Best player getting no hype

[Sky04]

I think he's better than Eric Staal, but I can see the argument. I do think he is clearly better than Koivu.

Monahan is tricky as he has established himself as a consistent 60-65 point player. I think Nico will do that this year, along with play driving and two-way skills.

I'm not even going to entertain Duchene. Dude has been a 50-60 point player his whole career and is riding a 16% on-ice shooting percentage. Crosby and McDavid have career on-ice shooting percentages at 12%. I'll let you decide whether that's sustainable.

What an idiotic opinion, guys yet to hit to numbers and you have him above guys who have, horrible logic.

Duchene and monohan are leagues better than him right now and it's not close, if it were your team wouldn't suck so bad.

 

[1972]

You acknowledge it's important; I point out Hischier has been elite at this stat since he's entered the league; I use it as evidence that Hischier is a number one center;

Where is the disconnect here?

Guess Nazem Kadri is to. Buddy, using penatlies drawn to say “he’s a number one centre” when the production says otherwise is silly. He doesn’t produce like a number one centre, plain and simple he isn’t one. In the future? I think so, but not today.

 

[Hyzer]

Homer mention: Bo Horvat

33 GP, 28 points, 14G, 14A. 54% of the F/O dot. He currently has more than 100 more faceoffs than the next person (which is Barkov) at 834 FO.

He is also straddled with the worst wingers in the game and hes still producing like this. Monster season he is having so far.

 

[NJ DevLolz]

What an idiotic opinion, guys yet to hit to numbers and you have him above guys who have, horrible logic.

Duchene and monohan are leagues better than him right now and it's not close, if it were your team wouldn't suck so bad.

Such a bad argument. Keep trying.

My team wouldn't suck so badly if one of our goalies could make a save and our #2 center had more than 4 points. Pretty simple, really.

 

[KasperTheGrittyGhost]

I didn’t read through the whole thread, but I don’t think people realize the jump Larkin has taken. 2pts shy of a PPG, and he’s almost singlehandedly holding the wings up from being the worst team in the NHL.

 

[NJ DevLolz]

Guess Nazem Kadri is to. Buddy, using penatlies drawn to say “he’s a number one centre” when the production says otherwise is silly. He doesn’t produce like a number one centre, plain and simple he isn’t one. In the future? I think so, but not today.

I already addressed this in an earlier post, so I'm not going to repeat myself.

 

[AKL]

1) You must know a lot of GMs. Ask them to give the Devils a 2C and starting goalie please!

2) Koivu's point totals the last 4 full seasons he's played: 45, 58, 56, 48

3) 30 games? How about going back to his 18 year old rookie season a year ago?
Todd Cordell‏ @ToddCordell
Nico Hischier's rookie season: • 82 games played • 52 points • 2.58 5v5 points/60 (25th in NHL) • +22 penalty differential (5th in NHL) • +11.7 Goals For Rel% at 5v5

Damn you Hischier for not controlling your toi and getting PP1 time!

1) Don't personally know any GM's, call it an educated guess.

2)Hischier last season: 52 points (since apparently last season's points matter).

3) Points per 60 is a flawed stat and drawing more penalties than you take doesn't make you a 1C. Should we talk about his downright putrid faceoff %? His lack of a high end two-way game? 14th on his own team in D zone starts? 31st in the league in quality of linemates, yet 89th in quality of competition? 57th among centers for scoring?

You're cherry picking the few stats that make him look like he could be a 1C and ignoring the vastly more numerous stats that make him look like he isn't a 1C.

EDIT for the bolded: LOL he leads the Devils in PP TOI/g, how are you blaming his lack of PP time for his lack of production.

 

[GORDIEHOWE]

Rangers, Hurricanes, Blue Jackets, Canadiens, Golden Knights, Coyotes, Flames, Sens, Wild.

I think the bolded are debatable, but you get the point.

Aho>Hischier

 

[1972]

I already addressed this in an earlier post, so I'm not going to repeat myself.

Good.

 

[NJ DevLolz]

1) Don't personally know any GM's, call it an educated guess.

2)Hischier last season: 52 points (since apparently last season's points matter).

3) Points per 60 is a flawed stat and drawing more penalties than you take doesn't make you a 1C. Should we talk about his downright putrid faceoff %? His lack of a high end two-way game? 14th on his own team in D zone starts? 31st in the league in quality of linemates, yet 89th in quality of competition? 57th among centers for scoring?

You're cherry picking the few stats that make him look like he could be a 1C and ignoring the vastly more numerous stats that make him look like he isn't a 1C.

Hischier played an average of 16:19 last year, which I don't think I need to tell you isn't anything near 1C ice time. Do you think that's his fault, or do you think the Devils coaching staff had a plan?

P/60 isn't a perfect stat, but it outlines how efficient of a player he was last year at even strength. When you look at primary points/60 he was even higher (14th in the league). So yeah, he certainly wasn't racking up cheap points/secondary assists.

 

[42]

Recently it's Rantanen.

 

[AKL]

Hischier played an average of 16:19 last year, which I don't think I need to tell you isn't anything near 1C ice time. Do you think that's his fault, or do you think the Devils coaching staff had a plan?

P/60 isn't a perfect stat, but it outlines how efficient of a player he was last year at even strength. When you look at primary points/60 he was even higher (14th in the league). So yeah, he certainly wasn't racking up cheap points/secondary assists.

Hischier also had the benefit of playing with the MVP of the league last year, an actual elite, dynamic scorer.
Again, P/60 doesn't really mean anything. Scoring isn't directly correlated with time on ice. It's not linear. It's a visual tool, it's not an effective measuring stick, and it's certainly not a predictor of scoring.

I like how you ignored almost everything about my post except, again, the couple parts that you could address without admitting he's not a 1C.

 

[WJCJ]

David Krejci

I was going to say that. All I ever read here is that he is overpaid and getting old.

 

[Canadienna]

Shea Weber

Other than his recent injuries, there is absolutely nothing to complain about with this guy if you watch his game. He's not speedy, but he's fast, and he can jump up on plays and get back. All I hear from people who don't watch him is that he's slow.

He's also supremely physical and has great defensive metrics. He plays ~25 minutes a night, paired with Benn, Schlemko or Kulak. Eg. Was a -1 last night in a 7-1 blowout.

He has the best shot (power/accuracy) of any defensemen in the league. He's an insane weapon on the PP and scores a ton of PP goals every year.

But it seems he's seen on here as a liability for the Habs because he's signed long term, Any GM would do whatever they could to take his contract on, he's an elite #1D man.

Also,

PK Subban is still better.

 

[NJ DevLolz]

Hischier also had the benefit of playing with the MVP of the league last year, an actual elite, dynamic scorer.
Again, P/60 doesn't really mean anything. Scoring isn't directly correlated with time on ice. It's not linear. It's a visual tool, it's not an effective measuring stick, and it's certainly not a predictor of scoring.

I like how you ignored almost everything about my post except, again, the couple parts that you could address without admitting he's not a 1C.

• Faceoffs are one of the most overrated aspects of hockey. It's 2018, let's move on... Searching for a link between winning faceoffs and NHL games
• Speaking of overrated stats- zone starts is one! You do realize most shifts start on the fly, right? Beware of What Zone Starts are Telling You, Part II: Shot Metrics - NHL Numbers
• QoC and QoT are not really that far apart. There are over 500 skaters who play in the NHL.......
• When you adjust for p/g, Hischier is 43rd. I outlined in a previous post that I found nearly 10 skaters who are not primarily used as centers. You do know NHL.com is probably the worst place to go to for stats, right?
• Using rate stats for Hischier are fine because he played a full season. He wasn't some 4th line scrub who played half the games. The beauty of using filters!

Here is an interesting blurb from Devils beat writer, Corey Masisak, posted a couple of weeks ago (PAYWALL).

Searching for answers: A player-by-player report on the...

"Nico Hischier
Production: 4 goals, 13 points, 19 games, 46 SOG
Possession: 52.77 CF%, 54.25 SCF%, 66.02 HDCF%, 50.0% GF
Ice time: 17:40 total, 13:31 ES, 3:38 PP, 0:31 SH
Linemates: Hall (18 games), Palmieri (17)
What stands out: This is pretty easy — the Devils are getting two-thirds of the high-danger chances when Hischier is on the ice at 5-on-5, but only half of the goals. He has 40 high-danger shot attempts (28 at 5-on-5) and just four goals. Of the 467 skaters with at least 200 minutes of 5-on-5 ice time so far this season, Hischier ranks 5th in individual high-danger chances per 60 minutes (6.88). Like Hall, it’s likely more goals are coming."

 

[rynryn]

Dumba is getting a lot of love lately so can't say him anymore.
Granlund though is quietly being very good with little love.

 

[1972]

Hischier also had the benefit of playing with the MVP of the league last year, an actual elite, dynamic scorer.
Again, P/60 doesn't really mean anything. Scoring isn't directly correlated with time on ice. It's not linear. It's a visual tool, it's not an effective measuring stick, and it's certainly not a predictor of scoring.

I like how you ignored almost everything about my post except, again, the couple parts that you could address without admitting he's not a 1C.

But those penatlies drawn statistics are borderline generational.

 

[MrThomas]

All Mikko’s

Mikko Koivu (one of the best captain and selke finalist)
Mikko Rantanen (league leader but everybody think its luck)
Mikko Koskinen (the guy who saved Edmonton Oilers)

 

[Sky04]

If Hischier's your number 1C, you probably play as well as New Jersey does. He's one by default and speaks more to their pathetic depth at C than his actual abilities.

 

[Sky04]

Such a bad argument. Keep trying.

My team wouldn't suck so badly if one of our goalies could make a save and our #2 center had more than 4 points. Pretty simple, really.

And your "number 1c" doesn't do enough, simple really.

 

[voyageur]

I'll be diplomatic and pick an American, playing in Canada, Colin White.

 

[RedHawkDown]

Dylan Larkin

 

[PizzaAndPucks]

Evgeni Dadanov has been flying under tbe radar as well as Mike Hoffman. Few other guys would be Kase on the ducks and Timo Meier.

 

[AKL]

Evgeni Dadanov has been flying under tbe radar as well as Mike Hoffman. Few other guys would be Kase on the ducks and Timo Meier.

I was actually shocked to see Meier scoring at a point per game this season. He is definitely a good name for this thread.

 

[Allan92]

Scheifele? No, defense isn't the strongest of his abilities but overall he is the Jets best player. Great offensively and certainly holds his own on defense but nowhere close to selke level. Nobody on the Jets is. Been watching him since 16-17 season, pretty much every game he has played.

Like I said I've only seen 3

But in those three he was defensively sound, always had the Puck and actually stripped a dman on the backcheck and used the puck to set up a teammate on the same play

But I'll take your word for it