Best Run Franchises #1

[Baxterman]

The thing is Shanahan had to clean up the mess that was done by Brian Burke and Dave Nonis. He was also able to hire Mike Babcock as the Leafs coach when the Leafs haters out there said there was no chance Babcock is going to Toronto. He saw the potential to originally hire Kyle Dubas in July 2014 when he was 28 years old and you have to assume part of the reason Dubas was named GM this past May is because he knew other teams wanted to hire him away from Toronto.

None of that comes close to them being #1 though.

Sure they may have improved under Shanahan (still needs to be seen with results rather than pomp) but they are no where near the teams winning and competing for Cups.

 

[BHD]

Depends on how long we're talking... Nashville, Pittsburgh, or Tampa for me.

 

[TheMule93]

San Jose has gotta be up there too. Even pre-Karlsson trade. They kept their team at the top of the league since the lockout (more or less). Made tons of great acquisitions over the years. Good cap management. Finals appearance too.

 

[Sting]

Tampa
Nashville
Pittsburgh

lol @ people voting for Toronto. Evaluate them in 3-4 years. They haven't come close to a Finals appearance since 2001. They have righted the ship but have a long way to go before they are on the same level as the above teams.

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

I always thought the goal was to win championships I guess not for some reason Tampa who has not won a championship with their core is winning this poll over Pittsburgh who has 3 cups and 4 finals since 2008 or Chicago who has 3 cups since 2010

But somehow it's Tampa

This board has a strange obsession with Tampa. Somehow they're the cup favorite despite getting pummeled by Washington.

 

[ColbyChaos]

This poll is way too open ended and will pretty much just turn into a "what have you done for me lately" best gm thread while others would interpret this as a best franchise in terms of marketability/making their team really popular in their area. Fan outreach is an important aspect of being a well run franchise as well that no poster here has acknowledged, how many other teams have a giant convention every summer to meet the players like the Hawks and Cubs do annually? This board is stocking too much into team success when for example Carolina winning in 06 never meant they were a better run franchise than say Detroit for example.

 

[Brock Radunske]

Can't vote. If I could, Ottawa easily.

 

[trick9]

Pittspurgh. Winning matters.

Hilarious how they have less votes than the Toronto Maple Leafs.

 

[LeafsNation75]

None of that comes close to them being #1 though.

Sure they may have improved under Shanahan (still needs to be seen with results rather than pomp) but they are no where near the teams winning and competing for Cups.

So than why is Tampa getting so much praise? Yes I know they have been to a Stanley Cup Final in 2015 and Conference Final appearances in 2011, 2016 and 2018. However they have not won a Stanley Cup with their current core of players or their current management and owner.

 

[God King Fudge]

Ooooooooooooooooooo boy lots of salty tears over an arbitrary ranking in here .

 

[WetcoastOrca]

Pittspurgh. Winning matters.

Hilarious how they have less votes than the Toronto Maple Leafs.

Leafs have the biggest fan base and a lot are just homer voting. Skews a lot of the polls.
Not much you can do though other than laugh.

 

[God King Fudge]

So than why is Tampa getting so much praise? Yes I know they have been to a Stanley Cup Final in 2015 and Conference Final appearances in 2011, 2016 and 2018. However they have not won a Stanley Cup with their current core of players or their current management and owner.

There's a lot of well run teams that haven't done it. It's not the only measure of a franchise. It's the ultimate goal, but there's more to it than that. The two runaway favorites (though Nashville not as far apart) haven't won a Cup, but they've built their teams to win. Beyond that, what you do for your community, your fans, how your players and players around the league view your team as a destination. It all comes into account. People can shed tears all they want over Nashville and TB being two of the most respected franchises among fans, but they've earned it.

 

[DEVILS130]

Naturally this will closely mirror the results of the “Stanley Cup Favorites” poll...

Perhaps to make it more interesting - are there any teams that are run well but haven’t had as much on ice success? On the flip side are there any teams that have been successful on the ice despite not being run well?

 

[IceNeophyte]

Is Ottawa not an option?

 

[bambamcam4ever]

Nashville IMO, even if they haven't won the Cup yet.

If you're looking strictly at hockey moves, Tampa is probably the best recent example, but they do have the added benefit of no state income tax, and had to go the route of bottoming out to get two franchise players to build around (Stamkos and Hedman), which is a similar story to Pittsburgh. As great of a job as they've done at filling out their roster, when you get something like that with franchise players in consecutive years, it can completely turn your franchise's fortunes around, and in Pittsburgh's case, it did a complete 180 on their reputation.

It's been a slow burn for Nashville for sure, but that can be expected with an expansion team. They didn't catch lightning in a bottle in an early season like the Panthers or Knights, but they stuck through the growing pains with the same GM that has been there for 20 years to build a franchise that has been competitive for the last 15 years, and one of the best and most reliable franchises very recently. They've done so while establishing an identity and culture you can immediately identify with the team regardless of whether they've moved on from their franchise's best players like Weber and Suter, and they've built up a rabid fanbase in a place you wouldn't really expect to take off like it did, slowly working their way up the cap space chain as they can afford to.

You look at their draft history, and the only potential franchise guy (identified off the bat in their draft year) there was Seth Jones, and they traded him before he really broke out. Upshall, Legwand and obviously Suter were higher picks that contributed (Suter obviously to a huge degree), but the rest of that team was more or less built with shrewd signings/trades/draft picks.

The goal isn't to just "be competitive", it's not hard to build a borderline playoff team. They have 7 playoff series wins in the last 20 years.

 

[Baxterman]

So than why is Tampa getting so much praise? Yes I know they have been to a Stanley Cup Final in 2015 and Conference Final appearances in 2011, 2016 and 2018. However they have not won a Stanley Cup with their current core of players or their current management and owner.

Probably because as you say they went to a SCF, they have Conference Finals appearances, they have a quality roster that with a young core and young still developing pieces, they have a core that is mainly put together by their own drafting and developing.

I am not really sure why you read what I wrote and thought Tampa didn't fit?

They seem to have a very good mix of past results and future potential. Combine that with the fact that most of their pieces are homegrown which is a more sustainable way to build a team than by adding FA's and there really isn't any reason they shouldn't be in the mix for the top spot.

Is there something you see that would have them out of the consideration?

If this is an issue with them being considered and the Leafs not it is pretty easy as you yourself mention they have SCF and conference finals appearances that the Leafs haven't come close to. That makes a huge difference. They also have a better roster going forward in my view but that isn't worth debating as their past results already put them way ahead of the Leafs in this exercise.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Probably because as you say they went to a SCF, they have Conference Finals appearances, they have a quality roster that with a young core and young still developing pieces, they have a core that is mainly put together by their own drafting and developing.

I am not really sure why you read what I wrote and thought Tampa didn't fit?

They seem to have a very good mix of past results and future potential. Combine that with the fact that most of their pieces are homegrown which is a more sustainable way to build a team than by adding FA's and there really isn't any reason they shouldn't be in the mix for the top spot.

Is there something you see that would have them out of the consideration?

If this is an issue with them being considered and the Leafs not it is pretty easy as you yourself mention they have SCF and conference finals appearances that the Leafs haven't come close to. That makes a huge difference. They also have a better roster going forward in my view but that isn't worth debating as their past results already put them way ahead of the Leafs in this exercise.

As some other people have said if winning championships should be a factor shouldn't Pittsburgh be #1 based on that alone?

 

[Kamiccolo]

None of that comes close to them being #1 though.

Sure they may have improved under Shanahan (still needs to be seen with results rather than pomp) but they are no where near the teams winning and competing for Cups.

Leafs are so underrated on HF it is insane. There are only a few teams who can match the talent the Leafs have this year. Not their fault that their best players couldn't even buy legal beer in the states before this season.

To claim they are not close to a cup is hilarious. Can't wait to see the excuses and "Everyone had them being a cup contender" next offseason when people pretend AGAIN that the haters were never wrong.

 

[Baxterman]

As some other people have said if winning championships should be a factor shouldn't Pittsburgh be #1 based on that alone?

Well I did in fact vote Pittsburgh #1, although I think TB is close.

But winning championships are a factor not THE factor. Otherwise we would just list the teams with the most titles and be done.

Everyone will have their own way of evaluating so for some it may be just that simple to say most titles=best.

For me I take more things into consideration. I think the outlook going forward is something to consider so a team like Chicago that has a lot of titles, worth consideration, would rank lower because they don't have a great outlook going forward. So yes they did a great job of building a title winning team but as an organization have failed at sustaining that success.

I also look at how a team was built. So teams that have done more through drafting get a higher rank for me because it is more likely that you can repeat that process versus adding FA's that usually come at a high premium salary wise. It also though creates a bit of a problem for me having Pitt one as I doubt they can repeat adding Crosby and Malkin in back to back years but I do credit them with being able to make smart moves adding guys like Kessel, Sheary, Murray and Guentzel to the team to work with those guys which kind of has me overlooking that a bit.

It is a tough exercise and people can take many approaches to it.

I will ask again, based on your user name and post that I was replying to that you quoted, is this a Maple Leafs issue? Because there is no rational way they can be ranked number 1.

 

[Baxterman]

Leafs are so underrated on HF it is insane. There are only a few teams who can match the talent the Leafs have this year. Not their fault that their best players couldn't even buy legal beer in the states before this season.

To claim they are not close to a cup is hilarious. Can't wait to see the excuses and "Everyone had them being a cup contender" next offseason when people pretend AGAIN that the haters were never wrong.

The bolded part was in relation to teams that have already won and competed for Cups. If you actually read the post and the context that it was made that would be clear but instead you are so hell bent on being offended about your precious Leafs you just look for what you want.

And they aren't close to a Cup yet, they haven't even made it out of the first round. If you want to argue if they should be considered one of the contenders this upcoming year sure maybe they are but in terms of ranking organizations the Leafs have not been a Cup contender.

 

[LeafsNation75]

I will ask again, based on your user name and post that I was replying to that you quoted, is this a Maple Leafs issue? Because there is no rational way they can be ranked number 1.

Maybe the Leafs should not be voted as the #1 team in this category, however I do think that Brendan Shanahan should get the same amount of credit Steve Yzerman got while he was Tampa Bay's GM. Considering what he's done since being hired in 2014 has been nothing short of spectacular.

 

[Baxterman]

Maybe the Leafs should not be voted as the #1 team in this category, however I do think that Brendan Shanahan should get the same amount of credit Steve Yzerman got while he was Tampa Bay's GM. Considering what he's done since being hired in 2014 has been nothing short of spectacular.

They have finished last, WC (out in the first round) and 3rd in the division (out in the first round), that is not spectacular at all.

Yzerman built teams that got to the SCF and ECF multiple times, there is really no comparison at all. So no Shanahan doesn't get credit for getting Leaf fans excited he will get credit when we see results on the ice.

 

[LeafsNation75]

They have finished last, WC (out in the first round) and 3rd in the division (out in the first round), that is not spectacular at all.

Yzerman built teams that got to the SCF and ECF multiple times, there is really no comparison at all. So no Shanahan doesn't get credit for getting Leaf fans excited he will get credit when we see results on the ice.

Obviously this was luck but if the Leafs never finished last they don't have Auston Matthews.

The only reason they got the 2nd Wild Card spot was due to Boston having more ROW wins that season, because both teams were tied in points.

Last season the Leafs finished with a franchise record in wins and points.

So they have gone from 69 points - 95 points - 105 points in 3 years all under Shanahan.

 

[Baxterman]

Obviously this was luck but if the Leafs never finished last they don't have Auston Matthews.

The only reason they got the 2nd Wild Card spot was due to Boston having more ROW wins that season, because both teams were tied in points.

Last season the Leafs finished with a franchise record in wins and points.

So they have gone from 69 points - 95 points - 105 points in 3 years all under Shanahan.

Here is the issue I think you are having with the current Shanahan conversation and the thread in general.

Saying what Shanahan did wasn't spectacular doesn't mean I think it was crap it just means it wasn't spectacular. The Leafs have had an impressive rise and it may lead to spectacular things for them but up to this point it hasn't.

Similarly just because the Leafs are not ranked #1 here or even in consideration doesn't mean they are crap. They have done well and maybe as soon as next season will be in the running for #1 but right now despite the good things they have done they aren't in the running for the top spot.

I understand that many Leafs fans are excited but it seems like too many of them want to give Shanahan/Dubas/the team in general credit for how they think the team will do this year instead of having the patience to wait to see how it plays out.

 

[LeafsNation75]

I understand that many Leafs fans are excited but it seems like too many of them want to give Shanahan/Dubas/the team in general credit for how they think the team will do this year instead of having the patience to wait to see how it plays out.

Shouldn't there be something said about how Shanahan originally hired Dubas and prior to him being named Leafs GM the Avalanche wanted to interview him for some executive level position in the summer of 2017 that the Leafs did not give them permission. Plus Dubas name was also linked to other GM jobs for other teams. So if those teams wanted to get him away from the Leafs obviously they see the same thing Leafs fans already knew about.