Bergevin crashes into Autumn (Part 7): Out of Time Edition

[Habs Halifax]

Don't call me sensitive. You don't know me.

Why did you put words in my mouth and why are you incapable of acknowledging that you did.

If I only brought it up as a possibility why did you change my argument to suit your needs?

Luongo and Zetterberg were broken down. I'm not sure as to Hossa. Regardless, every player makes decisions based on his own personal circumstances. Marleau has no bearing on Weber, but I would have bet anything that he would not play for peanuts. So I have to consider the possibility that Weber would follow suit. I am unwilling to continue to say with absolute certainty that he will not play any of those years. It would be foolhardy to dismiss the possibility.

Move on from it. I'm not learning anything from you other than you overreacting and arguing about dumb stuff.

You don't think Weber will be broken down at 36/37? Or am I putting these words in your mouth now?

 

[26Mats]

Marleau is in much better shape than Weber (at the same ages). Weber is a big heavy dude and if he is playing past the age of 37, it means he has committed to his body conditioning substantially more than he has in his career.

Marleau also didn't sign a cap circumventing contract. Context matters.

We could get lucky and maybe Weber won't want to burden us with his high cap hit when his skills have deteriorated - and he won't mind sticking it to Nashville and having them get stuck with his cap hit, since they chose to move on from him.

But some players love the game and life in the NHL too much. Look at Pleky, he said he still wishes he were playing Montreal right now. Allen Iverson said he didn't want to leave the nba and would play for peanuts, even when he sucked. Roy Jones keeps boxing even though he gets brutally knocked out almost every time.

 

[pepperMonkey]

I have always believed this but Marleau playing for peanuts has me slightly wondering if he might solider on for a year or two at one million.

If...and that's a big if, Weber can still play at a solid NHL calibre level (1st, 2nd, possibly 3rd pairing D) then sure, he may play those 1 mill years but if he can't, he's not going to stick around.

Marleau is still playing because he's still playing and contributing like a real NHL player. Besides, Marleau is playing still because he wanted to return home to retire as a Shark.

With the way things are going, if Weber is not playing injured and he is 100% healthy right now, I doubt he will even get to those 1 mill years because he'll either retire or be waived and sent to toil in the AHL. I don't ever recall past superstar players accepting and then toiling in the AHL for years...

 

[Habs Halifax]

We could get lucky and maybe Weber won't want to burden us with his high cap hit when his skills have deteriorated - and he won't mind sticking it to Nashville and having them get stuck with his cap hit, since they chose to move on from him.

But some players love the game and life in the NHL too much. Look at Pleky, he said he still wishes he were playing Montreal right now. Allen Iverson said he didn't want to leave the nba and would play for peanuts, even when he sucked. Roy Jones keeps boxing even though he gets brutally knocked out almost every time.

Weber is not a fitness freak. He is a big dude and gravity will work harder on him. I will be surprised he plays past his age 37 season. After his age 36 season, his salary drops to $3M for one year. Not even sure he plays that season but that's tricky cause it's 3 more years.

Anybody got stats on when players retire these days? Pretty sure it's 36-38 range right? What makes us think Weber is the exception to the rule and not the rule?

 

[Habs Halifax]

If...and that's a big if, Weber can still play at a solid NHL calibre level (1st, 2nd, possibly 3rd pairing D) then sure, he may play those 1 mill years but if he can't, he's not going to stick around.

Marleau is still playing because he's still playing and contributing like a real NHL player. Besides, Marleau is playing still because he wanted to return home to retire as a Shark.

With the way things are going, if Weber is not playing injured and he is 100% healthy right now, I doubt he will even get to those 1 mill years because he'll either retire or be waived and sent to toil in the AHL. I don't ever recall past superstar players accepting and then toiling in the AHL for years...

That's what I was trying to tell him but he said I was putting words in his mouth

 

[26Mats]

Weber is not a fitness freak. He is a big dude and gravity will work harder on him. I will be surprised he plays past his age 37 season.

Yeah reality may set in for him. He considers himself a fitness guy and talked at the end of the summer about how hard he trained because he wants to be a 25 minute guy again, as opposed to a 22 minute guy like last year. He's barely looking like a 20 minute guy so far this year.

 

[pepperMonkey]

We could get lucky and maybe Weber won't want to burden us with his high cap hit when his skills have deteriorated - and he won't mind sticking it to Nashville and having them get stuck with his cap hit, since they chose to move on from him.

But some players love the game and life in the NHL too much. Look at Pleky, he said he still wishes he were playing Montreal right now. Allen Iverson said he didn't want to leave the nba and would play for peanuts, even when he sucked. Roy Jones keeps boxing even though he gets brutally knocked out almost every time.

I'm sure a lot of players would love to continue playing in the NHL, the question is, how many of those past tops of the league players love it enough to play until they can't, in the AHL? Some may go to Europe or Russia but not many sticks around the AHL unless they have some hope they can return to the NHL.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Yeah reality may set in for him. He considers himself a fitness guy and talked at the end of the summer about how hard he trained because he wants to be a 25 minute guy again, as opposed to a 22 minute guy like last year. He's barely looking like a 20 minute guy so far this year.

He's not lean like Chara IMO. But hey, I'm not saying it's impossible. I'm just saying it's not probable

 

[26Mats]

I'm sure a lot of players would love to continue playing in the NHL, the question is, how many of those past tops of the league players love it enough to play until they can't, in the AHL? Some may go to Europe or Russia but not many sticks around the AHL unless they have some hope they can return to the NHL.

Very true.

 

[26Mats]

He's not lean like Chara IMO. But hey, I'm not saying it's impossible. I'm just saying it's not probable

And @pepperMonkey made a good point that if we sent him to the AHL he'd probably rsther retire than play there.

 

[Tighthead]

I'm sure a lot of players would love to continue playing in the NHL, the question is, how many of those past tops of the league players love it enough to play until they can't, in the AHL? Some may go to Europe or Russia but not many sticks around the AHL unless they have some hope they can return to the NHL.

Mike Keane wasn't a superstar player, and he certainly stood out by playing AHL as an old guy. Very much the exception, just didn't want to quit. 5 years with the Moose after 1100 NHL games. Insane.

Euro leagues are way less wear and tear - not sure about the KHL. Playing a year in Switzerland would have some appeal depending on family circumstances.

 

[pepperMonkey]

Yeah reality may set in for him. He considers himself a fitness guy and talked at the end of the summer about how hard he trained because he wants to be a 25 minute guy again, as opposed to a 22 minute guy like last year. He's barely looking like a 20 minute guy so far this year.

Assuming he's not injured, if he wants to stay relevant, he will need to cut his bulk to get lighter and faster and change the way he plays. Not sure if he's able to do that. Actually this goes to Subban as well. Well, cutting his bulk in any case.

 

[Milhouse40]

Weber is not a fitness freak. He is a big dude and gravity will work harder on him. I will be surprised he plays past his age 37 season. After his age 36 season, his salary drops to $3M for one year. Not even sure he plays that season but that's tricky cause it's 3 more years.

Anybody got stats on when players retire these days? Pretty sure it's 36-38 range right? What makes us think Weber is the exception to the rule and not the rule?

so if Weber won't play past 37....then at age 35-36 it means he will continue to slow down…..and our Owner is trying to convince the fans that the window is in 3-8 years where Weber will be done or close to.

That's why i will keep saying that we need to go all-in right the f*** now (well, i've been saying that since last year) cause we Don't have anything in our prospect pool that will be able to replace that lost, not mentioning that also Petry and Price will also have slowed down by then.

This organization is really going to nowhere fast and not one of them are realizing it.
Bergevin is so clueless cause just like when MArkov left, he won't be ready and have replacement.
Then trades will be hard, UFA Don't want to sign him and those guys are not available.

 

[sampollock]

While the Canadiens have highly improved their power play this year, their penalty kill has fallen apart.
The team currently sits 29th overall in the league when it comes to the penalty kill with just a 61.1% efficiency rate doing only better than the Winnipeg Jets and winless New Jersey Devils.
The team has also given up 23 goals tied for fourth most in the league.
Kelly points out that the Canadiens' have given up almost the most amount of scoring chances and the quality of scoring chances are too high.

 

[Tighthead]

If...and that's a big if, Weber can still play at a solid NHL calibre level (1st, 2nd, possibly 3rd pairing D) then sure, he may play those 1 mill years but if he can't, he's not going to stick around.

Marleau is still playing because he's still playing and contributing like a real NHL player. Besides, Marleau is playing still because he wanted to return home to retire as a Shark.

With the way things are going, if Weber is not playing injured and he is 100% healthy right now, I doubt he will even get to those 1 mill years because he'll either retire or be waived and sent to toil in the AHL. I don't ever recall past superstar players accepting and then toiling in the AHL for years...

I think it is unlikely. Possibly in Vancouver or Seattle, who knows. But I used to think it was an absolute no.

I don't think he would ever do all three years but maybe one depending on his play, his health, and his family.

I know an NHL player here in Ottawa who wanted to keep playing but there wasn't an NHL spot for him. He doesn't need the money, but retirement is scary for some people (not just pro athletes).

 

[Rapala]

Assuming he's not injured, if he wants to stay relevant, he will need to cut his bulk to get lighter and faster and change the way he plays. Not sure if he's able to do that. Actually this goes to Subban as well. Well, cutting his bulk in any case.

The first fundamental in today's game is skating. If players aren't willing or are unable to work on that aspect of their games the league will simply pass them by. No way we see the Howe Chelios and Jagr types going forward. Marleau may be an exception but he still skates reasonably well.

 

[BLONG7]

Last time the dinosaur Julien took a team to the playoffs that he coached from game 1 to game 82 was the 2013-14 season.....that is a totally different world.

The Bruins have excelled with Cassidy...with the same core. CJ is done like dinner. He is making a mess of this current group, calling out his future stars, brutal.

 

[habsfan891]

While the Canadiens have highly improved their power play this year, their penalty kill has fallen apart.
The team currently sits 29th overall in the league when it comes to the penalty kill with just a 61.1% efficiency rate doing only better than the Winnipeg Jets and winless New Jersey Devils.
The team has also given up 23 goals tied for fourth most in the league.
Kelly points out that the Canadiens' have given up almost the most amount of scoring chances and the quality of scoring chances are too high.

I'm kind of surprised it's at 61.1% tbh it seems like it's well under 50 watching the games.

 

[Habs Halifax]

so if Weber won't play past 37....then at age 35-36 it means he will continue to slow down…..and our Owner is trying to convince the fans that the window is in 3-8 years where Weber will be done or close to.

That's why i will keep saying that we need to go all-in right the **** now (well, i've been saying that since last year) cause we Don't have anything in our prospect pool that will be able to replace that lost, not mentioning that also Petry and Price will also have slowed down by then.

This organization is really going to nowhere fast and not one of them are realizing it.
Bergevin is so clueless cause just like when MArkov left, he won't be ready and have replacement.
Then trades will be hard, UFA Don't want to sign him and those guys are not available.

It's reasonable to assume there will be decline but rapid decline? Who knows. I think he has 3 or 4 decent seasons left and then it comes down to circumstance of how good he is and if he is playing on a contender in those $3M, $1M (x3) salary years from the ages of 36/37 - 40. If Weber plays till 40, that would be 21 seasons. I doubt that happens for a big heavy guy like Weber. Based on context of the overall situation, I think he retires after 17 or 18 seasons.

I do agree Weber's window does not fit the Habs youth movement of when they will make impacts.

 

[Habs Halifax]

The Bruins have excelled with Cassidy...with the same core. CJ is done like dinner. He is making a mess of this current group, calling out his future stars, brutal.

It's not Julien's future stars, it's Ducharme's

 

[Whitesnake]

Can any journalist go back to Bergevin and ask him what's his best trade again?

 

[Rapala]

None of this is dumb stuff.

How is a simple objection an overreaction?

I notice you ignored my hockey content.

Putting you on ignore again.

Them's fightin' words in the famous quotes of Bugs Bunny and Yosemite Sam.
"I dast you to step across that line"
"I'm a steppin'"

 

[Runner77]

Weber has 3 or 4 years left. If you think he is playing those $1M salary years from 38-40, you are delusional or don't understand the circumstance

The real value to the Habs will be if/when Weber retires before his contract term is up and holding up Nashville for ransom on the recapture.

 

[Habs Halifax]

The real value to the Habs will be if/when Weber retires before his contract term is up and holding up Nashville for ransom on the recapture.

If Weber stays with the Habs (Bergevin has 2 years left remember... hopefully lol) where he retires at 36 or 37, that Preds situation where they are on the hook for $24M of cap recapture penalties should be interesting

 

[Runner77]

Can any journalist go back to Bergevin and ask him what's his best trade again?

Depends. What's your tolerance for bunk?