OT: Bears & NFL Talk 94

[piteus]

Let's give h

We all wanted him to succeed, just wasn't in the cards. It's not like the Bears ruined a Peyton Manning level QB prospect though. the full year.

Let's give him the full year. Maybe the light turns on. He shows some flashes. However, there are red flags for a 3rd year.

 

[hawksrule]

I expect Fields will be better. Not making excuses for these first two weeks, but not writing him off by any means.

 

[piteus]

I

I expect Fields will be better. Not making excuses for these first two weeks, but not writing him off by any means.

I'll say one thing about Fields and the Bears coaches. Notice how they are forcing Fields to play from the pocket. There is no running. IMO, the Bears can score a lot more points if they played last year's offense. However, that's not sustainable for Justin or the Bears. This staff is trying to figure out if Justin can play from the pocket. Note: it is better than last year from the pocket. It's smart.

Let's see if Justin gets better from the pocket. IF Justin does, with his running, we got a scary offensive on our hands. It's up to Justin to improve.

Even if Justin improves significantly, don't expect a lot of wins. Our defense sucks.

 

[Callidusblackhawk]

I expect Fields will be better. Not making excuses for these first two weeks, but not writing him off by any means.

The most important thing for the Bears this season is figuring out if Fields can be a good QB or not in the NFL. So far its not looking good at all, but there is still plenty of time for that to change, and its important they take the time to figure it out one way or the other.

 

[Clownish]

Anthony Richardson suffered concussion

Last week he injured himself diving for yards.

Its hard to envision him succeeding in NFL the way he plays. Josh Allen also need to cut out the lowering shoulder and taking big hits before he gets injured

RG III syndrome. These guys think they're indestructible.

They are very much destructible.

Did either of you watch the actual play where he was hurt? His head snapped back after falling from being pushed after scoring on a long touchdown run. It was a play that could happen to any quarterback or receiver who has scored a touchdown. He's never going to be a traditional drop back passer who attempts 50+ passes per game.

HIGHLIGHT | Anthony Richardson rushes for a 15-yard touchdown vs. Houston Texans

Anthony Richardson rushes for a 15-yard touchdown vs. Houston Texans, 09/17/2023

www.colts.com

It's a basic football play where his head unfortunately snapped back and hit the turf. It's nowhere near the type of reckless play that got RGIII or Luck injured/shortened their careers.

 

[MarotteMarauder]

It's weird. Fields was not this timid/gun shy when Nagy was his coach his rookie year. I do wonder if it's overcoaching. Getsy has not impressed me at all with his calls since he's been here.

One isn't gun shy when they can identify very open receivers.

 

[Sarava]

I don't get the impression that he's gun shy. I think he's not seeing these open receivers. You can see on a lot of these plays he doesn't even look in the direction/area of some of these open receivers/backs.

At this point you have to roll with him and hope he gets it at some point. If we're still here halfway through the season, then you start thinking about seeing what Tyson can do I guess.

But I agree with illini. This isn't just not improving. He has clearly regressed from last year - at least in these first 2 games.

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

Did either of you watch the actual play where he was hurt? His head snapped back after falling from being pushed after scoring on a long touchdown run. It was a play that could happen to any quarterback or receiver who has scored a touchdown. He's never going to be a traditional drop back passer who attempts 50+ passes per game.

HIGHLIGHT | Anthony Richardson rushes for a 15-yard touchdown vs. Houston Texans

Anthony Richardson rushes for a 15-yard touchdown vs. Houston Texans, 09/17/2023

www.colts.com

It's a basic football play where his head unfortunately snapped back and hit the turf. It's nowhere near the type of reckless play that got RGIII or Luck injured/shortened their careers.

I was more talking his play from last week that injured him when he dived into a major hit

Two games into his NFL career and he didn't finish either because of injuries. Yeah this injury was a more freak event but injuries pile up and his style of play (Going down with shoulder taking big hits, etc) is not something a franchise likes to see on guy who is hoped to be franchise QB

 

[Mrfenn92]

Looking forward to watching the game tomorrow.

 

[piteus]

I don't get the impression that he's gun shy. I think he's not seeing these open receivers. You can see on a lot of these plays he doesn't even look in the direction/area of some of these open receivers/backs.

At this point you have to roll with him and hope he gets it at some point. If we're still here halfway through the season, then you start thinking about seeing what Tyson can do I guess.

But I agree with illini. This isn't just not improving. He has clearly regressed from last year - at least in these first 2 games.

Fields hasn't regressed. He hasn't developed like a 3rd year QB should. His pocket presence is lacking. Perhaps he's not seeing the field ... but I get the feeling he's more hesitant to pull the trigger. Justin doesn't understand NFL open is far different than college open. NFL QBs have to throw with anticipation. Justin does not do that. That's a huge issue.

Justin's not running last year's offense. He's forcing himself to throw from the pocket. The growing pains are obvious. Furthermore, against the Packers, Justin made it a point to get the ball out quick. It was pretty much all check downs and screens. Against the BUCS, Justin said he must throw it deeper and throw it into tighter windows. For that reason, he held the ball too long because he kept waiting for his receivers to get open instead of throwing them open.

The red flags are there. However, Justin knows what he needs to do to fix the issue. Throw with anticipation ... into tighter windows. Let's see if he improves. It won't be easy. He'll be heavily criticized during his struggles to improve.

 

[HeisenBaez]

I'm staying on my time table of W6 before I make my judgment but right now, it's not promising.

 

[Panzerspitze]

Halas Intrigue podcast: Bears sinking fast

So, to cover for Poles' mistakes (Claypool, Velus Jones, Nate Davis/Lucas Patrick replacing replace James Daniels), they had 7 WRs and only 4 safeties dressed, with Ja'Tyre Carter in at guard.

 

[Pez68]

Can't really make any definite conclusions for another month or so. It's soooo early, with a brand new offense. If Fields still looks like this in November, c'est la vie.

 

[TLEH]

I thought Claypool played a good game tbh. The block he "missed" in the Red zone wasn't about no effort, he slipped on 84. On the Roschon toss play he made some great blocks. Scored a TD. I thought he responded.

I think Kmet sucks and I always have. Didn't understand that extension.

 

[Panzerspitze]

Interesting. In the comments section of the above video, multiple viewers point out that the Bears staff has apparently changed Fields' passing stance from having his left foot back to now his right foot back. Assuming they do move on from Fields, would this staff do the same to the next poor sap, Caleb Williams or whoever, who gets drafted by this club to play QB?

 

[No Fun Shogun]

Look, that's the big issue. QB evaluation is one thing, but QB development is an even bigger matter. I don't trust the Bears with either. If we draft a QB, be that Williams next year or Arch Manning in a few years or whomever you can think of, I have little to no doubt that the Bears staff would find a way to ruin them.

 

[belfour30]

 

[piteus]

Look, that's the big issue. QB evaluation is one thing, but QB development is an even bigger matter. I don't trust the Bears with either. If we draft a QB, be that Williams next year or Arch Manning in a few years or whomever you can think of, I have little to no doubt that the Bears staff would find a way to ruin them.

I actually think Poles has done a decent job giving Fields a decent opportunity to prove himself. I guess you can criticize Poles for hiring a defensive minded first year HC ... and a 1st year OC.

IMO, this is a Fields issue. What was his biggest criticism (not health related) coming out of college? He held onto the ball way too long. For whatever reason, Fields still holds onto the ball too long after 3 years in the NFL. That's through 2 coaching staffs.

Justin Fields has 10 sacks this season. 9 of them are after 4 seconds or more. The average QB takes 2.5 seconds to throw the ball. In his career, Justin Fields has 79 sacks that's taken 4 seconds or more. Granted some of it is due to Fields' ability to scramble. Still that's 16 more than any other NFL QB in the same time frame.

If Fields wants to flip the script this year, this is the red flag he must address.

Stop with the Trubisky stuff. I have my issues with Fields, but Trubisky was bad. Fields is the better QB ... but that's not saying much.

 

[Giovi]

I actually think Poles has done a decent job giving Fields a decent opportunity to prove himself. I guess you can criticize Poles for hiring a defensive minded first year HC ... and a 1st year OC.

IMO, this is a Fields issue. What was his biggest criticism (not health related) coming out of college? He held onto the ball way too long. For whatever reason, Fields still holds onto the ball too long after 3 years in the NFL. That's through 2 coaching staffs.

Justin Fields has 10 sacks this season. 9 of them are after 4 seconds or more. The average QB takes 2.5 seconds to throw the ball. In his career, Justin Fields has 79 sacks that's taken 4 seconds or more. Granted some of it is due to Fields' ability to scramble. Still that's 16 more than any other NFL QB in the same time frame.

If Fields wants to flip the script this year, this is the red flag he must address.


Stop with the Trubisky stuff. I have my issues with Fields, but Trubisky was bad. Fields is the better QB ... but that's not saying much.

Not disagreeing with your entire post at all, but Eberflus was hired two days after Poles, a pretty strong indication that Eberflus was chosen by the organization, not by Poles. Or at the very least, Poles was given a list of candidates from which he could choose.

 

[No Fun Shogun]

Plus, Poles isn't the guy developing Fields. I'm saying that there's an institutional rot at handling QB from identifying talent at the top to developing at the coaching level.

Fundamentally speaking, I just don't think the Bears know how to handle the QB position in the modern game. After all, we're the literal only franchise without a single 4000-yard passing season in the entire NFL. We're not talking some pie-in-the-sky elite goal, we're talking about something that 31 teams have done at least once and the Bears being the odd man out. We're the last kids in class to not be potty trained and we're in high school. That goes deeper than just management being clueless.

 

[Toews2Bickell]

a question that needs to be asked is why did Mike McDaniel fly so under the radar in that coaching search...he was like the last coach off the board after SF lost in NFC title game iirc, why did the Bears not wait to interview him knowing they needed an offensive minded coach to develop Fields and McDaniel was coming from a very strong coaching tree...they hired Eberflus like he was some hot commodity after his defense was torched by a last place Jags team that knocked Indy out of the playoffs

 

[TLEH]

a question that needs to be asked is why did Mike McDaniel fly so under the radar in that coaching search...he was like the last coach off the board after SF lost in NFC title game iirc, why did the Bears not wait to interview him knowing they needed an offensive minded coach to develop Fields and McDaniel was coming from a very strong coaching tree...they hired Eberflus like he was some hot commodity after his defense was torched by a last place Jags team that knocked Indy out of the playoffs

They ask people who are 80 years old who to hire. Wonder why we end up with some defense first HITS dickhead.

McDaniels vapes and has a personality. You think they would hire him??

 

[piteus]

Plus, Poles isn't the guy developing Fields. I'm saying that there's an institutional rot at handling QB from identifying talent at the top to developing at the coaching level.

Fundamentally speaking, I just don't think the Bears know how to handle the QB position in the modern game. After all, we're the literal only franchise without a single 4000-yard passing season in the entire NFL. We're not talking some pie-in-the-sky elite goal, we're talking about something that 31 teams have done at least once and the Bears being the odd man out. We're the last kids in class to not be potty trained and we're in high school. That goes deeper than just management being clueless.

There's no rebuttal because what you say is TRUE. The one constant is ownership. I think George Halas had a hand in that since Sid Luckman. That said, at least in the last 20 years ... since we drafted Grossmam in 2003 ... ownership has tried to improve our QB play. We drafted Rex Grossman, traded for Jay Cutler, drafted Trubisky and Fields. I won't include McMahon, Harbaugh, McNown, trading for Mirer.

Let's be perfectly honest, minus McMahon ... our QB evaluation is the biggest reason for failure than coaching IMO. Don't get me wrong, our offensive coaching has definitely been suspect ... but our QB scouting has been worse.

 

[piteus]

They ask people who are 80 years old who to hire. Wonder why we end up with some defense first HITS dickhead.

McDaniels vapes and has a personality. You think they would hire him??

For a second, I thought you meant Vegas' Mcdumuels. I don't know if Miami's McDaniels would have ever taken the Bears job. Kyle Shanahan was not a fan of Justin Fields. That's why his buddy Chris Simms was so harsh on Fields. I bet McDaniels felt the same way. In fact, I heard Kyle wanted Mac ... not that he's any good either. Those guys want a QB who throw with anticipation with a capital A ... Purdy, Tua, Mac. Getsy runs a similar offense. Hence, this is probably not the best fit for Justin's skillset.

 

[Toews2Bickell]

They ask people who are 80 years old who to hire. Wonder why we end up with some defense first HITS dickhead.

McDaniels vapes and has a personality. You think they would hire him??

yesterday right as they went in for halftime they interviewed him and asked 'what is working for you guys out there' and he just said 'nothing is working for me its the players making plays' and its just like f*** man why can we not ever get one of these kind of guys...eberflus has the personality of a garage door and the team has gone nowhere in 20 games now, show him the door, trade fields for a trey lance return and start over, tons of offensive weapons in the next draft to build around, clock starts ticking on poles immediately after fields is replaced, mandate an offensive minded HC and figure it out