Beginning of the End? (CBA & Lockout Discussion) - Part IX

[Crows*]

It's simply a joke that the nhlpa is whining they are the ones giving when their salary went up over a million from CBa to CBa.

Utter ,complete ****ing farse.

 

[rt]

I wonder if the players will outright accept a 50/50 split of HRR - with the teeny weeny tiny small little aside that HRR still needs to be defined. Seems like maybe the only way to grab back some public image. Just say "Yep. Deal looks great. We love it. Let's play hockey......just as soon as the NHLPA and the Owners can decide on a definition of HRR, of course". That definition is really the crux of the issue, isn't it? It's not about two versus three year ELCs, it's not about capping contracts at 5 years, and it's not about back diving contracts. All of that is just smoke screens. It's like gay marriage debate in the presidential election. All these guys care about is how they get to slice up that pie.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Yet, the NHLPA hasn't moved off their figure once and the NHL has moved numerous times on both the revenue split AND the revenue sharing aspects of the deal.

And the owners are being unreasonable? I have no sympathy for these clowns on the NHLPA side.

Both sides are in the same boat and want the other to take the hit, and the owners have much more ground to stand on than the players because they are the ones who have investing billions of dollars in their own capitol to make it so these players can make millions to play a game.

The NHL didn't make a serious offer until yesterday. Fehr waited them out, now we will see if the owners or players are greedy.

Or maybe common sense will prevail. Maybe.

 

[NinthSpoke06]

It's a huge paycut. Last time I checked, most people, no matter how much money they make don't wilfully throw money into the storm drain.

See: NHL owners losing money.

 

[haseoke39]

It's a huge paycut. Last time I checked, most people, no matter how much money they make don't wilfully throw money into the storm drain.

And yet you want the majority of NHL owners to continue doing what every year?

 

[Dubi Doo]

Yep, but ppl want to flip out on the players. We need all need to be patient and ignore the rhetoric.

We'll have a much better idea tomorrow.

 

[haseoke39]

I wonder if the players will outright accept a 50/50 split of HRR - with the teeny weeny tiny small little aside that HRR still needs to be defined. Seems like maybe the only way to grab back some public image. Just say "Yep. Deal looks great. We love it. Let's play hockey......just as soon as the NHLPA and the Owners can decide on a definition of HRR, of course". That definition is really the crux of the issue, isn't it? It's not about two versus three year ELCs, it's not about capping contracts at 5 years, and it's not about back diving contracts. All of that is just smoke screens. It's like gay marriage debate in the presidential election. All these guys care about is how they get to slice up that pie.

Dead wrong. Nothing changed in the HRR definition in the NHL's latest proposal.

 

[NinthSpoke06]

The NHL didn't make a serious offer until yesterday. Fehr waited them out, now we will see if the owners or players are greedy.

Or maybe common sense will prevail. Maybe.

I see that you are one of the PA shrills buying into the fact that the NHL owners, who by all PUBLIC reports/accounts are not making enough profits to run a sustainable business, asking the millionaire NHL players make $300K less is "draconian."

 

[Powdered Toast Man]

That would describe most negotiations....but once again we are back at the issue that the NHLPA has refused to negotiate on these economic issues.

If you write 1000 dollars on a piece of paper, and I verbally tell you that is significantly less money than I am looking for. We're negotiating. I don't need to write it down and I don't need to tell you exactly what I am looking for either. It's a tactic.

 

[Quokka]

I vote for (Don Fehr) The Reaper for the next thread name

 

[LickTheEnvelope]

These players are just ridiculously stupid.

Basically deciding that they are going to give up $2B (or $2.5M avg per player) in salaries in order to save $200M (or $300K avg per player). People in the financial industry are cringing at this terrible logic.

It is in everyone's best interest to get a deal done for the Nov. 2nd start date. If these players can't see this than Donald Fehr's has basically stole money in the form of his $8M salary from the players.

Lawyers are thinking "cha-ching!" months more billable hours!

 

[Ciao]

I hope the owners don't wait to long when the Nov. 2nd date goes by to cancel the whole season.

You might get your wish.

I hope both sides find a deal they can work with and have lasting labour peace.

I like my wish better than yours.

Why do you want a year-long lock-out anyway?

 

[PanthersHockey1]

God Im praying that tomorrow's counter proposal doesnt make the NHL PA look like bigger ****** bags than they already are. Im praying the counter is within the realm of realism.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I see that you are one of the PA shrills buying into the fact that the NHL owners, who by all PUBLIC reports/accounts are not making enough profits to run a sustainable business, asking the millionaire NHL players make $300K less is "draconian."

You have a lot to learn about how to negotiate fruitfully.

I guess you would of taken the league's second offer because Uncle Gary told you it wasn't going to get any better.

 

[haseoke39]

You might get your wish.

I hope both sides find a deal they can work with and have lasting labour peace.

I like my wish better than yours.

Why do you want a year-long lock-out anyway?

I, personally, am disgusted enough with these players that I don't see myself really enjoying their performances as much. I think I would take just about as much satisfaction from them being told to shove it, I'll watch the minors, and wait until Sochi to get my next look at them.

 

[Esq]

A supposed good character kid, is just a spoiled millionaire kid...the players would do well to just be quiet, they are coming off as an uneducated crowd...

Uh, this is pretty accurate even when they keep their mouths shut.

 

[Powdered Toast Man]

I, personally, am disgusted enough with these players that I don't see myself really enjoying their performances as much. I think I would take just about as much satisfaction from them being told to shove it, I'll watch the minors, and wait until Sochi to get my next look at them.

That will sure as hell show those owners. I mean, players. Crap.

 

[rdawg1234]

You might get your wish.

I hope both sides find a deal they can work with and have lasting labour peace.

I like my wish better than yours.

Why do you want a year-long lock-out anyway?

minus a few tweaks from the players. The current offer would make the league extremely stable, alot more RS from what I can tell, tight grip on what you can do with contracts(meaning no more screw over contracts like Weber with nashville from Philly).

The league is not stable right now, even most players admit that, if the majority of the league is stable, they will not be asking for a big cutback(even now, they only want a 10% cutback.). Unlike last time which had a major Salary rollback+ a huge system change.

if most of this stuff goes through( I guarentee the players like the shorter ELCs, cap trading and dont mind a gradual rollback. etc.) we will not be seeing another major strike/lockout unless truly one side is corrupted by greed. They both seem greedy already, but they are still doing this right now for the better of the league.

 

[Esq]

You have a lot to learn about how to negotiate fruitfully.

I guess you would of taken the league's second offer because Uncle Gary told you it wasn't going to get any better.

The point of negotiation is not to win; it is to agree. Particularly in CBA situations, where you will be sitting across the table from the same people in 5, 10, 15 years.

 

[Raylaw21]

Yet, the NHLPA hasn't moved off their figure once and the NHL has moved numerous times on both the revenue split AND the revenue sharing aspects of the deal.

And the owners are being unreasonable? I have no sympathy for these clowns on the NHLPA side.

Both sides are in the same boat and want the other to take the hit, and the owners have much more ground to stand on than the players because they are the ones who have investing billions of dollars in their own capitol to make it so these players can make millions to play a game.

Dude I laugh every time I see you post just because for someone that hates the players so much your username says different Make up your mind man!

As for the owners investing billions and are the ones losing money well you are sadly mistaking. Sure they are losing money on the actual team but they are making double that amount because they own the team in the first place. Take Florida for example sure we can all agree they are losing money on the team right? But because they also control the arena which most owners do they are making a killing right now that they would not have made if not for the NHL team. So don't go passing the hat just yet. I really don't think you need to be failing bad for the owners at all.

 

[NinthSpoke06]

You might get your wish.

I hope both sides find a deal they can work with and have lasting labour peace.

I like my wish better than yours.

Why do you want a year-long lock-out anyway?

Cause these players are idiots. They are idiots when they speak to the media. They are idiots when they post on twitter. They are idiots when they try to tell us "they just want to play." They lack any real knowledge of economics. They lead a coup and fired Paul Kelly for no reason other than he was willing to engage in talks when they weren't negotiating with the NHL brass in order to keep things friendly rather than keep things antagonist like they were and are now. They willingly put Donald Fehr in charge. They are willing to blindly follow him and refuse to make up their own individual minds on these proposals.

All in all, **** the players. They make millions of dollars to play a game. They don't take any financial risk and are set for life solely because they are good at a sport, that I and all of us love and most of us pay money to play. They are unwilling to take a paycut when in real life many of us normal humans have had to either take a paycut or have been layed off because our companies are losing money.

Most importantly, many of them can't seem to understand the difference between revenues and profits and that really pisses me off.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

I vote for (Don Fehr) The Reaper for the next thread name

I like it.

Solid first post.

 

[IDuck]

agree with others who have said tomorrow's proposal will determine the fate of this season...if they think the WC is a barganing chip then they have another thing coming if games get cancelled through nov. as talks will most likely break off and IIRC it has already been said that, with planning, the WC would be called off well before dec. du to logistic's

 

[Powdered Toast Man]

Cause these players are idiots. They are idiots when they speak to the media. They are idiots when they post on twitter. They are idiots when they try to tell us "they just want to play." They lack any real knowledge of economics. They lead a coup and fired Paul Kelly for no reason other than he was willing to engage in talks when they weren't negotiating with the NHL brass in order to keep things friendly rather than keep things antagonist like they were and are now. They willingly put Donald Fehr in charge. They are willing to blindly follow him and refuse to make up their own individual minds on these proposals.

All in all, **** the players. They make millions of dollars to play a game. They don't take any financial risk and are set for life solely because they are good at a sport, that I and all of us love and most of us pay money to play. They are unwilling to take a paycut when in real life many of us normal humans have had to either take a paycut or have been layed off because our companies are losing money.

Most importantly, many of them can't seem to understand the difference between revenues and profits and that really pisses me off.

You sound awfully angry for a scholar.

 

[NinthSpoke06]

Dude I laugh every time I see you post just because for someone that hates the players so much your username says different Make up your mind man!

As for the owners investing billions and are the ones losing money well you are sadly mistaking. Sure they are losing money on the actual team but they are making double that amount because they own the team in the first place. Take Florida for example sure we can all agree they are losing money on the team right? But because they also control the arena which most owners do they are making a killing right now that they would not have made if not for the NHL team. So don't go passing the hat just yet. I really don't think you need to be failing bad for the owners at all.

What does my username have to do with anything? I am a hockey fan. But I am also a business professional. I am not an expert but I like to think I know a thing or two about how business works.

I am anti-player when it comes to the business aspect of the sport. The hockey aspect is a whole separate entity.