Confirmed with Link: Bemstrom to PIT for Alex Nylander and a conditional 6th

[Viqsi]

This trade will likely rank in importance somewhere between the acquisitions of Colton Gillies and Jack Skille.

Anyone who remembers the Bemstom trade in 2 years ought to be declared the official CBJ historian.

Counterpoint: he starts scoring at a mild but repeatable pace for the Penguins and is promptly added to the list of Crimes Against Humanity by the Jackets.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

 

[CBJWerenski8]

This trade will likely rank in importance somewhere between the acquisitions of Colton Gillies and Jack Skille.

Anyone who remembers the Bemstom trade in 2 years ought to be declared the official CBJ historian.

Hey now Jack Skille was a pretty good player for us in that 2014 run. First liner with Joey and Jenner IIRC

 

[Cyclones Rock]

Hey now Jack Skille was a pretty good player for us in that 2014 run. First liner with Joey and Jenner IIRC

No doubt that Skille had some skill. OK, I'll accept my 30 day ban without complaint

IIRC Skille was the 7th player taken in his draft and Nylander was the 8th in his. Nylander is only 25, so there's that slight hope that he somehow starts living up to his draft billing.

 

[squashmaple]

Damn. If the 10-12th forward point getters drove the engine, the CBJ would have multiple Stanley Cups.

The players at the bottom of very good teams usually have strictly defined roles (PK/shutdown/etc). On the CBJ, Justin Danforth or Jack Roslovic get first line minutes on regular occasion. Somehow or another, I don't see Crosby/Malkin/Point/Stamkos/Kucherov being "out minuted" by their Danforth or Roslovic equivalents.

This simplistic metric is no indication of depth.

I think you're misunderstanding. Columbus has a lot of depth players but few stars. Having 10 or 12 players all between 20 and 50 points is actually pretty impressive. The team is in the toilet because their special teams are absolutely garbage and they have no one piling up points there. Those stars on other teams are getting a good portion of their point totals from special teams time. It's also a difference in team construction: those stars also play more 5v5 minutes than the inferior depth players on their teams. The Blue Jackets are basically a wall painted one single color; the Pens and Lightning are murals.

 

[Viqsi]

No doubt that Skille had some skill. OK, I'll accept my 30 day ban without complaint

IIRC Skille was the 7th player taken in his draft and Nylander was the 8th in his. Nylander is only 25, so there's that slight hope that he somehow starts living up to his draft billing.

I'm not holding my breath on that one, honestly. I think ANylander genuinely is what folks kept claiming of Bemstrom - a quad-A guy who has no feasible role in the NHL but is amazing one level down.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

I think you're misunderstanding. Columbus has a lot of depth players but few stars. Having 10 or 12 players all between 20 and 50 points is actually pretty impressive. The team is in the toilet because their special teams are absolutely garbage and they have no one piling up points there. Those stars on other teams are getting a good portion of their point totals from special teams time. It's also a difference in team construction: those stars also play more 5v5 minutes than the inferior depth players on their teams. The Blue Jackets are basically a wall painted one single color; the Pens and Lightning are murals.

I don't think I'm misunderstanding at all.

The idea that because the bottom (bottom 6) of a line up on one team has more points than the bottom of a line up on another team is an indication of better depth is a flawed analysis for the reasons I previously stated.

I'll reiterate that the bottom players on the CBJ will sometimes get top line (or top 6) 5v5 minutes. That rarely happens on the Pens or the Bolts save for injury situations. These extra points are a function of that-not of superior skill relative to the bottom 6ers on "good" teams.

If the bottom of the CBJ line up contains so much depth, I'd expect to see a ton of movement at the TDL by Stanley Cup contenders with the CBJ to shore up their alleged depth deficiencies by trading for superior CBJ depth players. But I don't foresee that happening. Do you? Texier/Kuraly/Danforth/Roslovic are not going to be sought after pieces I wouldn't think.

I'll add that the special teams poor performance isn't entirely on the coaching staff. There's a skill deficiency among our top players on special teams.

 

[Cheddarcheese]

getting a 3rd for Bemstom is insanely good!

 

[Viqsi]

I don't think I'm misunderstanding at all.

The idea that because the bottom (bottom 6) of a line up on one team has more points than the bottom of a line up on another team is an indication of better depth is a flawed analysis for the reasons I previously stated.

I'll reiterate that the bottom players on the CBJ will sometimes get top line (or top 6) 5v5 minutes. That rarely happens on the Pens or the Bolts save for injury situations. These extra points are a function of that-not of superior skill relative to the bottom 6ers on "good" teams.

It happens more often than you're assuming. And I suspect looking at points/60 would also indicate something similar.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

 

[majormajor]

Damn. If the 10-12th forward point getters drove the engine, the CBJ would have multiple Stanley Cups.

The players at the bottom of very good teams usually have strictly defined roles (PK/shutdown/etc). On the CBJ, Justin Danforth or Jack Roslovic get first line minutes on regular occasion. Somehow or another, I don't see Crosby/Malkin/Point/Stamkos/Kucherov being "out minuted" by their Danforth or Roslovic equivalents.

This simplistic metric is no indication of depth.

Except Emil Bemstrom has more points in fewer minutes than several forwards for both the Lightning and Pens.

There's a guy named Mitchell Chaffee on Brayden Point's wing right now. Matthew Phillips was just plucked off of waivers and is now on Malkin's wing. Both clubs have more obscure players higher in the lineup than the Jackets do! You couldn't have been more wrong.

The Jackets bottom six is much higher scoring than either the Pens or Lightning, it's really not close. You think it's about higher TOI? Control for ice time see what happens. The P/60 is higher.

 

[MissADD]

revenge for what?

i was being facetious with the revenge statement

 

[CharlotteJacket]

Anyone hoping for a couple of Bemstrom revenge hat tricks?

Maybe if we boo him like we did Carter, Panarin, and PLD, he'll have career games against us just like those guys did.

 

[thebus88]

0/1 for JD.

Moving the wrong players. Can’t see him wanting to continue with the organization though at this point.

Bemstrom is a better player and a better fit than a whole list of players on the CBJ now, and is SO much better than guys like TFW, or guys like Milano and the other names being dropped.

This trade will likely rank in importance somewhere between the acquisitions of Colton Gillies and Jack Skille.

Anyone who remembers the Bemstom trade in 2 years ought to be declared the official CBJ historian.

Something different here. While I don’t think his 2 way play is as good or he should be used as a C, but I see another William Karlsson situation in the making. People like myself and @Cowumbus ain’t gonna let the “nobody saw this coming” shit fly in 2 years after he becomes a regular 25ish goal scorer in the league.

Bemstrom was never given the opportunities people are claiming he was given. A few/handful of games here and there ain’t shit. The same reason guys like Bean/Boqvist can’t “excel” because of the build of our defense is the same reason Bemstrom can’t “excel” because then build of our wingers/forwards. Nearly ALL offensive minded. Bemstrom will fit very well with SMART players, something the CBJ really haven’t had in recent memory.

To be sure though, don’t think I won’t be on here giving people shit for essentially NEVER looking at Bemstrom positively at any time. He’s had to be “defended” for a very long time from the majority of CBJ fans.

 

[majormajor]

Something different here. While I don’t think his 2 way play is as good or he should be used as a C, but I see another William Karlsson situation in the making. People like myself and @Cowumbus ain’t gonna let the “nobody saw this coming” shit fly in 2 years after he becomes a regular 25ish goal scorer in the league.

It really wouldn't surprise me to see Bemstrom become a 25 goal guy relatively quickly for the Pens. He's also had a lot of confidence issues in the past so maybe not.

Bemstrom was never given the opportunities people are claiming he was given. A few/handful of games here and there ain’t shit. The same reason guys like Bean/Boqvist can’t “excel” because of the build of our defense is the same reason Bemstrom can’t “excel” because then build of our wingers/forwards. Nearly ALL offensive minded. Bemstrom will fit very well with SMART players, something the CBJ really haven’t had in recent memory.

To be sure though, don’t think I won’t be on here giving people shit for essentially NEVER looking at Bemstrom positively at any time. He’s had to be “defended” for a very long time from the majority of CBJ fans.

It's more in between for me, I could point to you several stretches where he played with high end offensive players. The thing is, he actually scored well in several of those instances. What often happened though is that he would play really well at first and then lose confidence and do nothing for a while. He was given a shorter leash than most of our guys.

Still overall, Bemstrom's results were not bad here. We already have a lot of posters acting like we got rid of a bad player but objectively he outperformed many of our players. He was always much better than Sillinger or Foudy.

 

[cbjthrowaway]

I see another William Karlsson situation in the making. People like myself and @Cowumbus ain’t gonna let the “nobody saw this coming” shit fly in 2 years after he becomes a regular 25ish goal scorer in the league.

bookmarking this comment for the day in the next ~18 months when he signs a contract in the SHL.

Bemstrom was never given the opportunities people are claiming he was given. A few/handful of games here and there ain’t shit.

TIL 204 games is a "few/handful"

 

[koteka]

This is why I come here. This is a good discussion about the value of Jackets forwards.

This is a common misconception about bad clubs. Teams that have been good often have had fewer prospects coming through and have a lot more cap tied up in superstars. They have worse depth than bad clubs like the Jackets! The Pens bottom six is much much worse than the Jackets bottom six! It's an easier lineup to crack.

The players at the bottom of very good teams usually have strictly defined roles (PK/shutdown/etc). On the CBJ, Justin Danforth or Jack Roslovic get first line minutes on regular occasion. Somehow or another, I don't see Crosby/Malkin/Point/Stamkos/Kucherov being "out minuted" by their Danforth or Roslovic equivalents.

This simplistic metric is no indication of depth.

Two good posters having an interesting argument about what the Jackets are.

I think you are both right to a degree. I think what you have both missed is that Jarmo’s number skill is finding forwards, especially JAG type forwards. I don’t think our bottom 6 forwards score more than good team bottom 6 forwards because that is a general principle. I think it is more that we have a bunch of ok guys who move up and down the line up in any given game. Tex is playing well, play him more this game. Danforth makes a bad pass, sit him in the third period.

Bemstrom should be fine. I have said for years he is a perfect cheap 3rd line forward on a good team, but I think on the Jackets he is a just a mediocre obstacle to young guys getting more playing time.

The weird thing about Bemstrom is he was sold to us as this stud scorer, and in reality he is a decent all around player who is definitely not what you would call a scorer.

Good luck, Bemstrom. It’s a shame that you didn’t get moved to a better team. Score lots of goals on us so we get a better draft pick, and one day I hope you can sign a cheap free agent contract for a good team and maybe get your name on the Cup.

 

[ThirdPeriodTurtle]

Something different here. While I don’t think his 2 way play is as good or he should be used as a C, but I see another William Karlsson situation in the making. People like myself and Cowumbus ain’t gonna let the “nobody saw this coming” shit fly in 2 years after he becomes a regular 25ish goal scorer in the league.

Please please bookmark this thread for your own use (like cbjthrowaway above). So much easier to have that discussion when there's links provided, especially if it's only 2 years and the links will still work.

 

[3074326]

Damn. If the 10-12th forward point getters drove the engine, the CBJ would have multiple Stanley Cups.

The players at the bottom of very good teams usually have strictly defined roles (PK/shutdown/etc). On the CBJ, Justin Danforth or Jack Roslovic get first line minutes on regular occasion. Somehow or another, I don't see Crosby/Malkin/Point/Stamkos/Kucherov being "out minuted" by their Danforth or Roslovic equivalents.

This simplistic metric is no indication of depth.

I do think it's correct in the Pens' case. The bottom six isn't good. Dubas has been trying to fix it since his arrival. The Jackets definitely have more talent in the bottom six.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

For the record, I am not one of the Bemstrom haters. So if we’re going to be calling out people in the future, leave me out of it.

 

[VT]

And maybe Nylander will show his talents here. Most of the problems are psychology.

 

[Harvey Birdman]

Rooting for bemmer to light it up for Pittsburgh then

Nylander is a nothing and the pick is a nothing unless it becomes a 3rd.

Wish Bemmer well and I think he’ll be a good addition to Pittsburgh.

Nylander shows sometimes something’s. Sometimes in the brief chances he got he would show some crafty move in zone or eyeing up a guy making a break out and he reminded me a bit of a Fedotenko mold type of player. A guy who if he figures it out could be the number 3 guy on a second line. Problem is if he isn’t getting top six minutes he doesn’t have the tool box to play down the line up. There is something there… It’s just DEEP in there and massive questions marks if it can be found. I hoped he had become a 2nd line option for us, hopefully he figures it out for you guys.

 

[majormajor]

I think you are both right to a degree. I think what you have both missed is that Jarmo’s number skill is finding forwards, especially JAG type forwards. I don’t think our bottom 6 forwards score more than good team bottom 6 forwards because that is a general principle. I think it is more that we have a bunch of ok guys who move up and down the line up in any given game. Tex is playing well, play him more this game. Danforth makes a bad pass, sit him in the third period.

Our minutes are more even but it's not just a matter of moving up in the lineup. Our bottom six guys are scoring more per minute, and scoring more per minute with each other in the bottom six. They'd be out scoring the Pens even if they played the same minutes.

Bemstrom should be fine. I have said for years he is a perfect cheap 3rd line forward on a good team, but I think on the Jackets he is a just a mediocre obstacle to young guys getting more playing time.

The weird thing about Bemstrom is he was sold to us as this stud scorer, and in reality he is a decent all around player who is definitely not what you would call a scorer.

Good luck, Bemstrom. It’s a shame that you didn’t get moved to a better team. Score lots of goals on us so we get a better draft pick, and one day I hope you can sign a cheap free agent contract for a good team and maybe get your name on the Cup.

I think this is a fair description of the player, it's exactly how I saw him in Columbus. But at the same time if you look at the Penguins situation, Crosby and Malkin need wingers. They already have one goal Matthew Phillips in their top six. They plan on moving Guentzel and maybe Smith. This is a great situation for Bemstrom to score goals.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

0/1 for JD.

Moving the wrong players. Can’t see him wanting to continue with the organization though at this point.

Bemstrom is a better player and a better fit than a whole list of players on the CBJ now, and is SO much better than guys like TFW, or guys like Milano and the other names being dropped.




Something different here. While I don’t think his 2 way play is as good or he should be used as a C, but I see another William Karlsson situation in the making. People like myself and @Cowumbus ain’t gonna let the “nobody saw this coming” shit fly in 2 years after he becomes a regular 25ish goal scorer in the league.

Bemstrom was never given the opportunities people are claiming he was given. A few/handful of games here and there ain’t shit. The same reason guys like Bean/Boqvist can’t “excel” because of the build of our defense is the same reason Bemstrom can’t “excel” because then build of our wingers/forwards. Nearly ALL offensive minded. Bemstrom will fit very well with SMART players, something the CBJ really haven’t had in recent memory.

To be sure though, don’t think I won’t be on here giving people shit for essentially NEVER looking at Bemstrom positively at any time. He’s had to be “defended” for a very long time from the majority of CBJ fans.

FWIW I am completely indifferent toward Bemstrom.

I will say that the notion that he was never given opportunities in a general sense would be very hard to defend. He played 204 games as a CBJ over 4 seasons including the shortened season. That's a lot of games and opportunity.

If he does become a 25ish goals scorer it would be a surprise to me based on his numbers over ample games played in Columbus. Stranger things have happened but I'd be a confident "under" bettor on future goals scored per season with 25 as the o/u #. I've got nothing against the guy and if he shows much greater numbers elsewhere then more power to him.

 

[MoeBartoli]

Hey now Jack Skille was a pretty good player for us in that 2014 run. First liner with Joey and Jenner IIRC

Jack Skille, a player where skill could be best found in his name.

As for Bemstrom, it was a good move to trade him. That said I think he has a chance to contribute in Pittsburgh and hope he does find some success.