Confirmed with Link: Bertuzzi signs two-year deal

[datsyukfan]

I think this deal just allows Stevie to see where the team is at. If this team takes a good jump with some of the young kids progressing plus the players in that 23-26 years old range progressing and leading the team then I think stevie is more inclined to keep the likes of Vrana, Bert, Fabbri, Suter, Hronek, etc but if we struggle and he feels it is going to take a lot more time I could see a lot of those guys moved out for future assets or prospects

 

[Revenge of Gru]

Far from a mistake. Bertuzzi is good not great and is not some major piece that needs a long term deal. He is a secondary piece, not a key piece. People are overdoing how good he is.

I disagree. One of the reasons Tampa took 10 years and a new GM to win a cup was because Yzerman doesn't appreciate players like Bert.

 

[Run the Jewels]

The concern with players like Bert is they do not age well. We got his absolute prime with this current contract, but he will likely see his play fall off once he hits age 28. I wouldn't be surprised to see him moved this trade deadline, that would likely be when he would garner the best return. His prime simply doesn't match up with when our window will open up and if you keep him past his current contract you are going to get a guy on the downside of his career who will likely be signed to a bad contract. That sucks, but you have to be realistic, and Yzerman strikes me as a realist.

 

[Run the Jewels]

I disagree. One of the reasons Tampa took 10 years and a new GM to win a cup was because Yzerman doesn't appreciate players like Bert.

Yzerman definitely overvalued Ryan Callahan, who is a very similar player to Bert.

 

[jkutswings]

I disagree. One of the reasons Tampa took 10 years and a new GM to win a cup was because Yzerman doesn't appreciate players like Bert.

That's a major oversimplification. It would be like saying the Wings didn't win for several years in the 90s because Detroit brass didn't yet appreciate guys like Shanahan.

Did Tampa add some grit over time, and did that element help in their eventual championships? Yes. But winning Cups is hard, and taking several years to break through isn't an automatic indictment on how skill sets are prioritized.

I mean, it's not like their "skill" players weren't carrying the mail when they won it all. Hypothetically, had Tampa changed things up earlier for more grit - and then, for whatever reasons they did not win it all for another few years - I'm sure some fans would say they messed things up with not enough skill, even if that had nothing to do with the outcome.

 

[Revenge of Gru]

Where on earth do you get this opinion from? Pretty sure most of the back to back Cup winning team was Steve's doing.

Yzerman inherited Stamkos and Hedman. He wasted 2 top 10 picks on Connelly and Koekoek. Drouin was a questionable pick he salvaged in trade. He definitely was GM when they acquired Gourde, Kuch, Pointe, Palat, Sergachev, McDonagh... About half the team were Yzerman acquisitions when they won the cup. That's not to say he's a bad GM. He's just not the god people make him out to be. Take the Leddy trade for example. Dumb. Really dumb. Holland would have been crucified for that move. Yzerman gets praised. We don't have a single player on the roster that Yzerman drafted as Wing's GM and people say we've turned the corner on the rebuild.

 

[BStinson]

Yeah true, but everyone around the NHL knows Yzerman fleeced the Caps with that deal. I'm not sure we will be able to return all that for Bertuzzi, especially if it's during the 22-23 season when he will be a UFA at the end of the season.

I wouldn’t say everyone around the league. After the trade there was a anonymous GM I believe in the Athletic saying they would’ve beat that offer. Hard to say what would’ve been included in that offer considering no details were given but what it does say is that Mantha was still held at high regard even if he wasn’t motivated in Detroit.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

I disagree. One of the reasons Tampa took 10 years and a new GM to win a cup was because Yzerman doesn't appreciate players like Bert.

With the cap being where it was during Yzerman's tenure the opportunity to add Goodrow and Coleman wasn't there. Same with Maroon who took a paycut to have a shot at a championship with Tampa. Also look at the kind of forwards and defensemen that Yzerman was drafting from 2015 on. He wanted gritty competitive types which is why he drafted Adam Erne, the Foote brothers, traded for Cernak, JT Miller, McDonagh, etc.

What Yzerman realizes is that you don't build your core out of Tyler Bertuzzis, Nick Folignos, Blake Colemans and Yanni Gourdes. Those are the kinds of players you add to your core to push them over the top. It's not that he doesn't value them. It's that he doesn't value them as much as Hedman or Stamkos or Point or Kucherov. And rightfully so.

Tampa Bay went to the conference finals 4 times under Yzerman. And to the Stanley cup finals once when they were beaten by a dynasty so it's not like they were completely lacking while there. The unceremonious sweep by Columbus in 2019 was a failure of the whole team. Grit played a part but that was only a small part of it. They were outplayed in pretty much all areas and the team's stars didn't rise to the occasion. Again, it had next to nothing to do with Yzerman not having enough grit on the roster or undervaluing the Bertuzzi's of the game. Just like the 03 Wings losing to the ducks had little to do with a lack of grit on the roster.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

An understandable decision in an unfortunate set of circumstances.

 

[jkutswings]

Take the Leddy trade for example. Dumb. Really dumb. Holland would have been crucified for that move. Yzerman gets praised.

How exactly is this a dumb move? It's a veteran middle pairing guy who can start transition with the puck. That's a skill set the current roster needs. Now had this move immediately been followed with a 6 year extension, then yeah, I'd call that dumb. But it's a short term move for stabilization and sheltering the upcoming kids.

We don't have a single player on the roster that Yzerman drafted as Wing's GM and people say we've turned the corner on the rebuild.

Turned the corner (debatably) in the sense that the roster for this year - on paper - no longer looks like a lock for bottom 5. And that's for several reasons, including trades (Vrana, Nedeljkovic, Leddy), free agency (Suter), and the draft (Seider).

Is Yzerman infallible? Certainly not. And he's already made a move here and there that wasn't great. But the majority of the changes to this point have changed things for the better, at least in terms of shedding bad deals on has-beens and adding draft capital (that already shows some encouraging early development with guys like Seider/Raymond/Berggren).

I think some fans are jumping the gun a bit because the roster is finally showing a few signs of life after several years of being both horrendous and filled with guys not in the long term plans.

 

[Revenge of Gru]

How exactly is this a dumb move? It's a veteran middle pairing guy who can start transition with the puck. That's a skill set the current roster needs. Now had this move immediately been followed with a 6 year extension, then yeah, I'd call that dumb. But it's a short term move for stabilization and sheltering the upcoming kids.



Turned the corner (debatably) in the sense that the roster for this year - on paper - no longer looks like a lock for bottom 5. And that's for several reasons, including trades (Vrana, Nedeljkovic, Leddy), free agency (Suter), and the draft (Seider).

Is Yzerman infallible? Certainly not. And he's already made a move here and there that wasn't great. But the majority of the changes to this point have changed things for the better, at least in terms of shedding bad deals on has-beens and adding draft capital (that already shows some encouraging early development with guys like Seider/Raymond/Berggren).

I think some fans are jumping the gun a bit because the roster is finally showing a few signs of life after several years of being both horrendous and filled with guys not in the long term plans.

Trading a 2nd and Cholowski for one year of Leddy is a waste of assets. What does that get you? 3% worse lottery odds? That's dumb no matter how you cut it. Where is the elite talent that we got for tanking? Are we really building around a winger and a defenseman? That's the plan? Raymond and Seider are going to carry us to the cup? Or are we saying that Holland's acquisitions Veleno, Larkin, Bergrenn, Zadina, Bert and Rasmussen are the core until Yzerman trades them for futures? We don't have a single elite centerman in the entire organization. Where is that coming from? Yzerman traded away a ton of picks this year. Where are you getting extra picks next year? Apparently dumping Bert. Where and when are you replacing him?
The Ned trade looks like a great move.
Leddy looks flat idiotic.
Losing Cholowski for nothing? Dumb.
What does the lineup look like in 3 years?

 

[Revenge of Gru]

I think this deal just allows Stevie to see where the team is at. If this team takes a good jump with some of the young kids progressing plus the players in that 23-26 years old range progressing and leading the team then I think stevie is more inclined to keep the likes of Vrana, Bert, Fabbri, Suter, Hronek, etc but if we struggle and he feels it is going to take a lot more time I could see a lot of those guys moved out for future assets or prospects

I think it's the latter. I don't think a single player on this roster wins a cup as a Red Wing. Larkin has an outside shot but I doubt it. He'll probably be 34-35 by the time we're close.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Trading a 2nd and Cholowski for one year of Leddy is a waste of assets. What does that get you? 3% worse lottery odds? That's dumb no matter how you cut it. Where is the elite talent that we got for tanking? Are we really building around a winger and a defenseman? That's the plan? Raymond and Seider are going to carry us to the cup? Or are we saying that Holland's acquisitions Veleno, Larkin, Bergrenn, Zadina, Bert and Rasmussen are the core until Yzerman trades them for futures? We don't have a single elite centerman in the entire organization. Where is that coming from? Yzerman traded away a ton of picks this year. Where are you getting extra picks next year? Apparently dumping Bert. Where and when are you replacing him?
The Ned trade looks like a great move.
Leddy looks flat idiotic.
Losing Cholowski for nothing? Dumb.
What does the lineup look like in 3 years?

Cholowski is a trash minor league level defenseman. Losing him for nothing is not dumb. Picking him in the first place was dumb.
Leddy is a legit top 4 defenseman who can help mentor our young defenseman. He also helps Detroit get over the cap floor
Leddy is also on a UFA contract and if he plays halfway decent is an appreciating asset (52nd overall pick in a wonky draft that can probably be flipped for a late 1st in a deeper draft.)
Leddy also fills a gigantic hole on LD that we could not have filled internally with anyone other than Danny DeKeyser.

The goal shouldn't be lottery win or Stanley cup for the season to be considered an outright success. Would it be great to get Shane Wright on this team? Definitely. Should we race to the bottom with other trash franchises that are already poised to tank WAY harder than Detroit? f*** no.

What we should be trying to do is improve bit by bit, season after season. Right now our "core", if you can even call it that is Larkin, Bertuzzi and Hronek. I think you'll see Detroit move on from 2 of these 3 players by 2023 or 2024. And we'll have hopefully injected more talent into the lineup over that timeframe to get into the postseason and surprise some people.

 

[Revenge of Gru]

Larkin and Bertuzzi for Eichel works. Raymond and/or Berggren replaces Bert.

Neither Raymond or Berggren will bring what Bert brings and I will pass on the neck replacement candidate.

 

[Revenge of Gru]

Cholowski is a trash minor league level defenseman. Losing him for nothing is not dumb. Picking him in the first place was dumb.
Leddy is a legit top 4 defenseman who can help mentor our young defenseman. He also helps Detroit get over the cap floor
Leddy is also on a UFA contract and if he plays halfway decent is an appreciating asset (52nd overall pick in a wonky draft that can probably be flipped for a late 1st in a deeper draft.)
Leddy also fills a gigantic hole on LD that we could not have filled internally with anyone other than Danny DeKeyser.

The goal shouldn't be lottery win or Stanley cup for the season to be considered an outright success. Would it be great to get Shane Wright on this team? Definitely. Should we race to the bottom with other trash franchises that are already poised to tank WAY harder than Detroit? f*** no.

What we should be trying to do is improve bit by bit, season after season. Right now our "core", if you can even call it that is Larkin, Bertuzzi and Hronek. I think you'll see Detroit move on from 2 of these 3 players by 2023 or 2024. And we'll have hopefully injected more talent into the lineup over that timeframe to get into the postseason and surprise some people.

Cholo was absolutely worth a pick. Seatle apparently believed he was worth more than Stecher.
Who is poised to tank harder than this team? They're not going to be good next year. At all. Even a little.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Cholo was absolutely worth a pick. Seatle apparently believed he was worth more than Stecher.
Who is poised to tank harder than this team? They're not going to be good next year. At all. Even a little.

Nobody here is expecting them to make the playoffs but for a team that was around 0.500 from the end of february to the end of the season in probably the toughest division in the league? It's not crazy to think they are poised to finish anywhere from 8th to 12th, especially when you consider Anaheim, Buffalo, Arizona, Montreal and Columbus all became worse this offseason. The Sharks didn't get any better and are currently dealing with a scandal involving their top scorer. Seattle picked the worst roster they could possibly have picked. Ottawa also made zero improvements, and might even be worse next year.

So...yeah. There's 8 teams that all look to be worse than Detroit next year.

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

Nobody here is expecting them to make the playoffs but for a team that was around 0.500 from the end of february to the end of the season in probably the toughest division in the league? It's not crazy to think they are poised to finish anywhere from 8th to 12th, especially when you consider Anaheim, Buffalo, Arizona, Montreal and Columbus all became worse this offseason. The Sharks didn't get any better and are currently dealing with a scandal involving their top scorer. Seattle picked the worst roster they could possibly have picked. Ottawa also made zero improvements, and might even be worse next year.

So...yeah. There's 8 teams that all look to be worse than Detroit next year.

I'd add NJ to make it 9 teams. $21M Capspace left.

Their F's are worse & certainly not as deep.

Hamilton-Severson-Graves-Smith isn't terrible, but still has question marks.

G looks great.

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

Neither Raymond or Berggren will bring what Bert brings and I will pass on the neck replacement candidate.

Sure.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

I'd add NJ to make it 9 teams. $21M Capspace left.

Their F's are worse & certainly not as deep.

Hamilton-Severson-Graves-Smith isn't terrible, but still has question marks.

G looks great.

Not to mention they are playing in a rock solid metropolitan division.

I think with the additions of Bernier and Hamilton they're going to try and make a go of things with their kids. Zacha, Hischier and Hughes is a decent trio of centers. Holtz is probably a full time NHLer next year (which makes them passing up on Eklund almost egregious at this point) and they have maybe one other legit top 6 winger. Like Detroit, I don't expect NJD to play much above the cap floor. They're currently at 60.275 mil with 2 RFAs to qualify and maybe they make a run at a top 6 or top 9 winger on free agency. Tomas Tatar wouldn't be a bad addition to their team with the lack of quality top 6 wingers left.

 

[Revenge of Gru]

Nobody here is expecting them to make the playoffs but for a team that was around 0.500 from the end of february to the end of the season in probably the toughest division in the league? It's not crazy to think they are poised to finish anywhere from 8th to 12th, especially when you consider Anaheim, Buffalo, Arizona, Montreal and Columbus all became worse this offseason. The Sharks didn't get any better and are currently dealing with a scandal involving their top scorer. Seattle picked the worst roster they could possibly have picked. Ottawa also made zero improvements, and might even be worse next year.

So...yeah. There's 8 teams that all look to be worse than Detroit next year.

Where is all this improvement on the Wings?
Neds for Bernier? Younger but better? I say a wash.
Suter for Glendenning? Slightly more offence. Worse D. Worse faceoffs. Downgrade.
Helm for ? Smith? Downgrade.
So Leddy for Merril is our big leap forward? Meh...
Seider for Nemeth? I definitely think Seider will be great. After around 250 games. This year? Growing pains. Downgrade.

How are we better?

 

[Revenge of Gru]

Sure.

I don't mean they won't be good. They probably will be very good but neither is the type of physical, dirty areas type that Bert is. Bert is the perfect playoff player.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Where is all this improvement on the Wings?
Neds for Bernier? Younger but better? I say a wash.
Suter for Glendenning? Slightly more offence. Worse D. Worse faceoffs. Downgrade.
Helm for ? Smith? Downgrade.
So Leddy for Merril is our big leap forward? Meh...
Seider for Nemeth? I definitely think Seider will be great. After around 250 games. This year? Growing pains. Downgrade.

How are we better?

Calder candidate with an amazing save percentage comes in to replace a 32 year old who has problems staying healthy and that's a wash?
Suter not as good as Glendening? One guy was on a 40 point pace and played a strong 2 way game. Another guy spent the game locked in his D-zone despite an amazing faceoff win percentage. Guess which one we have now?
Leddy is only a "meh" upgrade over Merril?
Seider a downgrade on Nemeth? I'm not sure you watched either Seider OR Nemeth at all. Holy f*** dude.

Before that post I was only on the fence about your account being a troll account. Now I'm 99% certain. Whose burner is this?

 

[Revenge of Gru]

Calder candidate with an amazing save percentage comes in to replace a 32 year old who has problems staying healthy and that's a wash?
Suter not as good as Glendening? One guy was on a 40 point pace and played a strong 2 way game. Another guy spent the game locked in his D-zone despite an amazing faceoff win percentage. Guess which one we have now?
Leddy is only a "meh" upgrade over Merril?
Seider a downgrade on Nemeth? I'm not sure you watched either Seider OR Nemeth at all. Holy f*** dude.

Before that post I was only on the fence about your account being a troll account. Now I'm 99% certain. Whose burner is this?

I'm not trolling at all.
Bernier had a .914 s% on a dumpster fire team.
Neds had a .932 on a solid team with deep defence. He has a whopping 29 games of NHL experience. He's a solid prospect at this point and the trade was a great move imo. Does it translate into a lot more wins while returning to normal divisions? Of course not.
Chicago simply passed on Suter. I'm pretty sure its not because he's a Selke candidate. He put up 27 points and a -5 playing with Patrick Kane and Alex Debrincat.
Luke put up 15 points and a +3 playing with Darren Helm and Adam Erne. So no. I don't see this as a massive upgrade. Why would I?
Of course Leddy is better than Merril. That's why I said he probably leads to 3% worse lottery odds.
Of course I don't expect Seider to be better than Nemeth as a rookie. There's a massive jump from the SHL to the NHL. Certainly Seider projects to have a solid career but he's proven nothing in the NHL. Scotty Bowman says dmen need 250 NHL games to get it.
So given a much tougher schedule I don't see this massive improvement. I'm not sure I see marginal improvement.

 

[Revenge of Gru]

I'd add NJ to make it 9 teams. $21M Capspace left.

Their F's are worse & certainly not as deep.

Hamilton-Severson-Graves-Smith isn't terrible, but still has question marks.

G looks great.

I agree. They're certainly better than the team with the lowest payroll in the NHL.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

I'm not trolling at all.
Bernier had a .914 s% on a dumpster fire team.
Neds had a .932 on a solid team with deep defence. He has a whopping 29 games of NHL experience. He's a solid prospect at this point and the trade was a great move imo. Does it translate into a lot more wins while returning to normal divisions? Of course not.
Chicago simply passed on Suter. I'm pretty sure its not because he's a Selke candidate. He put up 27 points and a -5 playing with Patrick Kane and Alex Debrincat.
Luke put up 15 points and a +3 playing with Darren Helm and Adam Erne. So no. I don't see this as a massive upgrade. Why would I?
Of course Leddy is better than Merril. That's why I said he probably leads to 3% worse lottery odds.
Of course I don't expect Seider to be better than Nemeth as a rookie. There's a massive jump from the SHL to the NHL. Certainly Seider projects to have a solid career but he's proven nothing in the NHL. Scotty Bowman says dmen need 250 NHL games to get it.
So given a much tougher schedule I don't see this massive improvement. I'm not sure I see marginal improvement.

We can agree to disagree that Detroit didn't get better, and your comment about Detroit's lottery odds becoming 3% worse would be a good indication that we did indeed get better (It's the jump from 6th to 10th in the standings) but I don't think I can change your mind here. I'm not a fan of arguing in circles.

But you're still failing to address my previous point that there are several teams that got worse. At least 4 teams are outright tanking for Wright and we'd have to sign a roster of Sam Gagners to compete with them.