Blue Jays Discussion: Baseball is back. Yay Controversy.

[King Mapes]

Continue.

3 games in.

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[Yourself]

After finally seeing that play, wow are you guys a bunch of homers. JB quite clearly turned only to make contact with the fielder. I mean who slides like that if the are not? He also clearly tries to get ahold of the foot as much as possible.

Stop complaining about the rule and maybe complain about the thing that would make sense to complain about, being that we had a player (JB) who made a ridiculously stupid play and probably cost the team the game (I mean after all if what he did made no difference in the throw then why in the hell would he do it). The umps are not the one to blame here, it is Jose (since people seem to need to blame someone).

Either way, a Jays win tomorrow and you all forget about this.

 

[Cor]

@KingMapes.

Yes I watch baseball. Thanks.

My Final Thoughts;

Players were able to slide into the 2nd baseman and interrupt a throw. Now, they have made it so you can only do so if it's in your path, no more crazy alterations.

HOWEVER, you have NEVER been able to grab a player to interrupt a play. Ankle, Arm, Jersey, whatever, slide or not.

Now, officials say it wasn't the new slide rule they were looking at, however, I suppose, plain interference. Which isn't reviewable.

So, it's not the action of Jose that people should be upset about, which he is guilty of, it's the reviewing of it, that is the issue.

Thus, Gibby and the Jays should protest this game.

 

[King Mapes]

After finally seeing that play, wow are you guys a bunch of homers. JB quite clearly turned only to make contact with the fielder. I mean who slides like that if the are not? He also clearly tries to get ahold of the foot as much as possible.

Stop complaining about the rule and maybe complain about the thing that would make sense to complain about, being that we had a player (JB) who made a ridiculously stupid play and probably cost the team the game (I mean after all if what he did made no difference in the throw then why in the hell would he do it). The umps are not the one to blame here, it is Jose (since people seem to need to blame someone).

Either way, a Jays win tomorrow and you all forget about this.

Yes because, you know, a player was taught something his whole life and should learn to slide differently overnight. It's a new rule.

If anyone I blame EE. Bases loaded back to back innings and nothing.

The rule is beyond stupid though and something I thought as soon as I heard it.

But the play isn't reviewable so yes we do have a reason to be pissed.

 

[King Mapes]

@KingMapes.

Yes I watch baseball. Thanks.

My Final Thoughts;

Players were able to slide into the 2nd baseman and interrupt a throw. Now, they have made it so you can only do so if it's in your path, no more crazy alterations.

HOWEVER, you have NEVER been able to grab a player to interrupt a play. Ankle, Arm, Jersey, whatever, slide or not.

Now, officials say it wasn't the new slide rule they were looking at, however, I suppose, plain interference. Which isn't reviewable.

So, it's not the action of Jose that people should be upset about, which he is guilty of, it's the reviewing of it, that is the issue.

Thus, Gibby and the Jays should protest this game.

I apologize, I'm a little pissed in how it ended. Would have much preferred a 1-2-3 ending.

 

[Yourself]

Yes because, you know, a player was taught something his whole life and should learn to slide differently overnight. It's a new rule.

If anyone I blame EE. Bases loaded back to back innings and nothing.

The rule is beyond stupid though and something I thought as soon as I heard it.

But the play isn't reviewable so yes we do have a reason to be pissed.

You don't get taught your whole life to reach out with your arm and attempt to grab someones' foot while sliding hard. You get taught to slide hard and make them have to throw around you by having to alter there feet/body during their throw. These two things are completely different.

edit: The replay remard was edited as I was posting. Sure, that is a somewhat viable reason to be mad, but anyone (imo) complaining about the actual rule itself doesn't know what a legit slide is and is not. At the end of the day though, Jose has no reason to decide to reach out like he did. He should have been called on it right away. But yes, using the replay improperly is not something you want to see.

 

[p.l.f.]

Hopefully they can take this anger in a positive way and score 15 runs tomorrow
And hopefully it's the Pittsburgh Happ and not the Seattle one we'll see

 

[Muston Atthews]

You don't get taught your whole life to reach out with your arm and attempt to grab someones' foot while sliding hard. You get taught to slide hard and make them have to throw around you by having to alter there feet/body during their throw. These two things are completely different.

Players would slide all the time with their arms/face/legs to disrupt the throw. Jose threw his arm out to disrupt the throw, there was no grab.

 

[King Mapes]

You don't get taught your whole life to reach out with your arm and attempt to grab someones' foot while sliding hard. You get taught to slide hard and make them have to throw around you by having to alter there feet/body during their throw. These two things are completely different.

You get taught to break up double plays at second. Guys have moved their arms like that for years and you never get called. It wasn't really a grab, more a touch. But it isn't reviewable. So there's that..

 

[theaub]

fwiw, why is everyone saying interference isn't reviewable? Interference related to double play breakup slides is rather clearly reviewable as it just happened.

 

[A1LeafNation]

That's why ee has no contract yet. Gotta earn it EE.

 

[Yourself]

Players would slide all the time with their arms/face/legs to disrupt the throw. Jose threw his arm out to disrupt the throw, there was no grab.

There was a distinct "grab" in the sense that he put his arm in a spot and moved it in a way to turn the guys leg some. Sure he didn't close his hand on the guy ankle, but I can see him clearly trying to turn/move the guys leg in a way that is more then just sliding into him.

 

[stavs*]

missed the game, how was Sanchez?

 

[Swervin81]

Apparently, the league ruled that it was criteria #3 that Bautista failed. They're saying he made no attempt to stay on the bag.

 

[Canada4Gold]

fwiw, why is everyone saying interference isn't reviewable? Interference related to double play breakup slides is rather clearly reviewable as it just happened.

the slide play is reviewable. But that's the only reveiwable interference call according to MLB rules

http://m.mlb.com/official_rules/replay_review

Interference for the Purpose of Breaking Up a Double Play. An Umpire's determination under Official Baseball Rule 6.01(j).
NOTE: Other than for purposes of determining whether the runner interfered with a fielder within the meaning of Rule 6.01(j), whether a base runner willfully or deliberately interfered with a fielder with the intent to break up a double play, within the meaning of Rule 6.01(a)(6) or (7), shall not be reviewable.

Example 1. While running to second base, a runner intentionally collides with the second baseman, who is attempting to field a ground ball between the bases. Because whether the runner engaged in a bona fide slide is not at issue, whether the umpire determines there was interference is not reviewable.

The only revewable part is 6.01(j) which is the slide rule I posted in the GDT with the 4 components, the 3rd of which Jose broke by not attempting to remain on the base after he was already out. Even though he could have remained on the base.

Which I think is dumb, the requirement should be the possibility of remaining on the base as that's the part that slows the runner down and negates violent contact. Forcing a runner to try and touch the base when he's already out is stupid.

 

[King Mapes]

missed the game, how was Sanchez?

Awesome, especially his change up which was touching the low 90s.

 

[Muston Atthews]

fwiw, why is everyone saying interference isn't reviewable? Interference related to double play breakup slides is rather clearly reviewable as it just happened.

Apparently the reaching out part isn't reviewable, the purposeful slide out of the basepath/through the base is reviewable.

 

[The Nemesis]

You know what they say, controversy builds character.

Awesome, especially his change up which was touching the low 90s.

I love that for most pitchers, a changeup in the low 90s would be terrible.

 

[Muston Atthews]

Apparently, the league ruled that it was criteria #3 that Bautista failed. They're saying he made no attempt to stay on the bag.

Which makes no sense. Why would he sit on the bag after he's out?

 

[Muston Atthews]

 

[theaub]

I still don't see why the fourth part of the rule wouldn't apply here

However, if someone is going to tell me that even if Jose didn't grab the leg that there would be a chance he was out because he didn't stay on the bag that is ridiculous. That part of the rule is pretty clear defined to prevent players from blowing up defenders who are behind the bag and vulnerable at the time of the throw. If no one is there Jose should be able to slide as far as he wants.

 

[Maplebeasts]

Apparently, the league ruled that it was criteria #3 that Bautista failed. They're saying he made no attempt to stay on the bag.

Joke call then. I don't know how you can say he didn't attempt to sty on the bag. Something tells me the bronx bombers don't get this ******** in this situation. I'm so salty about it.

 

[A1LeafNation]

Sanchez and stroman as the 1 2 combo

 

[Throw More Waffles]

You don't get taught your whole life to reach out with your arm and attempt to grab someones' foot while sliding hard. You get taught to slide hard and make them have to throw around you by having to alter there feet/body during their throw. These two things are completely different.

edit: The replay remard was edited as I was posting. Sure, that is a somewhat viable reason to be mad, but anyone (imo) complaining about the actual rule itself doesn't know what a legit slide is and is not. At the end of the day though, Jose has no reason to decide to reach out like he did. He should have been called on it right away. But yes, using the replay improperly is not something you want to see.

I at first agreed that Jose should have been called out based on the grab.

But then people proved that interference like that is not allowed to be reviewed.

So the way I see it now...
Jose grabbing the 2nd baseman was a mistake.
But the umpires breaking the rules to review it was a FAR bigger mistake. And to lose a game due to the umps FAR bigger mistake is simply unfair and seems bush league.

Feels like baseball rules are becoming too confusing and theres no longer black and white clear answers.
There was the whole debacle in the playoffs with the throw to the pitcher, hit the batter, ump calls dead ball, 3rd baseman doesn't bother moving because dead ball was called, runner scores. Run counts. What kind of nonsense was that?

Or just the other day where Encarnacion didn't tag up and run to third because the ump called the ball dead. So then when the umps changed the call to "caught", should Encarnacion be moved to third?

Using instant replay on all these issues is causing nothing but problems. I liked it better when the call on the field stood. The end. It benefits your team as much as it screws you over. But at least everybody understand what the hell is going on.

 

[theaub]

I applaud this only for him meta-calling out his home stadium.