Beginning of the End? (CBA & Lockout Discussion) - Part IX

[Holden Caulfield]

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[Mantha Poodoo]

Or end of the beginning?

 

[Crows*]

Interesting comments from Andy McDonald.

Pre mature comments from montador.

@jprutherford: #stlblues forward Andy McDonald @10_Amac on report that #NHL is attempting to change definition of hockey-related revenue .... (1/3)

@jprutherford: McDonald: "What we've been told is they want to 'clarify' it, but they haven't given any detail about what that means. You've got to (2/3)

@jprutherford: McDonald: "suspect that means they want to reduce it somehow or redefine it somehow. We have to be given a more detailed explanation" (3/3)

 

[Marc the Habs Fan]

Pierre LeBrun ‏@Real_ESPNLeBrun
More on NHL offer: calls for 2012-13 salary cap of $59.9 million but teams can go over up to $70.2 million in Year 1 as part of transition

So this would mean NHL is forecasting around 3.1 B in revenue if they use the same cap calculating system.

 

[Crows*]

Lots more info

@Real_ESPNLeBrun: More on NHL offer: calls for 2012-13 salary cap of $59.9 million but teams can go over up to $70.2 million in Year 1 as part of transition

@DarrenDreger: More on NHL Rev Sharing. Pool will be determined yearly by a Revenue Sharing Committee. The NHLPA will have representation and input.

@TheFourthPeriod: Being told there's plenty of good traction tonight over CBA. Still a lot of work to be done, but this could move relatively quickly

**** yes!!

 

[CBJWerenski8]

“I think we’re a lot closer, that’s for sure,†said Blue Jackets defenseman Adrian Aucoin, a member of the NHLPA negotiating committee. “There are some things in (the proposal) we’re glad to see. There are some things we’re not too happy about in there.

“But we’re definitely a lot closer now.â€

http://bluejacketsxtra.dispatch.com/content/blogs/puck-rakers/index.html

 

[Ari91]

Interesting comments from Andy McDonald.

Pre mature comments from montador.

@jprutherford: #stlblues forward Andy McDonald @10_Amac on report that #NHL is attempting to change definition of hockey-related revenue .... (1/3)

@jprutherford: McDonald: "What we've been told is they want to 'clarify' it, but they haven't given any detail about what that means. You've got to (2/3)

@jprutherford: McDonald: "suspect that means they want to reduce it somehow or redefine it somehow. We have to be given a more detailed explanation" (3/3)

Someone should take Montador's rep badge away, lol. You don't confirm details to the media when those details require further clarification in order to understand them. Come on now Montador.

 

[Harry22]

No way this doesn't get done before the 25th. They will have marathon sessions like Bob McKenzie said and get the deal done by the deadline. Ratification on 26th, training camps on 27th.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

Lots more info

@Real_ESPNLeBrun: More on NHL offer: calls for 2012-13 salary cap of $59.9 million but teams can go over up to $70.2 million in Year 1 as part of transition

@DarrenDreger: More on NHL Rev Sharing. Pool will be determined yearly by a Revenue Sharing Committee. The NHLPA will have representation and input.

@TheFourthPeriod: Being told there's plenty of good traction tonight over CBA. Still a lot of work to be done, but this could move relatively quickly

**** yes!!

**** yes indeed

 

[TheKingPin]

Exactly the big move that needed to happen. Definitely going to get things moving fast now. Thinking November is a real possibility!

 

[Wheathead]

http://bluejacketsxtra.dispatch.com/content/blogs/puck-rakers/index.html

That's called negotiating. You don't get everything you want and you should settle for some things you don't like.

 

[mossey3535]

Someone should take Montador's rep badge away. ?You don't confirm details to the media when those details require further clarification in order to understand them. Come on now Montador.

So I was right, he got confused by the idea of 'codifying' it. Makes sense, you don't say oh we need a deal in 9 days, and then pick a fight by redefining the HRR.

 

[Horvat2Deadweight]

I swear to god if this doesn't work out now I'm going to be pissed, I don't want to get excited for nothing.

 

[Ciao]

It must be embarassing for the NHL to admit that it's been posturing and bullying with it's low-ball offers, and that it would eventually have "split the difference" with the union even in the absence of a counter-offer from the NHLPA.

That said, I'm hopeful that the NHL is now in the right head-space and that meaningful CBA negotiations can now begin.

Take this offer as the NHL's real starting point, and its earlier offers as a couple of bluffs or spoofs.

No wonder the NHLPA, or anyone else for that matter, has such trouble taking the NHL seriously.

 

[Marc the Habs Fan]

No way this doesn't get done before the 25th. They will have marathon sessions like Bob McKenzie said and get the deal done by the deadline. Ratification on 26th, training camps on 27th.

I still say we need to wait and see what the NHLPA proposes before making any proclamation.

 

[shortshorts]

Next NHLPA offer: 56% 44%...

Still not optimistic.

 

[Dubi Doo]

It must be embarassing for the NHL to admit that it's been posturing and bullying with it's low-ball offers, and that it would eventually have "split the difference" with the union even in the absence of a counter-offer from the NHLPA.

That said, I'm hopeful that the NHL is now in the right head-space and that meaningful CBA negotiations can now begin.

Take this offer as the NHL's real starting point, and its earlier offers as a couple of bluffs or spoofs.

No wonder the NHLPA, or anyone else for that matter, has such trouble taking the NHL seriously.

I agree. This could've been resolved much sooner, but as of right now I'll take waht I can get.

 

[Crows*]

@TSNBobMcKenzie: On trading of cap space/retaining salary, it would be limited to $3M for each contract year left or 50 per cent of AAV, whichever is less

@TSNBobMcKenzie: Each club, in any given year, tho, would be subject to a 2 contract and/or $5M limit in terms of retaining salary.

 

[rdawg1234]

It must be embarassing for the NHL to admit that it's been posturing and bullying with it's low-ball offers, and that it would eventually have "split the difference" with the union even in the absence of a counter-offer from the NHLPA.

That said, I'm hopeful that the NHL is now in the right head-space and that meaningful CBA negotiations can now begin.

Take this offer as the NHL's real starting point, and its earlier offers as a couple of bluffs or spoofs.

No wonder the NHLPA, or anyone else for that matter, has such trouble taking the NHL seriously.

I dont know how anyone can write this and not say the same for the PA. By all accounts the PA has been sitting on a few proposals for weeks, why not come out and offer a similar(but more favorable for them by a percent or two) offer?

I think it's silly to say NHL's done nothing when the PA hasnt even dropped a percent or changed anything from their original proposal minus adding years.

 

[Marc the Habs Fan]

@TSNBobMcKenzie: On trading of cap space/retaining salary, it would be limited to $3M for each contract year left or 50 per cent of AAV, whichever is less

@TSNBobMcKenzie: Each club, in any given year, tho, would be subject to a 2 contract and/or $5M limit in terms of retaining salary.

I can't see the PA being against this, so it's a near certainty this will be a part of the next CBA. And I love it.

 

[Ari91]

I have no clue what those trading cap/retaining salary tweets mean.

 

[KopitarFAN]

I'm having a hard time trying to maintain a pessimistic outlook.

 

[rdawg1234]

I have no clue what those trading cap/retaining salary tweets mean.

same, I dont really understand what it's saying, what does contracts have to do with extra cap space?

 

[mossey3535]

Of course... and 7 years ago when they were doing it to a much greater degree, teams were freely spending upwards of 60%.

That whole "method of financial restraint" is flawed at it's core, in the context of fairness. Fair would dictate that a player has 100% freedom of movement, and his services are available to the single team that values him greater than anyone else.

The NHL is, a cartel, legalized by the fact that the players are willing to negotiate as a collective with the collective. That doesn't make it "fair", that's just what they thought was in their best interest.

You get fans on here calling this proposal "fair"... why? Based on the previous CBA, the players give up 12% of their share, have a bunch of restrictions put on, and get absolutely nothing new in exchange. Based on the true definition of fairness (open market), the players are probably sacrificing upwards of 25% of their earning potential (based on 65% in a non-capped system), and agreeing to have teams that they may or may not have any desire to be associated with control their rights for the first 8 years of their career.

Technically it IS a free market. There are plenty of other pro hockey leagues out there, even in North America. Players have already chosen to play for other teams.

In a free market system, owners would also have 100% freedom so they would be free to cut labour costs as they wished. They could arbitrarily set the player cost extremely low.

In any case there is no such thing as a truly free market system anywhere in the world anyway. So I don't know why you are pining for it so much.

Really what we should be doing is carefully defining what we deem to be fair. A 'fair' agreement should cater to the self-interest of both sides without unduly favouring one or the other.

 

[Marc the Habs Fan]

I have no clue what those trading cap/retaining salary tweets mean.

Let's say you have a player who makes 6 M on the cap you want to get rid of at all costs.

With this, you can ''retain'' 3 M of the 6 M on your cap to help close the deal.

So you'd have 3 M of dead cap space. But the player would be gone. The other team takes on only 3 M.

Bob McKenzie ‏@TSNBobMcKenzie
Because NHL players buried in minors (Redden etc) would count against cap, re-entry waivers would no longer exist.

Very glad that re-entry waivers would be gone.