Rumor: Berggren recently rejected Red Wings offer, Calgary and Montreal expressing interest - David Pagnotta

[theYman]

This team has had Perron in a top 6 role most of the year. We'd survive the horrors of Burgers in the top 6.

Does Burgers hold onto the puck as good as Perron can? I mean that's one good aspect about Perron even if anyone doesn't like him. His offense has fallen off though. Burgers also has no experience. I like his potential but he hasn't proven to drive the play.

 

[Perfect Human]

Possibly an exposing question, but are waivers even a thing once the season ends? Like teams can be over the cap and send down and recall players with no implication of waivers.

 

[norrisnick]

Does Burgers hold onto the puck as good as Perron can? I mean that's one good aspect about Perron even if anyone doesn't like him. His offense has fallen off though. Burgers also has no experience. I like his potential but he hasn't proven to drive the play.

Perron hasn't held on to shit this season. Nor has he magically corralled every puck sent his way regardless of placement relative to his wheelhouse. He's slow receiving passes and slow making decisions once he has the puck, not to mention just slow moving around period. He's had a couple of shifts here and there, but by and large, the speed of the game has passed him by. We cannot afford both him and Kane in our top 6 moving forward.

 

[Henkka]

In reality, Perron has been one of the best forwards during this losing-heavy streak (last 10 game statistics).

It's totally others who have been pure crap during this stretch, and Berggren is defensively the worst of all.

9.48 GAA, that's pretty bad for Berggren.

Czarnik came in and he is still at Zero.

 

[Ezekial]

Perron is one of the best at taking penalties too. Love being shorthanded baby.

 

[jkutswings]

Athanasiou
Mantha
Vrana
Zadina
Berggren

Good to see we're still on track for another round of the same discussion.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

In reality, Perron has been one of the best forwards during this losing-heavy streak (last 10 game statistics).

View attachment 837726

It's totally others who have been pure crap during this stretch, and Berggren is defensively the worst of all.

View attachment 837725

9.48 GAA, that's pretty bad for Berggren.

Czarnik came in and he is still at Zero.

How much of that is actually on Berggren though? What’s the context here? Has he been making boneheaded giveaways that lead to goals? Or is he responsible for bad zone coverage? Or has goaltending just been bad?

 

[Ricelund]

Athanasiou
Mantha
Vrana
Zadina
Berggren

Good to see we're still on track for another round of the same discussion.

Don't forget Mursak, Nestrasil, Ferraro, and Svechnikov.

 

[Henkka]

How much of that is actually on Berggren though? What’s the context here? Has he been making boneheaded giveaways that lead to goals? Or is he responsible for bad zone coverage? Or has goaltending just been bad?

There was quite a lot of discussion after the Vegas game and game against Arizona.

Against Vegas, he played with Veleno and Raymond. Against Arizona, it was with Perron and Copp.

Too bad for him, he was a lot better on the stint earlier in the season.

 

[Lampedampe]

I can't quite remember but wasn't Janmark regarded as a one-dimensional undersized winger aswell?

 

[norrisnick]

How much of that is actually on Berggren though? What’s the context here? Has he been making boneheaded giveaways that lead to goals? Or is he responsible for bad zone coverage? Or has goaltending just been bad?

Cross-reference the GA/60 vs the xGA/60 for the answer there...

Not to mention any /60 when the player hasn't even played 60 is going to look goofy.

 

[norrisnick]

I can't quite remember but wasn't Janmark regarded as a one-dimensional undersized winger aswell?

Different dimension.

 

[ShanahanMan]

Two way NHL/AHL lifer.

 

[Hammettf2b]

Don't forget Mursak, Nestrasil, Ferraro, and Svechnikov.

Don't forget Jurco and Pulkkinen.

 

[jaster]

Berggren has got a ways to go. He’s a liability in too many critical facets of the game.

Perron, for all his warts, holds on to the puck. He protects the puck, withstands a forecheck, and has the patience to find a teammate. That goes a long way in initiating a transition game and not getting hemmed in your own zone. This has value and is a large part of why Perron continues to have as large of a role as he does.

Perron will age out soon, and Berggren has the potential to be an actual player, but neither of those things have happened yet.

EDIT: Sorry, I think I got hacked. What I meant to say is, Lalonde’s an idiot, fire him, load Perron into the trebuchet, and insert Jonny Burgers in the top six!

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

Different dimension.

Not really undersized either.

 

[Barry Amsterdam]

wings do a terrible job of developing forwards

 

[Ezekial]

Don't forget Jurco and Pulkkinen.

That Frk kid can rip it..

 

[jkutswings]

wings do a terrible job of developing forwards

The top two point producers this season are Raymond and Larkin. And for all their warts, I wouldn't say that poor development by the franchise is an issue for either Rasmussen or Veleno.

Or do you mean guys like Kasper and Danielson? Maybe Mazur? Buchelnikov?

I think it's more that 1) every team will have some guys that rise, some that just do ok, and some that flame out, and 2) Berggren in particular has a skill set that requires him to be borderline exceptional at what he does in order to be successful at the highest level, and either he just needs more time to reach that level or he might not ever quite reach it.

I'm not in a hurry. The kids will trickle in over the next 2-3 years, while other free agents and trades supplement the process.

EDIT: And for reference, here's who was taken #33 overall in the five previous drafts, to reference as a range of possible outcomes with their associated development after the draft:
- Kole Lind (1 year WHL, 4 years AHL)
- Rasmus Asplund (2 SHL, 2 AHL)
- Mitchell Stevens (2 OHL, 2.5 AHL)
- Ivan Barbashev (1 QMJHL, 1.5 AHL)
- Adam Erne (2 QMJHL, 3 AHL)

Berggren doesn't exactly look like an outlier being held back far longer than previous guys taken in that draft slot. He's about one year above the average at this point.

 

[odin1981]

Don't forget Jurco and Pulkkinen.

Jurco would have been fine if he didn't have multiple back injuries, that's what did him in.

 

[Lampedampe]

Not really undersized either.

Heh, yeah I thought he was 5'11.

But in terms of offense he carried a pretty bad AIK team offensively. So was he really regarded a defensive forward?

Either way, probably a poor comparison anyway.

 

[Roomba With a Bauer]

I've spent most of the season thinking Berggren doesn't have a future with the team, and he hasn't done anything to change my mind. Most of the same issues are still there.

Small, weak, easily pushed around. We already have too many small wingers. If Kane doesn't resign we might have room for him but I wouldn't be surprised to see him moved in the off-season, maybe as part of a package to move up in the draft.

 

[Cake Eater]

Cross-reference the GA/60 vs the xGA/60 for the answer there...

Not to mention any /60 when the player hasn't even played 60 is going to look goofy.

It’s amazing this has to be pointed out. Sample sizes matter.

 

[Electric Eric]

Jurco would have been fine if he didn't have multiple back injuries, that's what did him in.

Ya'll remember that interview with Kindl about all the mental abuse he took from Babcock? 1000% anticipate a carbon copy version coming from Jurco one day.

 

[Henkka]

Small, weak, easily pushed around. We already have too many small wingers. If Kane doesn't resign we might have room for him but I wouldn't be surprised to see him moved in the off-season, maybe as part of a package to move up in the draft.

It's funny how Yzerman operates. He'll sign a veteran in front of the kid, and there's some planned timetable, how this kid should push the vet out.