Confirmed with Link: Bergevin to Speak with media today

[Doc McKenna]

After a month of low balling??....

What were exactly these low ball offers?......you don't know don't you.

I love when posters make **** up, it makes their arguments so much more compelling......

What we do know is the HABS had made the 6.5m$x5......Radu said know no and that's it, Bergevin, like Nill, went as high as they could, in the end, it's Radu's call and he chose Dallas, move on man!

No we don't, there was never any numbers given, and it's 6.25 or 500k more than he earned last season as our best playmaker and only physical forward. The only thing reported were the lowball terms of 3 and 4 year offers. The only time we heard any 5 year deal was after he signed in dallas.

 

[CauZuki]

No we don't, there was never any numbers given, and it's 6.25 or 500k more than he earned last season as our best playmaker and only physical forward. The only thing reported were the lowball terms of 3 and 4 year offers. The only time we heard any 5 year deal was after he signed in dallas.

Especially when many don't realize that all players start off with high demands/high salary it's how negotiations work. You can't bring that up as part of any argument it just doesn't matter , once you make a serious offer I'm sure he would have taken it , especially the further away we were from July 1st. He has no advantage to sign with us at the last minute , as he might as well see what the market has to offer at that point...

The reason many bring up Alzner/Shaw is that sometimes he is so quick to offer ridiculous money and term to get it done but with Radulov a player that actually made a solid impact in Montreal all of a sudden we have this standard where we care about market value.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Well the only thing better about the deal in Dallas is the fact that they have less taxes, which a rich person should be able to find ways around. Term and $$$ were the same.

You seem to act like MB offered him 20 Mill and Dallas 32 Mill. They both offered 32 Million American dollars. Its not MB's fault the Quebec and Canadian government like to stick their hand in the pot more than Texas/USA. If Radu really wanted to be a hab he could of singed that deal, been very very rich, and been a hab's legend.

Lets say MB offered 6.5-7 and so did Dallas, do you think Radu signs here or Dallas?

The only difference between Montreal and Dallas was not just taxes. Taxes was just one part of the equation as I mentioned in the post your replied to. Taxes, warmer weather, and most importantly... better players to play with. With the Habs, Radulov was the focal point of our offense. With Dallas, he is not. This should not be ignored.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Acknowledging the fans? Why are you insinuating intrigue for a simple, explicable gesture?

Well it supports my narrative more than it supports yours. I understand why you don't like it.

 

[Habs Halifax]

No you didn't and I am tired of your games. No need to reply.

You are too focused at a you vs me debate. I did answer your question and I'm not playing games. You are just getting upset that you can't convince me to think like you do.

 

[CauZuki]

The only difference between Montreal and Dallas was not just taxes. Taxes was just one part of the equation as I mentioned in the post your replied to. Taxes, warmer weather, and most importantly... better players to play with. With the Habs, Radulov was the focal point of our offense. With Dallas, he is not. This should not be ignored.

But we also can't ignore the existing dynamic with our team , huge Russian culture in Montreal , multiple Russian players (until our GM got rid of them) & taxes are slighly mitigated by earning US dollars and spending in CAD while taking advantage of our existing tax breaks for foreign workers in Canada.

How can we not suspect our GM of dealing in bad faith , when most of his moves are puzzling in nature?

 

[Habs Halifax]

The ten year plan.

Year after year plan. Where did you get the 10 year plan?

 

[Price is Wright]

The reason many bring up Alzner/Shaw is that sometimes he is so quick to offer ridiculous money and term to get it done but with Radulov a player that actually made a solid impact in Montreal all of a sudden we have this standard where we care about market value.

This is exactly my issue. The cap didn't matter when signing Shaw and Alzner. The cap matters when signing Radulov and Markov.

 

[groovejuice]

Well it supports my narrative more than it supports yours. I understand why you don't like it.

It's hilarious that you twist a salute to the crowd at the last game of the year as a sign of anything except respect for those in the seats. And then have the audacity to claim it is representative of something surely more dire.

Now had he flipped a bird....

 

[Bryson]

The only difference between Montreal and Dallas was not just taxes. Taxes was just one part of the equation as I mentioned in the post your replied to. Taxes, warmer weather, and most importantly... better players to play with. With the Habs, Radulov was the focal point of our offense. With Dallas, he is not. This should not be ignored.

Typical BS post. Taxes? This has been debunked a million times. Radulov is from Russia, he doesn't pay tases like a North American. Weather? Again the guy is from Russia and you're acting like he's become a warm blooded Cuban all of a sudden. Weather didn't stop Radu from signing here in Montreal in the first place and the nice weather in Nashville didn't do a damn thing to keep him from bolting back to Russia the first time.

Better players to play with? Gee I wonder who's job it is to acquire better players? If only we had a young dynamic center he could play with instead of having to carry boat anchor like Danault. If Radu was the focal point of our offense it only goes to prove how important he was to this team's success and the reason why the team got off to a 13-1-1 start last year instead of 1-1-13. Do you not think that our best forward could have been offered a few hundred thousand more to retain his services? I know the Habs are tight up to the Cap but if only we had some spare money lying around. Do you not want to win a Stanley Cup? It sure doesn't sound like it with your fervored pace to defend such mediocrity.

Another thing about the contract. Maybe it wasn't about money? Radulov got a full NMC which means for the next few years he knows where and who he will be playing with. Look at BargainBin's last few signings. Shaw? No NMC. Drouin? Nope. Galchenyuk? Nope. Only Alzner (LOL) got a modified-NMC. Guess our idiot GM wanted to make sure our overpaid 3rd pairing dman wasn't going anywhere. How to make an untradeable contract even more untradeable. Open your eyes!!

 

[scrubadam]

I never said that at all. But reality is, beggars can’t be choosers. We couldn’t afford to lose an offensive player like Radulov over a million considering how offensively strapped we are. And do i think he would’ve taken the offer, I do. But I’m not Radulov, so I can’t so for sure obviously. We would’ve had to pay more then Dallas, but that’s unfortunately the only option we had. If we didn’t have the cap space, that would’ve changed my opinion on it but since we wasted just about $5 million on Alzner, still let Markov walk, I don’t find this acceptable.

It can be unacceptable but still on Radu for walking. To me MB made a good offer that Radu should of accepted and in the end he was more about money.

And we have a ton of cap space NOW and its ironic to say but at the time we would of been tight around the cap if everything worked out. MB wanted to sign Radu and Markov and either AG or trade AG for a player making close to his same salary. Add in Prices raise the next year and cap gets really tight.

Sure don't sign Alzner. Well still need to sign another Dman to play in the top 4 that's going to cost 4 Mill or so at minimum, and especially if Markov is gone next year. That's 8 Mill of more cap with only losing Pleks 6 Mill. Get rid of Shaw you would say, again need to sign a guy to play in the top 9 that's at least 3 Mill there unless you want more Hemsky's?

So with hindsight we can say wow so much cap space, but on July 1st/2nd/3rd it wasn't looking that way if everything went MB's way. It didn't, it blew up in his face and that can be discussed on for sure.

Well rant over. In the end to me Radu could of signed here, been very rich, had a great contract and got the same salary he is getting in Dallas (regardless of taxes that's not MB's fault) but he chose instead to go search for a bigger deal and took Dallas's offer. Agree to disagree because no one is changing anyones mind.

 

[scrubadam]

After a month of low balling??....

What were exactly these low ball offers?......you don't know don't you.

I love when posters make **** up, it makes their arguments so much more compelling......

What we do know is the HABS had made the 6.5m$x5......Radu said know no and that's it, Bergevin, like Nill, went as high as they could, in the end, it's Radu's call and he chose Dallas, move on man!

WE all know it was the PC that did it in. Radu on his trip back from Italy on the plane had pen in hand, but then he heard the PC opend the cabin door and threw the pen and contract out the plane screaming MB's name!

The horrible offensive PC that drove Radu away, but not the same Russian Markov who was still willing to sign here at 1 year as opposed to his original demands of 2 years. And of course we have heard tons of reports and rumors on how it was all that damn PC that drove Radu away he was going to sign. He just didn't want to sign on July 1 he wanted to make other teams think they could sign him just for fun and a joke on the league but in reality he was going to sign here on July 3.

No doubt when you ask you SO to marry you and she tells you let me check if there are any other better looking or wealthier guys out there its a sure sign that they really love you and want to marry only you.

...

 

[scrubadam]

The only difference between Montreal and Dallas was not just taxes. Taxes was just one part of the equation as I mentioned in the post your replied to. Taxes, warmer weather, and most importantly... better players to play with. With the Habs, Radulov was the focal point of our offense. With Dallas, he is not. This should not be ignored.

So what changed from last year to this year when MB was able to convince Radu to sign here even with crap weather, and a crappier coach and crappier roster(DD anyone???). The biggest difference is that habs finished 8th in the league with Radu while Dallas was in the basement. At the time Radu signed I don't see how one could say Dallas was the better or more competitive team. Sure today Dallas is doing better but take away Radu from them and put him on our team and I bet its a lot closer (and also have Price not be the worst goalie in the league).

Anyways everything you are saying points to Radu chooseing to leave here like I said all along. MB made a very good offer to Radu, same money he got from Nill. Its not like Nill beat the habs offer by 10 Million and MB offered Radu 2 Million AAV. 32+ Million American Dollars on both contracts. I don't even know if 7 Mill would of swayed him. He still had the better weather, better players, less taxes in Dallas either way. And who know maybe Nill offers 6.5 or 7 so now MB has to offer 8 Mill because of the taxes.

I guess in the end we should of paid him 7 Mill +. I think the bigger loss anyways was Markov who with hindsight should of just given him 6 Mill for 1 year and been done with it.

 

[Doc McKenna]

To put in context, at that time Radulov wanted a 8 years deal.

this is bs, only fat Tony was reporting this. Why would he change from the reported 7x7 to something even crazier, and mb and radulov came out and said this was not the case. Keeping pushing that narrative

 

[CalgarySnow]

You seem to have missed that Radu himself said Habs only matched the Dallas offer AFTER he told Dallas yes and he felt he couldn’t renege on his word to Dallas

 

[admiralcadillac]

So many assumptions about what happened, leading to so many vicious attacks from people with agendas to groom.

 

[Doc McKenna]

So many assumptions about what happened, leading to so many vicious attacks from people with agendas to groom.

Then maybe you should quit your agenda and vicious attacks.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

Point is MB NEEDED to sign Radu to pull our offense one notch higher with the acquisition of Drouin. He didn't and no matter how you twist it, he didnt get the job done.

Switching Alzner for Markov was a gamble. He could've signed him one year and try to find his replacement next year. Carlson comes to mind for 2018. Would've been a far better option than Alzner.

 

[WeThreeKings]

I feel like I'm reading The Donald on Reddit when the Bergevin defenders come in and try to twist hard facts to support their God GM

 

[CauZuki]

I feel like I'm reading The Donald on Reddit when the Bergevin defenders come in and try to twist hard facts to support their God GM

Montreal has the best defense on earth , there is not one team that is better.

Montreal GM is very smart , smarter than I think almost everyone on this planet.

 

[Runner77]

Molson is the guy who let Bergie do whatever the **** he wanted.

If someone convinces Molson that he should name a President of Hockey Ops to whom Bergevin should be reporting, Molson would probably ask Bergevin to recommend one.

 

[scrubadam]

I feel like I'm reading The Donald on Reddit when the Bergevin defenders come in and try to twist hard facts to support their God GM

seems the other way when it comes to Radu. Even post upon post saying Radu took the better offer in Dallas and its still put on MB's feet when both offers were for the same dollar amount.

Dollar to Dollar the same was offered, Radu went to UFA and made his choice not to sign here and go to Dallas.

Blame MB for not signing Markov or getting another player with his 8 Mill in cap space. But leaving 32 Million on the table for another 32 Million is the choice Radu made.

Bottom line if Radu wanted to be a hab he would of signed the 32 Mill contract that was there on July 1 that the habs offered and he would be, once he stepped away from that he showed he didn't have a commitment to the team or city and was going to go to the highest bidder. That's his right, but that's his choice as well.

 

[Runner77]

Want to know my criteria for a GM when the team has playoff and cup aspirations in mind?

- Someone who can put together a solid team not wholly dependent on an all-star goalie
- Not hire one of the worst coaches available
- Not allow said coach to dick around our young players so Desharnais and Prust can get more ice time
- Actually acquire and keep the scorers we desperately need
- Address our equally desperate need for a center within five years
- Not enter the season with 8M in available cap space when at least Markov was willing to stay
- Not trade away our second best defenseman for an older, debatably better alternative on a far worse contract

Bergevin will soon be going into his sixth year with us yet we still have the same issues we did when he first arrived. Except now everyone is five years older with fatter contracts. His five year plan failed miserably. But sure, let's give him another five years. I'm certain he'll have figured it out by then.

How about just follow his own mantra about building through the draft?

Or trade for and sign players that matter in today's game and not the way it used to be played 20 years ago. What was Bergevin thinking with that TDL haul of Ott, King and Martinsen? Trading away his first pairing younger PMD for an older shutdown D, when every team is hoarding their PMDs?

What's with the intangibles in the room obsession -- how many character guys does a team really need? Where are the motherf***ers who aren't such nice guys but who wreak havoc and give their all every game?

Or committing to a defensive D with a lot of mileage like Alzner for 5 years?

This past summer was especially glaring -- all of Bergevin's minions being gifted extensions, raises and/or promotions. Where are the performance reviews? How could it be that all of them are deserving of staying on?

And no Plan B, with Bergevin left holding the bag on a large amount of cap space with nothing to spend it on. Doesn't matter, Bergevin flexed his muscles and sure showed them who's boss with public ultimatums and arcane dog analogies.

There is a lot of baggage that Bergevin has directly contributed to and apparently, no one inside the organization to call him on it. Country club lives on.

 

[Habs Halifax]

So what changed from last year to this year when MB was able to convince Radu to sign here even with crap weather, and a crappier coach and crappier roster(DD anyone???). The biggest difference is that habs finished 8th in the league with Radu while Dallas was in the basement. At the time Radu signed I don't see how one could say Dallas was the better or more competitive team. Sure today Dallas is doing better but take away Radu from them and put him on our team and I bet its a lot closer (and also have Price not be the worst goalie in the league).

Anyways everything you are saying points to Radu chooseing to leave here like I said all along. MB made a very good offer to Radu, same money he got from Nill. Its not like Nill beat the habs offer by 10 Million and MB offered Radu 2 Million AAV. 32+ Million American Dollars on both contracts. I don't even know if 7 Mill would of swayed him. He still had the better weather, better players, less taxes in Dallas either way. And who know maybe Nill offers 6.5 or 7 so now MB has to offer 8 Mill because of the taxes.

I guess in the end we should of paid him 7 Mill +. I think the bigger loss anyways was Markov who with hindsight should of just given him 6 Mill for 1 year and been done with it.

I suspect most teams were not willing to offer Radulov $5.75M with a $3M bonus paid up front and was any of the states will less tax and warmer weather interested at that point? Personally, I think Bergevin should of focused on a 3 year deal with Radulov right from the beginning. This is where I would criticize him. Pretty much everybody in the hockey world knew how good Radulov was and he was already proven at the NHL level. If he wanted to bolt to the KHL, his contract gets voided. What's the risks? You and I are pinned as Bergevin supporters but this is where I think Bergevin fails with players that want to play for the Habs.

- Subban after the ELC. We should of went for a 8 year max deal at that point. The next contract burned us. I'm not the 1st one to mention this and I think many people wanted a long term deal after the ELC. It was the smart move with a talent like this.
- Price after the ELC. We should of pushed for a multi year deal. If we are willing to give him a 6 year deal at that point, we can give him a 8 year deal or even more. I believe the new CBA was not signed yet either. Same thing as Subban. When you have talent like this, you lock them up for as long as you can and before they become elite.
- Galchenyuk. I did not like the 3 year contract. This kid is a proven 20-30 goal scorer at the very least. We should of went after a 5 year deal at something like Drouin's contract AAV or even less. I believe we have pinned ourselves in the corner with our former 3rd overall pick. We have mismanaged this situation and whole league knows it!
- Alzner. We pined ourselves in the corner by picking Benn over Beaulieu and not having a new contract for Markov yet. I don't mind acquiring Alzner but we paid more than we had to.
- Radulov. We should of signed him for 2 or 3 years from the very beginning. Everybody knows how talented he was at that point and I laughed real hard when some of the Habs fan base compared him to Semin. When a player like Radulov is interested in playing for Montreal, you take advantage of it. It don't happen often and after 12 months, the player left.

Contract negotiation and how to deal with the Media is something Bergevin is not very good at IMO. However, I really do think we lost Radulov once Dallas came into the picture and this has nothing to do with the Supporters vs Non- Supporters of Bergevin. I just looked at the varies involved and this is what I believe... Radulov left us

 

[scrubadam]

I suspect most teams were not willing to offer Radulov $5.75M with a $3M bonus paid up front and was any of the states will less tax and warmer weather interested at that point? Personally, I think Bergevin should of focused on a 3 year deal with Radulov right from the beginning. This is where I would criticize him. Pretty much everybody in the hockey world knew how good Radulov was and he was already proven at the NHL level. If he wanted to bolt to the KHL, his contract gets voided. What's the risks? You and I are pinned as Bergevin supporters but this is where I think Bergevin fails with players that want to play for the Habs.

- Subban after the ELC. We should of went for a 8 year max deal at that point. The next contract burned us. I'm not the 1st one to mention this and I think many people wanted a long term deal after the ELC. It was the smart move with a talent like this.
- Price after the ELC. We should of pushed for a multi year deal. If we are willing to give him a 6 year deal at that point, we can give him a 8 year deal or even more. I believe the new CBA was not signed yet either. Same thing as Subban. When you have talent like this, you lock them up for as long as you can and before they become elite.
- Galchenyuk. I did not like the 3 year contract. This kid is a proven 20-30 goal scorer at the very least. We should of went after a 5 year deal at something like Drouin's contract AAV or even less. I believe we have pinned ourselves in the corner with our former 3rd overall pick. We have mismanaged this situation and whole league knows it!
- Alzner. We pined ourselves in the corner by picking Benn over Beaulieu and not having a new contract for Markov yet. I don't mind acquiring Alzner but we paid more than we had to.
- Radulov. We should of signed him for 2 or 3 years. Everybody knows how talented he was at that point and I laughed real hard when some of the Habs fan base compared him to Semin.

Contract negotiation and how to deal with the Media is something Bergevin is not very good at IMO. However, I really do think we lost Radulov once Dallas came into the picture and this has nothing to do with the Supporters vs Non- Supporters of Bergevin. I just looked at the varies involved and this is what I believe... Radulov left us

good post and I can agree with a lot of it. A lot of hindsight but MB is paid the big bucks to make the right decision with hindsight.

Overall its been 25 years of spinning wheels and hindsight. From trading Roy to COL instead of some of the better deals that were rumored up till today its almost been a comedy of errors.

There was the curse of the bambino, maybe Roy uttered a little curse back on that night against Detroit and like the Red Sox the habs suffer the curse of the WINK. .