Rumor: Berggren about to be traded?

[Oddbob]

1) I don't believe in this sentiment. Putting out a playoff team that won't win isn't the game. Which happens every year in this sport. I believe once you have top 6 core and top 2 dmen that's when you should start focusing on "swings" or giving up assets at for a possible push.

2) if SY was replaced it would be because the owner no longer agreed with SY's long view. And we would switch to the non winning philosophy of signing overpaid players or trading good picks for aging players..

SY walked into Hedman and Stamkos and still took his time in Tampa.

Hollands prehistoric ass was using cap space on bum after bum paying guys like Frans Nielson because he "paid his dues". Old school shit like that stopped our rebuild when it should have started.

When you look at our top 6 and it's not performing at a top 10 rate on the power play do we look like a playoff team? Nope. He's not gonna get everything right all the time (Ben Chariot) ... But if our "young guys" can't beat out the sprongs, holls maatas of the world then they ain't ready. Lalonde wants to win games and we aren't getting anything from our goalies but I wouldn't pay to take an injury prone Gibson.

What years were Gibson injury prone? Since becoming a starter he has played a starters workload in every season. This is his 8th consecutive season playing a starters workload.

40 in year 3
52
60
58
51 out of 70
35 out of 56
56
53
21 of 31 thus far

 

[Indrid Cold]

Stevie has no pressure to make the playoffs. Any other GM in his 5th year would be fired if the team didn't make the playoffs.

All that talk about rebuilding through the draft, and the team's stacked with crap veterans.

Or does he? Maybe ownership IS pressuring him to make the playoffs.

 

[Snuggs]

Yes of course the ones that work out are omitted the entire point I’m trying to make is that it’s OK to sign some or a few of these kinds of players, just not fill 50% of the roster with them.

He's kind of rambling but I'll sum up his point for him to you. What did you actually expect this year? Roll with the waves and...

" Wait till next year. "

" Wait for two years. "

" Wait... "

 

[Ricelund]

Copp, Chiarot, Petry, Holl…how is Yzerman not doing the same thing?

None of these are in the same ballpark as the Nielsen/Abdelkader deals.

 

[PajamaBoy]

Yes of course the ones that work out are omitted the entire point I’m trying to make is that it’s OK to sign some or a few of these kinds of players, just not fill 50% of the roster with them.

Agreed with last part. Don't think copp is completely useless either. The young forwards should be looking at guys like him and holl and be thinking this is who I have to beat out?

 

[Detroit Knights]

Agreed with last part. Don't think copp is completely useless either. The young forwards should be looking at guys like him and holl and be thinking this is who I have to beat out?

This is my exact argument in another thread. How in the world can berggren not sit here and say, how the fu*k is fischer/kostin/perron/etc better than me? What exactly has yzerman and lalonde been bit*hing about my gameplay that would force them to trade me or start me?

No, let's just sit here and say woe is me because that'll get me a lot farther than I already am....

 

[better Red than Dead]

This is my exact argument in another thread. How in the world can berggren not sit here and say, how the fu*k is fischer/kostin/perron/etc better than me? What exactly has yzerman and lalonde been bit*hing about my gameplay that would force them to trade me or start me?

No, let's just sit here and say woe is me because that'll get me a lot farther than I already am....

They are better than he is, at what their role is. He’s not a bottom six player,

 

[DatsDeking]

This is my exact argument in another thread. How in the world can berggren not sit here and say, how the fu*k is fischer/kostin/perron/etc better than me? What exactly has yzerman and lalonde been bit*hing about my gameplay that would force them to trade me or start me?

No, let's just sit here and say woe is me because that'll get me a lot farther than I already am....

Agree with the post above mine’s response. Berggren is not, and cannot, take the place of a Fischer or Kostin. His competition is mainly Sprong/Perron/Fabbri. While I like Berggren’s game, I don’t think he’s shown he can take a roster spot from those three. And other less producing players like Ras and Copp play a more pivotal roll in the PK and defensive system that I don’t see Berggren filling either.

He’s good. Just doesn’t have a spot right now. I’ve come around and think Ed is a different story though. I think it’s time we give him a shot.

 

[Oddbob]

Man I hate when people say things of the effect, how is Berggren down, but Christian Fischer is on the team. Fischer plays defensively, PKs, stands up for teammates and is exactly what every team needs from a 4th liner. Berggren scores/assists sometimes and does nothing else, the kind of player that at least half the teams in the league have a version of.

 

[norrisnick]

They are better than he is, at what their role is. He’s not a bottom six player,

So... Berggren's flaw is he's too good at hockey to play in the bottom six where talent is a bad thing.

 

[lidstromiscool]

Man I hate when people say things of the effect, how is Berggren down, but Christian Fischer is on the team. Fischer plays defensively, PKs, stands up for teammates and is exactly what every team needs from a 4th liner. Berggren scores/assists sometimes and does nothing else, the kind of player that at least half the teams in the league have a version of.

I agree that Berggren and Fischer playing aren't mutually exclusive. Berggren is down because he can be sent through waivers, and because Yzerman signed a ton of redundant veterans. He is too good for the AHL, hence Berggren's trade request. Fischer's line gets dominated on the ice, he plays under 50 seconds on the PK a game (only 8 games with more than 60 seconds of PK time), 36% in the face-off dot, he is a really mediocre player.

 

[Henkka]

Fischer or Berggren are not a reason or solution to our bad goaltending.

 

[Oddbob]

I agree that Berggren and Fischer playing aren't mutually exclusive. Berggren is down because he can be sent through waivers, and because Yzerman signed a ton of redundant veterans. He is too good for the AHL, hence Berggren's trade request. Fischer's line gets dominated on the ice, he plays under 50 seconds on the PK a game (only 8 games with more than 60 seconds of PK time), 36% in the face-off dot, he is a really mediocre player.

Fischer's line doesn't get dominated at all. Only Berggren lovers hate Fischer or him being on the team. He is a good Detroit Red Wing.

 

[Oddbob]

I agree that Berggren and Fischer playing aren't mutually exclusive. Berggren is down because he can be sent through waivers, and because Yzerman signed a ton of redundant veterans. He is too good for the AHL, hence Berggren's trade request. Fischer's line gets dominated on the ice, he plays under 50 seconds on the PK a game (only 8 games with more than 60 seconds of PK time), 36% in the face-off dot, he is a really mediocre player.

If you could poll all 32 NHL coaches who they are taking with a 4th line spot available, Fischer or Berggren, it is probably 25+ coaches choosing in Fischer's favour. Why you mentioned his face off percentage makes no sense as he is a winger, and takes hardly any. Also if Berggren took faceoffs is he magically good at them? 50 seconds a game of PK time is 50 seconds more than Berggren would ever get.

 

[cvaicunas]

I like Berggren and I'm not opposed to trading him but I don't agree with the frustration of having him in the AHL. I don't know that there is anyone he really should be ahead of? Not Cat, or Ray. I liked the gamble of adding Kane. Fabbri has been really good. I think Sprong is a better 3rd line scorer. I still have time for Perron in the top 9/PP. Copp, Kostin, Fischer, Veleno, Ras play different roles. He's got more skill than Czarnik but Czarnik brings some positional depth down the middle.

Regardless, Yzerman has built the team to have Ed and Berggren in the AHL by design to maximize depth. Being able to bring in a guy of Berggren's caliber when a wave of injuries strikes is a bit of a luxury. Sure maybe you can dump a guy like Perron for a mid round pick to make room (Im not sold Berggren is the better player) but then who do you call up when there is an injury? a developing Kasper? Taro Hirose? The organization is better off with Perron, fabbri and sprong in the NHL and Berggren as the depth/insurance for injuries.

Its similar with the D. Is Edvinsson a better option than some of our guys? Maybe, but to have 6-7 guys plus Edvinsson waiting in the minors is a stronger total system than dumping, say, Maatta and then subsequently leaning on Rafferty/Johansson as your injury call ups.

Yea this is just it. Having those two, with the seasons they are having, is providing us insane depth. They both are roughly on a 50 per 82 PPG pace, on the 3rd of 4th lines!

 

[cvaicunas]

Yup getting rid of berggren for the sake of getting rid of him is beyond dumb. We cant get much for him cause they're isnt enough sample size. Agreed we cant have too many short players on the team but if we had one each line and surrounded them with a soderblom,Rasmussen type should be fine

I'd be in zero rush to move berggren for a few years. Let him play and pad up the stats. Moving him in a deal for another dman a d goalie serves no purpose. Were not making the playoffs. Tb and nj are about to pass us and with 50 games left good odds sabres will at some point

We dont need to add hanifin and give him an insane contract when we have edvinsson waiting and pelikka etc... markstrom? Pass... were not good enough I dont think yzerman will subtract at least till around the deadline but the smart thing is to move the ufa's who wont be back ,heck even if they're interested in returning (kane) and collect the picks

Gives us more shots at the draft and if anything gives us more assets to make a move and get someone of substance

This isn't our year. But as long as seider and raymond progress and edvinsson etc
... start getting nhl experience it wont be much longer

Big players who don't play big? Fabbri plays bigger than both of them combined

 

[norrisnick]

Fischer's line doesn't get dominated at all. Only Berggren lovers hate Fischer or him being on the team. He is a good Detroit Red Wing.

That wasn't good enough to stay a Coyote.

If you could poll all 32 NHL coaches who they are taking with a 4th line spot available, Fischer or Berggren, it is probably 25+ coaches choosing in Fischer's favour. Why you mentioned his face off percentage makes no sense as he is a winger, and takes hardly any. Also if Berggren took faceoffs is he magically good at them? 50 seconds a game of PK time is 50 seconds more than Berggren would ever get.

And 20 years ago they'd have preferred Reaves over Fischer. Not a sound argument.

The people that run NHL teams and benches are glacially slow in adapting to changing trends.

 

[lidstromiscool]

Fischer's line doesn't get dominated at all. Only Berggren lovers hate Fischer or him being on the team. He is a good Detroit Red Wing.

For his career of almost 400 games he has a 46% chances for percentage. 42.5% this season. So yeah his line is guaranteed to be a net negative, and he's been even worse this season.
For reference, despite not being good enough for the 4th line, Berggren has a career 50.1%

 

[Gniwder]

For his career of almost 400 games he has a 46% chances for percentage. 42.5% this season. So yeah his line is guaranteed to be a net negative, and he's been even worse this season.
For reference, despite not being good enough for the 4th line, Berggren has a career 50.1%

Fischer played center yesterday, between Fabbri and Sprong. Joey and Raz both played wing, and they look better playing wing than center.

So Berggren isn't replacing Fischer, he has to replace Fabbri, Sprong, Joey, Perron, or Raz. You could argue that he's better overall than 2 or 3 of them, but not enough to move the needle and he's significantly softer than all of them. Adds another ply to this 10 ply team.

 

[OneMoreTry]

If we could just ship some of our rather worse D & F for some upgrades.. add picks to make it work..

 

[Oddbob]

Fischer played center yesterday, between Fabbri and Sprong. Joey and Raz both played wing, and they look better playing wing than center.

So Berggren isn't replacing Fischer, he has to replace Fabbri, Sprong, Joey, Perron, or Raz. You could argue that he's better overall than 2 or 3 of them, but not enough to move the needle and he's significantly softer than all of them. Adds another ply to this 10 ply team.

All new 11 ply.

 

[Gniwder]

All new 11 ply.

Hey Fisher's got 4 days, lol.

For a min salary guy, he's done well so I wish him the best. That event was really unfortunate. Can't blame Petry for throwing a hip check because that was always my favorite move, no way Fischer could see that coming.

 

[The Zermanator]

If we could just ship some of our rather worse D & F for some upgrades.. add picks to make it work..

You've just summed up about 99.9% of all trade proposals ever made on the trade board.

 

[OneMoreTry]

You've just summed up about 99.9% of all trade proposals ever made on the trade board.

Admittedly - take it as a sign of desperation..

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

If we could just ship some of our rather worse D & F for some upgrades.. add picks to make it work..

Perhaps include a prospect or two or roster player to make it work like all other trades that have ever occurred in the hx of the sport....