinal, or whatever. Canada is the best.
If the purpose of the sport is only to find out who is the best, then we can shut down everything, because we already know.

For the steves thing..if I somehow cared about Steves sport, then probably i'd support my country* Steves, and enjoy the tournament.

All in all, I like to watch best on best, but it is not necessarily the only thing I can enjoy watching.

*I am not even sure about which one is my country at this point of my life, I am probably one the least nationalist person around. But then again opp Suisse

 

[Do Make Say Think]

The World Cup sucked.

I understand the NHL isn't happy with the IOC but this is a losing battle. The public and the players want the Olympics, find a way to make it work.

 

[Sugi21]

Just FYI, but the players get 50% of HRR, and of the World Cup is considered HRR. As a result, in years with the World Cup the NHLPA members "lose less to escrow" because there is additional HRR.

Just IMO, but the players dislike losing a portion of their salary to escrow, but don't seem to be willing to take the actions to minimize the impact when offered.

And I do get the promotional opportunity of the Olympics, but unfortunately the NHL just hasn't seen much "lift" from 20 years of participation. I really do feel for the International fans who have limited opportunities to see their national players actually play together. With that being said, if it's important to the players they have the ability to negotiate it as part of the CBA.

Thanks for sharing the info it shed some light on the situation!!! Exactly the next CBA negotiations is the one that the players and union need to step up if they truly want the Olympics

 

[The Macho King]

Gretzky played in a bunch of Canada cups and his biggest career regret was not winning Olympic gold. You can’t compare the other tourneys to the Olympics it’s just not the same.

... because he won everything else?

 

[sandysan]

Well, the Stanley cup is a best on best tournament, probably you can't be more best on best than that.
Do you have a favourite team or you just watch everything the same way?
If you have a favourite team, is it the one of your town or did you "pick it" randomly?
I support a team, the one that was the easiest to reach and watch. It became a habit, then a passion. The national team is the same. It is a good occasion to get to a bar with friends that would normally not care about the sport, watch a match, get drunk, have fun. Then it becomes a habit. Then a passion. International tournaments are just fun.


Difficult question. From my perspective, to find out who is best in that particular moment, under those particular circumstances.
If we talk about hockey, we already know who is best. Canada is best. It does not matter if they lose badly because a the flu decimate the team during the tournament and they get relegate, or if they lose the semifinal, or whatever. Canada is the best.
If the purpose of the sport is only to find out who is the best, then we can shut down everything, because we already know.

For the steves thing..if I somehow cared about Steves sport, then probably i'd support my country* Steves, and enjoy the tournament.

All in all, I like to watch best on best, but it is not necessarily the only thing I can enjoy watching.

*I am not even sure about which one is my country at this point of my life, I am probably one the least nationalist person around. But then again opp Suisse

The stanley cup playoffs are not best on best and they are not national. the team that wins can lay claim to being the best team. but not having the best players.
I have a favorite team that is based on where I grew up, I have a second favorite team, whoever is playing the bruins.
I also have at least one NHL player who came from my very smalish town. Do I like that player or the team he plays for more because of it ? nope. couldnt care less unless he's playing the bruins.

I don't think that canada is best ( on depth its probably true). but the steves thing is still hockey, its still a game but the players participating in it are not selected based on their ability but by some other metric ( in this case because they had the same name, steve). If my little town put EVERY steve on that team, would I care more about their fate ? nope. if they win, great. if they lose, great. I've never cared which team of steves was the best, win lose or draw. its artifice.

The steves is intentionally ridiculous, but its the same for tourneys that select the best players of those that are available. If team X cannot ice its best players ( because they are all in the SCP) and it loses, again what does that mean ? That team X without its best players is worse than team Y who iced theirs ? Again why would I care ?

and I posit, that at the highest levels, determining who is the best ( or the ability to make some sort of ranking function) IS the purpose of competitive sports. that why teams compete. that's why best on best is important, and why best of the rest tournys are so much much less.

 

[Jussi]

Not sure what this proves...big ice hockey sucks regardless of who wins

It means that instead of watching and enjoying entertaining hockey, you chose to complain online about something.

 

[ForumNamePending]

The league is obviously using the WCup as a negotiation and PR tactic. Unfortunately for the league I don't think fans nor players care enough about the WCup for it to be effective in any meaningful way. Really, the fact the first thing the league is willing to sacrifice is the WCup shows just how little the owners/HQ care about it as well.

 

[Lepardi]

Nobody but Gary wants that stupid hockey show. Give us the olympics dip****.

I'd rather have the World Cup than the Olympics. If you organize the World Cup in North America, it's easier to travel to from Finland and it's easier to get tickets. I also like to chew the fat with the locals. You can't do that in China.

But if Sweden hosts the 2026 Olympics, having the NHL there would be nice. It's so close. Italy wouldn't be bad either, even though that's another country where the locals can't speak English.

 

[Lepardi]

Yeah, we should just aspire to be like an organization that is so corrupt they awarded the World Cup to a country that is using essentially slave labor with the workforce dying at an astonishing rate to build stadiums that will basically be used once.

I think they'll all be used at least 3 times. There are a lot of matches in the World Cup.

 

[NoMessi]

Do you really think that is a valid comparison? Advertisement of known brands during one of the largest, if not the largest, sporting event in the US? Give me a break. Again, I ask you to provide proof of your claim that those expert opinions on players during the Olympics will lead to any meaningful growth. You asked people to back up that the NHL does not gain anything from the Olympics and I did that and now I am asking you to back up your claim.

I am not going to drop the point about the NHL not being able to use any Olympic media because that is the point. The NHL cannot use the Olympics to growth their brand.

As always you americans dont care or notice anything happening outside your borders. The Olympics is a big thing.

Ok dont drop it, but you just sound like a parrot since ive agreed with you on that one. They say that you cant tell a donkey its stupid, because it would be too stupid to understand.

Ive given you proof. I said that the revenue is up, the popularity is at an all time high and new countries develops players. Ive yet to see any proof on your stance, but maybe you will say the same thing one more time and thinking that it makes you look smart?

 

[Lepardi]

Probably, most of the european player in the league now barely new that the NHL even existed, when they were kids. It's the dream of the national team that pushed them.

In Finland this was true when Jari Kurri was a teenager. You couldn't really follow the NHL in Finland back then apart from maybe seeing some scores in the results section of the newspaper. When guys like Mikko Koivu and Valtteri Filppula were growing up, you could already watch NHL games on TV every now and then, and TV3 broadcast a weekly one-hour highlights show every Saturday. I'm pretty sure future NHLers tuned into that show.

Nowadays you can watch every single NHL game for 30 euros a month, and I bet guys like Sebastian Aho, Mikko Rantanen and Patrik Laine had seen plenty of NHL games before being drafted. This is something Mikko Rantanen drew when he was probably about 7 or 8 years old. He already knew about the Filadelfia Flyers, Pitspök Penguins and Martin Bröderö:

 

[um]

I’d enjoy the World Cup if it had a consistent presence and one outside of North America. And it needs a real qualifying method with actual countries, maybe use top 10 IIHF teams or top 6/7/8 then a small tourney between the next 6/7/8.

Give it time and do it right and it can gain prestige, and make the NHL and NHLPA money, which the Olympics can’t... directly at least.

I’d prefer if it wasn’t in September and it was in January/December when not much else is going on, but that’s too difficult, it certainly ruined the previous Olympics seasons having a few weeks off (sarcasm).

 

[Beukeboom Fan]

Basketballs popularity overseas shot up dramatically after the 1992 Olympics. Not my fault Gary can’t figure out a way to promote it.

Comparing the growth of a sport that requires very little equipment or infrastructure so anyone can play to hockey? But yeah , it is all Gary's fault!

The NHL hasn't been able to leverage Olympic involvement into growth. Maybe that is someone's fault. But at the end of the day, you can't blame them for not wanting to continue investing for no real return.

 

[NoMessi]

How does the fact big money is paid for commercial airtime for a NA audience in the midst of the biggest NA TV event in any way relate to the NHL/Olympic coverage?

People watch the Olympics so I'm sure companies like Visa, Samsung and Coca-Cola will pay money for commercial time...not sure how this connects to hockey or benefits the NHL or grows the NHL in any way (especially when most countries don't care about hockey/the host countries don't care about hockey)


Olympic (daily) viewership in the US has been in the 13-32 million range the last couple Olympics 2018 Winter Olympics Close Out as Least-Watched on Record, Down 7% From Sochi Games
The Super Bowl games have seen 163-172 million viewers over the same time

For a multiple day competition comparison, the Olympic viewership is similar to American Idol season viewership the first decade American Idol was on American Idol - Wikipedia

And as I answered to another poster, there is a world outside the USA. From a business stand point (which unfortunately is the only thing for NHL) Ofc NHL should work on getting more money from americans, but they should also try to get money from the rest of the world as well.

 

[Saltcreek]

As always you americans dont care or notice anything happening outside your borders. The Olympics is a big thing.

Ok dont drop it, but you just sound like a parrot since ive agreed with you on that one. They say that you cant tell a donkey its stupid, because it would be too stupid to understand.

Ive given you proof. I said that the revenue is up, the popularity is at an all time high and new countries develops players. Ive yet to see any proof on your stance, but maybe you will say the same thing one more time and thinking that it makes you look smart?

I live in Scotland. Try again.

Also, you have provided zero proof to counter what the NHL said. Give sources.

 

[Edenjung]

I obviously care about the level of play. That said, if you remove nations and put god-knows-whatever-monstrosity-they-will-produce-next-time at an international event, you do not have an international event anymore.

Ok, you despise the IOC and I am on board on that.
But do you like international tournaments?

Hä?
isn't that the definition of international?
working together despite being people from diffrent countries?
i think that is a great way to grow together.

 

[Nino33]

And as I answered to another poster, there is a world outside the USA. From a business stand point (which unfortunately is the only thing for NHL) Ofc NHL should work on getting more money from americans, but they should also try to get money from the rest of the world as well.

Actually saying "there is a world outside the USA" doesn't answer anything (makes you come across as a biased poster against NA/the NHL...especially when you have little to no facts to back up your views)

The NHL does "work on getting money from the rest of the world" they just don't do it in the way you want them to

The NHL has already played games in China and Europe (and more are coming).
The NHL is marketing the NHL and NHL hockey, they're not in it to market international play/national teams

 

[Nino33]

Hä?
isn't that the definition of international?
working together despite being people from diffrent countries?
i think that is a great way to grow together.

What makes you think international sporting competitions have been about "working together despite being people from different countries"?

They play competitive games, with the score kept to determine winners/losers and medals/awards handed out to winners (no working together), they're all divided up based on nationality (no working together)

What are you watching where athletes from are "working together" in international competition? Are you thinking of the World Cup's Team Europe and NA U23 team? This is the only example I can think of that has players of different nations "working together" in an (significant) international sporting competition...and the idea was hated by almost everyone, myself included

 

[Edenjung]

What makes you think international sporting competitions have been about "working together despite being people from different countries"?

They play competitive games, with the score kept to determine winners/losers and medals/awards handed out to winners (no working together), they're all divided up based on nationality (no working together)

What are you watching where athletes from are "working together" in international competition? Are you thinking of the World Cup's Team Europe and NA U23 team? This is the only example I can think of that has players of different nations "working together" in an (significant) international sporting competition...and the idea was hated by almost everyone, myself included

I was talking about the meaning of international. not international competetions.
two diffrent concepts.

 

[Nino33]

I was talking about the meaning of international. not international competetions.
two diffrent concepts.

Ah, OK....seems odd to bring up then given it's a thread about international sports/competition (and your point doesn't apply in any way I can see)

 

[Nino33]

As always you americans dont care or notice anything happening outside your borders.

I live in Scotland. Try again.

And as I answered to another poster, there is a world outside the USA.

FYI - I'm not American/don't live in the US

 

[TheSenator]

Bettman strong-armed the PA with the last Olympic negotiations.

There's no surprise he's trying to so the same again. This time they'll be more prepared. I expect 2022 Olympic hockey

 

[Edenjung]

Ah, OK....seems odd to bring up then given it's a thread about international sports/competition (and your point doesn't apply in any way I can see)

i know.
but in my opinio it would be nice if we could have an european team with players from little hockey countries like: the netherlands, germany, belgium, france, italy and austria.
that way you get at least abit attention in those countries. otherwise they won't care for the tournament.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

NHL owners want a World Cup in 2020 but the players dont care about it. NHLPA wants to go to the Olympics in 2022 but the Owners dont care about it.

...oh if only there was an incredibly obvious middle ground that could be reached... something that both sides could get what they want...oh I wonder...

I get that but it won't be that simple. Since the NHL doesn't make nearly the money off the Olympics they should and the NHLPA is actually cut in on a World Cup that doesn't quite get the negotiation across the finish line. They will want more than that to concede the Olympics.

There will probably be real pressure this time out of NBC though. With Matthews, Eichel, Hughes and the other big time US talents the network isn't going to be happy about them sitting at home and honestly their Ownership shouldn't be either from a marketing standpoint. They are truly there for the first time talent wise where hey this thing is 55/45 Canada, I don't know but as a Team USA hockey fan I will have gold as the goal/expectationg entering the China Olympics if Team USA participates. Not sure why the NHL would want to miss that in 25 of their markets and a country of a billions people hosting the games.

I think it gets done this time and I understand why Fehr has advised the players that care about the Olympics to have no commitment to the World Cup. However, I am with the owners that this isn't a like for like trade completely, something else is going to have to sweeten the pot. It would be nice if the players turned up the heat on the IOC too for highlight rights and some of the stuff the league really needs to make this a worthwhile venture, especially when it takes place at hours that what 75% (I think this is generous for the number of fans outside of Canada and USA that care for the NHL brand) of their consumers can really expect to see a ton of games live before waking up in the middle of the night for medal rounds.

 

[Jon Riley]

Hä?
isn't that the definition of international?
working together despite being people from diffrent countries?
i think that is a great way to grow together.

International means between nations.
There were two teams that did not represent any nation.