The fact that you have Carter Hart and Mitch Korn is available, but you say nope I'm sticking by Jeff is unforgivable negligence on GM's part and he should of been fired right then.
Barry Trotz and Importance of Coaching
- Thread starter briererocks
- Start date
I think it’s half Trotz, half unsustainable good fortune. Bad coaching can ruin a team though and the Flyers have fumbled with like four or five head coaches in a row, not even touching on the assistants. So I don’t expect much at this point.
Beef Invictus
Revolutionary Positivity
A good system makes a goalie's life easier. That is known fact.
The fact that this even seems debatable is baffling unless person making the opposite claim has literally never played the game.
BackToTheBrierePatch
Nope not today.
I think Korn and Trotz are tied at the hip. But Hextall was fine with status quo and here we are today
BobbyClarkeFan16
Registered User
....but, but, but.....Corsi stats and the like. They NEVER lie. You don't need to watch the game when you rely on stats.
deadhead
Registered User
- Feb 26, 2014
- 49,215
- 21,617
Everything is always extremes around here, either you agree with me or you must believe the total opposite.
Does coaching matter, of course. The question is HOW much does coaching matter, and when and where.
That is, a good coach in one situation may be a mediocre coach in other situations or with different talent.
See Lavi on the Flyers.
Flyers haven't had bad coaches, they've had mediocre coaches.
Weight was a bad coach, he took a playoff caliber team and buried them.
Both Hextall and Berube got mediocre teams to the playoffs.
Berube has completely turned around St Louis. A hot goaltender helps, but you could say the same for Trotz.
No coach can overcome bad goaltending, a good coach with the right talent can work around mediocre goaltending.
Does coaching matter, of course. The question is HOW much does coaching matter, and when and where.
That is, a good coach in one situation may be a mediocre coach in other situations or with different talent.
See Lavi on the Flyers.
Flyers haven't had bad coaches, they've had mediocre coaches.
Weight was a bad coach, he took a playoff caliber team and buried them.
Both Hextall and Berube got mediocre teams to the playoffs.
Berube has completely turned around St Louis. A hot goaltender helps, but you could say the same for Trotz.
No coach can overcome bad goaltending, a good coach with the right talent can work around mediocre goaltending.
BackToTheBrierePatch
Nope not today.
Hes not. But lets not assume coaching is overrated or does not make a difference.
Hakstol is a bad coach and Trotz is a really good coach. Just like Torts and coach Q.
Either of those last 3 are here and are definitely in a playoff spot.
BackToTheBrierePatch
Nope not today.
Dont you know that Hakstol could of won all those Cups if he replaced Bowman? Hypothetically of course.
Beef Invictus
Revolutionary Positivity
You've argued against coaching to the point where you've reduced it to minimal importance, so that "of course" is laughable.
Niemi was bad in the SC finals and the Hawks seemed to do a good job, if memory serves.
The problem with your idea of 'bad goaltending' is all you do is look at stats and say good it bad goaltending. You can have bad goaltending with good stats, simply because of the system that's being played. Again, ilya brygalov and Mike Smith in Phoenix are good examples.
There are very few goalies who are good goalies regardless of system played. Like, a very minute amount. Coaches in the NHL gear their game plan to the players at their disposal. This isn't soccer where you find your players and go buy them. Coaches get the players to buy in and adjust, because you don't have the roster flexibility yo do otherwise. Hakstol didn't get the team to the playoffs..he was carried there by a 30 year old Giroux, who is one the most elite players to ever touch the ice in this generation.
deadhead
Registered User
- Feb 26, 2014
- 49,215
- 21,617
Bad coaches don't take mediocre teams to the playoffs.
People engage in hyperbole on the internet almost as if it's a requirement for posting.
In the real world, there's a spectrum, few really bad coaches because they get selected out quickly, a lot of mediocre coaches who get by for a while and have some success, fewer good coaches who consistently have success, and a small group of great coaches who excel.
I'm not sure I'd consider either Lavi or Trotz "great" coaches, probably "very good", but not guys who dominated the sport.
People engage in hyperbole on the internet almost as if it's a requirement for posting.
In the real world, there's a spectrum, few really bad coaches because they get selected out quickly, a lot of mediocre coaches who get by for a while and have some success, fewer good coaches who consistently have success, and a small group of great coaches who excel.
I'm not sure I'd consider either Lavi or Trotz "great" coaches, probably "very good", but not guys who dominated the sport.
SI90
Registered User
Isles fan coming in peace. I was always in the camp that 99% of the results come from the players and the talent. Obviously Trotz has changed that thinking for me.
Trotz has come in and changed the entire franchise along with Lou.
When Trotz was first hired he said emphatically he will make the defense better. If you look at the islanders defense we don’t have a real#1 or all star defenseman. We have a few solid guys and Pulock and Toews with high potential.
Most of us thought he would improve the defense but what he has done has been incredible. He’s implemented a system and has coached up our players to be better and effective and it’s paid off. He’s never out coached and he makes great I n game adjustments as well as game to game adjustments. He’s great at matchups and balancing TOI. He reads the game and calls the right numbers more often than not.
I would say that coaching most definitely has a huge impact on the game. Weight and capuano were on over their heads.
The pst isles teams would have goal scorers and guys putting up points but running around with no structure.
This year, guys have sacrificed offense a bit but our goal differencential is now the best in the metro and we’re winning.
Trotz has come in and changed the entire franchise along with Lou.
When Trotz was first hired he said emphatically he will make the defense better. If you look at the islanders defense we don’t have a real#1 or all star defenseman. We have a few solid guys and Pulock and Toews with high potential.
Most of us thought he would improve the defense but what he has done has been incredible. He’s implemented a system and has coached up our players to be better and effective and it’s paid off. He’s never out coached and he makes great I n game adjustments as well as game to game adjustments. He’s great at matchups and balancing TOI. He reads the game and calls the right numbers more often than not.
I would say that coaching most definitely has a huge impact on the game. Weight and capuano were on over their heads.
The pst isles teams would have goal scorers and guys putting up points but running around with no structure.
This year, guys have sacrificed offense a bit but our goal differencential is now the best in the metro and we’re winning.
Beef Invictus
Revolutionary Positivity
No, but a handful of star players performing out of their minds to overcome roster and coaching flaws can. You should know that, you've watched it a few times now.
YEM
Registered User
- Mar 7, 2010
- 5,718
- 2,697
Yep
You can tell how bad the arguments are otherwise when one consists of cherry picking and saying “butbutbut what about this year” and the duhness of “Trotz doesn’t play goalie”
#irony
Your post here is hyperbolic, half the teams in the league make the playoffs, meaning that mediocre teams get there every season.
deadhead
Registered User
- Feb 26, 2014
- 49,215
- 21,617
Except Capuano had similar results to Trotz with similar players.
Had Trotz replaced Capuano there would have been a slight uptick, because Trotz is a better coach.
But Trotz took over a total mess created by Weight, who was a bad coach.
Some mediocre teams make the playoffs, what makes them mediocre is they have just enough talent to get to the playoffs if things go right, but not if things go wrong.
So mediocre coaches with mediocre teams should make the playoffs on a regular, but not consistent basis.
Mediocre coaches on good teams will make the playoffs most years.
Bad coaches on mediocre teams fall short consistently, get fired and are never heard from again.
Coaches of any quality rarely take bad teams to the playoffs, see Peters in Carolina. You gotta have some talent.
Flyers have been a mediocre team since 2012-13 under Lavi, then Berube, Hakstol and now Gordon.
And they've made the playoffs every other year.
Had Trotz replaced Capuano there would have been a slight uptick, because Trotz is a better coach.
But Trotz took over a total mess created by Weight, who was a bad coach.
Some mediocre teams make the playoffs, what makes them mediocre is they have just enough talent to get to the playoffs if things go right, but not if things go wrong.
So mediocre coaches with mediocre teams should make the playoffs on a regular, but not consistent basis.
Mediocre coaches on good teams will make the playoffs most years.
Bad coaches on mediocre teams fall short consistently, get fired and are never heard from again.
Coaches of any quality rarely take bad teams to the playoffs, see Peters in Carolina. You gotta have some talent.
Flyers have been a mediocre team since 2012-13 under Lavi, then Berube, Hakstol and now Gordon.
And they've made the playoffs every other year.
General Joseph
Registered User
I got to see the islanders play this year , and i was impressed with the size and speed of that team . Big strong lads on D that play within themselves and try not to get too cute with the puck . Trotz is a fine coach , and he is no dummy , he knew what Lou was building and was smart to get in on the ground floor , i told a buddy of mine during the game that the Isles are gonna be a pain in the Flyers a$$ over the foreseeable future .. Good solid goaltending hides alot of weaknesses a club has , and whether folks want to admit it or not Berube , Hakstol , and even Lavy never got great consistent goaltending during their tenure's as coach . Carter Harts hot streak certainly made the Flyers look like a much better team etc .
Ultimately I think the Isles can't match the Flyers in terms of offensive depth and prospect talent pool.
Ho-Sang looks like he's not going to really get a shot there. Bellows looks like a bust. Wahlstrom is scoring at 1/2 the rate of Farabee.
If the Flyers can find a competent coach they shouldn't have any trouble staying on top of the Isles.
Ho-Sang looks like he's not going to really get a shot there. Bellows looks like a bust. Wahlstrom is scoring at 1/2 the rate of Farabee.
If the Flyers can find a competent coach they shouldn't have any trouble staying on top of the Isles.
Enjoying the fact that capuano and Trotz had 'similar players' while one had a franchise c and the other didn't.
But I guess when you think Nolan Patrick will be better than Tavares before seasons end, it goes to show how poorly you a) rate tavares or b) evaluate talent or c) rhetmost likely scenario, both.
But I guess when you think Nolan Patrick will be better than Tavares before seasons end, it goes to show how poorly you a) rate tavares or b) evaluate talent or c) rhetmost likely scenario, both.
BackToTheBrierePatch
Nope not today.
Capuano had Tavares. Trotz has a team picked by many to be last or next to last in the Metro.
Coaching matters. A lot
Coaching matters. A lot
Beef Invictus
Revolutionary Positivity
The very idea that they were practically the same roster is laughable.
It does. The problem is that there aren't that many good ones that can truly adjust effectively to their personnel.
deadhead
Registered User
- Feb 26, 2014
- 49,215
- 21,617
Uh, Barzal outscored JT on the same team last year playing 2 less minutes a night.
Barzal's scoring is down this year b/c Trotz plays a conservative system.
So JT v Barzal is pretty close to even.
Little easier to score when Tavares is drawing the tougher matchups, too.
But that doesn't fit the narrative, so I get it.
Ad
Latest posts
-
-
-
NFL to allow Guardian Caps in games startin 2024 season- Latest: LadyStanley
Upcoming events
-
BET ON ONLY ONE HORSE Bewitch Stakes (Gr. 3) - KEENELAND RACE 8Wagers: 7Staked: $2,750.00Event closes- Updated:
-
-
-
Game 2 Belleville Senators @ Toronto Marlies -Belleville Senators leads series 1-0Event closes- Updated:
-