Battlefield V (2018)

[Throw More Waffles]

If only every child in the civilized world had some sort of device that connected them to a repository of human history and knowledge with which they could use to investigate the facts surrounding something as thoroughly documented as a World War.

If it’s not important for historical movies or video games to have accurate information, then the same probably applies to the webpages they’re visiting.

 

[syz]

Truly unfortunate that the person who played Battlefield 5 as a child ended up believing that Mary Poppins killed Archduke Ferdinand with a cosmetic attachment she acquired via a DLC loot box and that nobody thought dispute this fact when he used it as the basis for his platform to be elected Prime Minister.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Truly unfortunate that the person who played Battlefield 5 as a child ended up believing that Mary Poppins killed Archduke Ferdinand with a cosmetic attachment she acquired via a DLC loot box and that nobody thought dispute this fact when he used it as the basis for his platform to be elected Prime Minister.

Remember when Disney was accused of selling children a pro Western fake version of history? You really don’t think that was a big deal?

 

[XX]

If it’s not important for historical movies or video games to have accurate information, then the same probably applies to the webpages they’re visiting.

I don't know what everyone else is talking about, but I personally make a yearly trip out of visiting the BJ Blazkowicz memorial. That man sure knew how to kill nazis.

 

[syz]

Remember when Disney was accused of selling children a pro Western fake version of history? You really don’t think that was a big deal?

Pretending for a moment that your analogies don't suck... this would mean that Battlefield is attempting to sell children (a small portion of their install base) a... pro-woman fake version of history? The consequences of this potentially being...?

 

[XX]

Me: I don’t want this game to be politicized

You: You’re just triggered you have to share a space with women stop crying

Ok. Real nuanced take, valiant defender of womenfolk.

Sharing space with women is the normal, de facto way of the world. You might not get out enough to realize that, but that's the way it is. For most people, it's effortless. You can at least try this one time with BFV. You might even like it!

 

[Surrounded By Ahos]

It’s funny. I never saw anybody complain when Dice added ANZAC uniforms to the game, but didn’t add any Kiwi/Aussie voice actors.

Or hell, as far as I can tell Germany and Austria-Hungary share voice actors as well. This is very problematic, as it might lead morons to think that Germany and Austria-Hungary were the same empire.

The most egregious misstep in BF1 had to be the Somme map. Dice literally erased history. In the game, The Battle of the Somme is the British Empire fighting against the German.

They completely ignore France. Over 1,000,000 Frenchmen served at the Somme, with hundreds of thousands of casualties. Dice straight up leaves them out.


Nobody cared about any of the above stuff, but suddenly Dice adds women to a World War II game and everybody loses their minds.

If you dumb shits want to play a realistic WW2 game go buy Red Orchestra 2.

 

[syz]

I heard you fight Medusa in the new Assassin's Creed. Quick, somebody make a YouTube video about it.

I expect my Greek Assassin's Creed game to be absolutely nothing but perfectly historically accurate depictions of buff naked dudes having sex with each other while Diogenes throws chickens at Plato in the background.

 

[Commander Clueless]

The alpha was several months behind the beta build. The devs have been actively seeking out feedback on other forums which is refreshing including personally talking to me. The game itself is fun, which is what will matter most in the end.

I'm pretty confident of that.

You're historically more critical of the Battlefield games than I, so if you say it's good, I'm expecting big things.

 

[tacogeoff]

I used holocaust denial intentionally as an extreme in order to make the point that we all draw a line somewhere when it comes to altering history. We just disagree on where that line should be.

So it seems you’d be against the game denying the holocaust. In other words, as long as history is altered when it fits YOUR narrative, that’s ok. But only when it fits YOUR narrative.

Making a historical game without the “historical” part seems a bit silly to me.

I don't have a narrative. I have my own knowledge that was provided via schooling and post secondary education.
Its a game made for entertainment and I cant really see it being more than that.

Ill be honest. I don't follow the marketing for the battlefield series. I play them for the large multiplayer aspect. Are they actually advertising/marketing this installment as a "historically" accurate game.

I think YOUR overthinking what they are offering.

 

[GlassesJacketShirt]

I dunno about getting pissed off about a woman with face paint and a prosthetic arm in a WWII game, but I can't deny that infamous trailer was a marketing misfire. Having played Battlefield games in the past that trailer confused me more than anything else, and as an adult I don't got no time for confusion when it comes to my spending money. RDR2 is right around the corner.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Pretending for a moment that your analogies don't suck... this would mean that Battlefield is attempting to sell children (a small portion of their install base) a... pro-woman fake version of history? The consequences of this potentially being...?

I would say that altering history to sell narratives (no matter how well intentioned) is dangerous territory.

Again, you seem to like the alterations of history when they fit your narrative. What about Disneys fake pro western history? You ok with that too?

My argument? We simply shouldn't alter history in order to fit certain narratives. If you're making a ww2 game that follows real ww2 history, why create fake history? What's the point?

 

[Throw More Waffles]

I don't have a narrative. I have my own knowledge that was provided via schooling and post secondary education.
Its a game made for entertainment and I cant really see it being more than that.

Ill be honest. I don't follow the marketing for the battlefield series. I play them for the large multiplayer aspect. Are they actually advertising/marketing this installment as a "historically" accurate game.

I think YOUR overthinking what they are offering.

Disney movies that coined the term "disnified history" were just entertainment as well. You're ok with disnified fake pro western history influencing children?

 

[Surrounded By Ahos]

Disney movies that coined the term "disnified history" were just entertainment as well. You're ok with disnified fake pro western history influencing children?

Do you mean to tell me that native Americans didn’t actually wander around singing songs and talking to willow trees all day?

My mind is seriously blown.

 

[syz]

I would say that altering history to sell narratives (no matter how well intentioned) is dangerous territory.

Again, you seem to like the alterations of history when they fit your narrative. What about Disneys fake pro western history? You ok with that too?

My argument? We simply shouldn't alter history in order to fit certain narratives. If you're making a ww2 game that follows real ww2 history, why create fake history? What's the point?

You keep using the word but you still haven't managed to explain in any capacity what Battlefield V's "narrative" is and how it's actually dangerous. The fact that you're instead having to constantly reach for the stars with your (honestly not even related) propagandist whataboutisms is a sign to everybody that you're barking up the wrong tree.

You also don't seem to realize that depictions in media of any kind don't actually alter the truth, which seems like a shocking misstep for somebody in your position. The argument that you're making completely undermines your profession. Must be tough to find the motivation to keep going when history is 100% reduced to what people believe, no matter how wrong they are. I'd find a new job at that point.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

You keep using the word but you still haven't managed to explain in any capacity what Battlefield V's "narrative" is and how it's actually dangerous. The fact that you're instead having to constantly reach for the stars with your (honestly not even related) propagandist whataboutisms is a sign to everybody that you're barking up the wrong tree.

You also don't seem to realize that depictions in media of any kind don't actually alter the truth, which seems like a shocking misstep for somebody in your position. The argument that you're making completely undermines your profession. Must be tough to find the motivation to keep going when history is 100% reduced to what people believe, no matter how wrong they are. I'd find a new job at that point.

I'm saying that in making a historical video game, altering the social history is dangerous. Changing the genders, races, religions, etc of historical events in the past is dangerous territory. It doesn't take a lot of imagination to see how quickly this can go wrong.

Again, Battlefield is rammed full of real history. Why add fake history? You tell me.

And as a history teacher, I see first hand just how stongly my students are influenced by entertainment/media when it comes to shaping their historical world view. Sure, I do my part to guide my students, and that's not what I'm complaining about here. students are bombarded by so much fake crap that I wish there was MORE emphasis on social studies in school. But there isn't. That's the problem.
It's cute having some kid on the internet explain my profession to me though. What, have you put maybe 10 minutes of thought into this?

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Do you mean to tell me that native Americans didn’t actually wander around singing songs and talking to willow trees all day?

My mind is seriously blown.

So you're saying you have no problem with historical movies targeted at children altering history for the sake of pushing a narrative?

 

[ArGarBarGar]

So you're saying you have no problem with historical movies targeted at children altering history for the sake of pushing a narrative?

What narrative? That women might be able to fight in a video game based around WWII?

Also this game is M rated. This isn't directed at children. Use better comparisons.

 

[Commander Clueless]

I was really trying to avoid these political discussions, but I have to ask: why on earth are we talking about shaping kids' "historical worldviews" in game that will undoubtedly be rated for adults?

 

[Throw More Waffles]

What narrative? That women might be able to fight in a video game based around WWII?

Also this game is M rated. This isn't directed at children. Use better comparisons.

We all know who’s playing these games.

Regardless, my point is this. We have a line somewhere. If this game flat out denied the holocaust and was influencing the children who played it, that would be a problem, right?

So there is a line. We’re all just trying to figure out where to draw it.

Me? I draw a firm line at the alteration of social history. It can only go to bad places. I don’t draw the line at machine guns that shoot too fast, or skins, etc. I draw it at the alteration of social history, regardless of good intentions.

Where is your line? I ask that in a non confrontational manner.

 

[Commander Clueless]

We all know who’s playing these games.

But if you believe that this game is inappropriate for children, shouldn't this be the problem you target?

 

[Throw More Waffles]

I was really trying to avoid these political discussions, but I have to ask: why on earth are we talking about shaping kids' "historical worldviews" in game that will undoubtedly be rated for adults?

Because we all know that millions of kids play these games. I started out in this thread by explaining that a lot of my students had a strong understanding of ww1, and they all said it’s because of battlefield 1.

Regardless, I don’t think teaching adults fake history is a good thing either.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

Me? I draw a firm line at the alteration of social history. It can only go to bad places. I don’t draw the line at machine guns that shoot too fast, or skins, etc. I draw it at the alteration of social history, regardless of good intentions.

Where is your line? I ask that in a non confrontational manner.

"Social history", meaning what?

Women being on the front lines is literally a factual inaccuracy. I don't know what the line is, but it certainly isn't women in a fake war game loosely based around a real war. These are video games that are not advertised or developed as teaching tools. They are games made for fun and to make money.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

"Social history", meaning what?

Women being on the front lines is literally a factual inaccuracy. I don't know what the line is, but it certainly isn't women in a fake war game loosely based around a real war. These are video games that are not advertised or developed as teaching tools. They are games made for fun and to make money.

Teaching a fake history “to make money” is an argument... I guess.

Why not make it if you choose a woman, you have to play as a Russian? They could even have a little blurb explaining why.

A case has been made that Germany dramatically underestimated Soviet reserves, which is a key reason why Barbarossa failed. Why? Because they didn’t account for millions of Russian women on the front lines. That’s real history. Why not just include that? Why create a fake social history?

I guess it doesn’t matter. I’m not going to convince somebody who thinks historical pieces of entertainment can create fake history “for money”.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

Teaching a fake history “to make money” is an argument... I guess.

Why not make it if you choose a woman, you have to play as a Russian? They could even have a little blurb explaining why.

A case has been made that Germany dramatically underestimated Soviet reserves, which is a key reason why Barbarossa failed. Why? Because they didn’t account for 30 million Russian women on the front lines. That’s real history. Why not just include that? Why create a fake social history?

I guess it doesn’t matter. I’m not going to convince somebody who thinks historical pieces of entertainment can create fake history “for money”.

It's all fake. There wasn't a real Lt. Mike Powell who stormed the beaches and single-handedly stops the production of mustard gas in Fort Schmerzen, but were you there upset about the first Medal of Honor game teaching this fake history lesson?

It is a game. It isn't trying to teach anything.