Barry Trotz and Importance of Coaching

[Ghosts Beer]

In B4 it turns into a hot goaltender thread

You knew what I’d argue.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Problem with the Islanders is they were a very similar team (with many of the same players) before they panicked two years ago, fired Capuano and replaced him with Weight.
So how much is Trotz coaching them up, and how much is merely restoring sanity?

Restoring sanity IS coaching up.


It's hilarious how desperate Hakstol made you when it comes to arguing against coaching, in particular coaches who are better than Hak.

 

[flyersjim73]

Completely agree with this and I’ve been thinking this the whole year. If the Flyers hires Trotz at the beginning of this year, they’d be leading the division. I am not remotely kidding.

Get the right coach next year and this exact same roster (although the roster will likely be better anyways) will be fighting to win the division.

 

[Starat327]

Restoring sanity IS coaching up.


It's hilarious how desperate Hakstol made you when it comes to arguing against coaching, in particular coaches who are better than Hak.

ItS nOt coAChinG It's HoT GoAlIes

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Trotz wasn’t going to make the team go better than 5-8-3 with Pickard, Neuvirth, Lyon, & McKenna in net for almost 1000 minutes of .850 save % hockey.

And somehow I doubt the .902 Stolarz posted in his 12 games shoots up to the .928 Lehner/Greiss have posted in a combined 64 games.

 

[deadhead]

Trotz can play goal?

Trotz wouldn't have made a big difference here because Hakstol had them playing good defense (top ten in scoring chances, HDCA allowed), so his disciplined approach wouldn't provide the same benefits it did in the clusterf--- that Weight left behind him. Trotz has a good goaltending coach, but you have to have the players to coach. We didn't have any healthy goalies.

Trotz would be an upgrade over Gordon in that the Flyers have become sloppy since Gordon took over, more aggressive but less disciplined (way too many easy scoring chances allowed, Hart kept them in games until he got injured).

Trotz broke down Holtby: 72. 66, 63 starts his first three years with Trotz, .923, .922, .925, last two seasons, .907, .908.

The right coach won't fix the flaws on this roster, a coach can use players better, but he can't make them faster or shoot more accurately. When Sullivan took over in Pittsburgh, for example, the GM retooled the roster to fit his style of coaching.

 

[Starat327]

The fact that a coach can implement a system that makes average goalies look good being lost on you is absolutely hilarious.

Would Trotz have the flyers leading the division? Probably not. But he wouldn't have them floundering at the bottom of the league, that's for sure.

 

[baudib1]

There's an article at The Athletic where Trotz talks about what he did. They basically took the Islanders' system and upgraded it.

“We were fortunate,” Trotz said, “because the basic principles of the system were similar. They played a 1-1-3 in the past. They didn’t have the 2.0 version. They just had the 1.0 version. When we came in with some of what we call our protocols and our ways of doing things, it connected the dots for them.
“There was a little bit of a cultural change – how we practiced and why we practiced. We gave them a lot of the why. It was: ‘this is what we’re doing … and here’s why.’ We gave them good examples of that – and then they’ve built on that.”

The Islanders went from giving up 35.5 shots per game to 30.8.

Jordan Eberle:

“Barry’s done a good job of implementing a system that’s easy to understand and where there’s not any grey area. Everyone knows their assignments, whether it’s D-zone, or neutral zone, or whatever. He’s done a good job of teaching it – and the guys have done a good job of learning it. There’s a lot of predictability in our game. You know what guys are going to do. You know how we need to play – and we’ve done a good job of sticking to that.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

In 12/13 with Nashville, Trotz had to play Chris Mason in 11 of 48 games.

He put up an .873 save % & his record was 1-7-1.

The team finished under .500 & missed the playoffs.

Trotz is not a magician.

 

[YEM]

Flyers are in a playoff spot today if Trotz was the coach all season.

 

[deadhead]

Trotz can't play goal, and his system is no more goalie friendly than Hakstol.
The problem with Hakstol's scheme, which people complained about repeatedly, was on offense, not defense.

The Islanders were the worst defensive team in the NHL last year, and wasted some top talents.
That's a much easier fix, it's not like Trotz was going to get Giroux and Couts to play better than they did last year (or fix Cout's knee so he didn't struggle for a month).

 

[Starat327]

Flyers are in a playoff spot today if Trotz was the coach all season.

No question.

 

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

It's clear from reading that Trotz did something in New York that Hakstol could never do in Philadelphia - COMMUNICATE with the players. It's clear that Trotz EXPLAINED to the team why they were doing the things they did. It's clear from Hakstol's past interviews that he was a TERRIBLE communicator. Simple system tweaks like what Trotz mentioned can go a long way in protecting goalies. Hakstol's system wasn't goalie or offense friendly, it was a system designed strictly for perimeter play. That's it. He handcuffed his defensemen with his poor man's Jacques Lemaire system and he often targeted young players as reasons why the team lost. You never saw him turn on veterans the way he turned on young players. Hakstol is a giant piece of shit and good riddance to the rubbish system he brought with him.

 

[deadhead]

Trotz wasn't going to come here and turn things around like he did in NY this year. That's wishful thinking.

This was a good defensive team with bad goalies, he wasn't going to make a defense with inexperienced kids and mediocre veterans that was already playing well into an elite defense, or make bad goalies become good goalies. Or fix Cout's knee (he was awful the first month) or get Lyon healthy (he's lights out this spring in LHV).

All you have to do is see Hitchcock, a defensive minded coach, struggle in Edmonton to understand that coaches can't turn sow's ears into silk purses.

Berube is 25-14-2 in St Louis, that's as good as Trotz's record in NY. Is he as good of a HC as Trotz?

Trotz would be an upgrade over Gordon, who is a worse HC than Hakstol (but a good choice as an interim coach once they bring up more AHL players, his strength is communicating with young players, other than that . . .). That's because Trotz would get this team to play a more disciplined game.

Fit is as important for coaches as it is for players, first the GM has to decide the kind of team he's building, then choose a coach best suited to that style of play.

 

[He Is Knocking]

The Flyers would be where the Islanders are if they would have hired Trotz.

Yeah I know we had a spate of injuries at the goaltender position but the pee poor coaching assisted in the goaltenders at risk by not employing the skaters in the best position to succeed, trotting out tired and expired talent, explaining away their mistakes while punishing the young talent for miscues.

Hakstol was the worst coach this franchise ever had and ever will have.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

So why did Chris Mason go 1-7-1 with an .873 save pct & Nash finish under .500 & miss the playoffs under Trotz in 12/13?

Bueller?

 

[He Is Knocking]

So why did Chris Mason go 1-7-1 with an .873 save pct & Nash finish under .500 & miss the playoffs under Trotz in 12/13?

Bueller?

Anyone can cherry pick a year, a player so on to critique someone but facts are facts.

The Islanders lost their best player, they hadn't signed much in the way of significance......

Everyone had the Islanders as one of the worst teams in the NHL this year but they aren't, giving credit where it's due.

 

[Starat327]

So why did Chris Mason go 1-7-1 with an .873 save pct & Nash finish under .500 & miss the playoffs under Trotz in 12/13?

Bueller?

Why did Giroux have a record year under a coach whose system generally lacked offense?

See look, I can do it too!

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Anyone can cherry pick a year, a player so on to critique someone but facts are facts.

The Islanders lost their best player, they hadn't signed much in the way of significance......

Everyone had the Islanders as one of the worst teams in the NHL this year but they aren't, giving credit where it's due.

I’m certainly not arguing that Trotz is a bad coach.

I’m arguing that Trotz isn’t immune to awful goaltending, which a lot of posters seem to think.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Why did Giroux have a record year under a coach whose system generally lacked offense?

See look, I can do it too!

You can do what?

 

[Starat327]

You can do what?

Take a one off scenario and try to make it seem like it's reflective of an entire body of work.


But to answer your question, Chris Mason was never a great goalie to begin with. He had been declining in consecutive years and was 36 during the season you are referencing. As you stated earlier, Trotz isn't a magician.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Take a one off scenario and try to make it seem like it's reflective of an entire body of work.


But to answer your question, Chris Mason was never a great goalie to begin with. He had been declining in consecutive years and was 36 during the season you are referencing. As you stated earlier, Trotz isn't a magician.

OK, we agree that Trotz wouldn’t have been a magician during all the minutes Pickard, Neuvirth, Lyon, McKenna, & Stolarz played this season that would make the Flyers a division leading team.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Anyone can cherry pick a year, a player so on to critique someone but facts are facts.

The Islanders lost their best player, they hadn't signed much in the way of significance......

Everyone had the Islanders as one of the worst teams in the NHL this year but they aren't, giving credit where it's due.

My point was specifically related to Trotz being able to overcome bad goaltending. Yours didn’t make much sense.

 

[Starat327]

OK, we agree that Trotz wouldn’t have been a magician during all the minutes Pickard, Neuvirth, Lyon, McKenna, & Stolarz played this season that would make the Flyers a division leading team.

No, I do not think it's reasonable to think he'd have the flyers in the same position as the Islanders currently are.

Yes, I think it's reasonable to believe they wouldn't have been the worst team in the NHL at any point this year if we had Trotz to start this year as opposed to Hakstol, and we would be better positioned to make a really playoff push.

 

[bauer]

i see the usual contrarians are at it again.

coaching matters. if you think it doesn't, you don't know a thing about hockey.