Back up goalie

[onlylordsvsmorebp]

in my opinion tokarski would be perfect for the flyers...no.1, hes really good.

no.2, he could start for us, no problem, if mason went down for any extended amount of time, including playoffs. as opposed to some backups...not naming names but EMERY/ZEPP.

no.3, hes mentally tough, with his experience...he could handle the cauldron in philly.

 

[Appleyard]

I do think there are probably ~10 goalies playing around Europe who could be pretty effective in the NHL.

The hardest part would be separating the guys from their system/team etc to see who would be able to post ~.910 and who would be more like ~.900... I am pretty sure a whole host of guys from europe could come in and play at ~.900.

I mean, I would expect guys like Barulin and Kovar to be capable as a backup, but after a few guys it gets cloudy.

Hudacek would be fun to watch... but not sure if he could translate his play to North America!

 

[FLYguy3911]

Hard to predict goalies coming from overseas. Its a different game. That's why you rarely see goalies come right over and step in right away and have success. We had one, but most need time to adjust in the AHL. You can't count on one to be your NHL backup.

Everyone gets excited over numbers, but generally the European leagues are lower scoring, with a lot of trapping. As Appleyard said, it can boost some guys' numbers (Eriksson).

 

[Ryker]

I do think there are probably ~10 goalies playing around Europe who could be pretty effective in the NHL.

The hardest part would be separating the guys from their system/team etc to see who would be able to post ~.910 and who would be more like ~.900... I am pretty sure a whole host of guys from europe could come in and play at ~.900.

I mean, I would expect guys like Barulin and Kovar to be capable as a backup, but after a few guys it gets cloudy.

Hudacek would be fun to watch... but not sure if he could translate his play to North America!

Timo Pielmeier or Danny aus den Birken, please

 

[Sawdalite]

Okay... Here's an affordable way with high upside and really a minimal downside when you realize that in-season it is not all that difficult to obtain a backup Goalie, just maybe a bit more expensive for part of a Season... and we are really looking at a Season to Season player that earns or loses his job each Season and earns his worth/contract depending on his play.

Not to be over simplistic, yet state it simply... Take basically the same ace Scouting Team that analyzed the talent of Mason in Columbus and determined that with a change of scenery he would be a capable backup or maybe higher... and find a talented Goalie who under achieved where he was... when sure he's worth the chance, convince him to play at a fair Contract that allows him to prove his worth to the Flyers AND ALSO to all the other Organizations -- the trick is to also have in place a very good Goalie Coach to direct and access his progress. Keep in mind that he will be looked at basically as a Backup and not as a long-term player... IIRC Mason was obtained as a Backup but played his way into a couple new and lucrative Contracts and a Starting job... I believe Emery on both stints was brought in as a prove your worth Goalie.

So I suppose I'm suggesting here that we go after a UFA with basic raw talent that our Scouts feel is really in need of a new environment... He should come at a fair Contract and work his tail off to earn his future contracts... or go down trying. The downside is really not that great while the upside could be. Mason will play the lion's share if he is able health-wise... and if a real long-term situation arises there is always going on the Market to trade for a Goalie... or the new Backup could prove worthy.

Keeping in mind that the Flyers went after an established starter and invested Millions of Dollars and many years in him only to have to buy out Bryz after his first Season IIRC. ... The odds of two straight successful reclamation projects in a row -- depending on how you view the latest Emery stint(s) -- may seem like asking a lot... But I trust these Scouts... I only wish Jeff Reese was still in the picture. For a re-tooling team up against the Cap, this may not be that risky... what the worst that could happen? What's the best?

Just a thought... Sorry not to include any names to mull over though.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Eh, I'm not one of the ones who got worked up about Reese being fired.

I always thought he ruined Bobrovsky, and he sure did nothing to help Bryzgalov.

Frankly, Mason played even better after he left, too, so it's not like he and Mason are ET and Elliot.

I'm sure Hextall will be able to find a more than adequate goalie coach.

 

[Sawdalite]

Eh, I'm not one of the ones who got worked up about Reese being fired.

I always thought he ruined Bobrovsky, and he sure did nothing to help Bryzgalov.

Frankly, Mason played even better after he left, too, so it's not like he and Mason are ET and Elliot.

I'm sure Hextall will be able to find a more than adequate goalie coach.

From all I hear Elliot went on to a terrific life with a Doctorate in Humanities and fell just short of a Noble Prize... He said that he owed it all to ET being right there in his heart... Just sayin'.

All kidding aside, I have no idea what went between Jeff and the Flyers... not sold on the alleged Berube feud... but I do know that Jeff Reese a least took Mason under his wing and guided him back to his rookie form... Mason said as much and spoke of his admiration of his coach. Mase did indeed continue to play well after Reese left, but much if not all of that could be because of what he learned and worked on under Jeff's guidance. Bryz had a tremendous run that people seem to want to forget with a impressive shutout streak and had some great games and stretches. Bryz lost his job, IMO, not as much for his play as he did with his mouth and bad attitude -- may have lost it with his tea on the bench at the WC remark... or started there -- When the free buyout was handed them it was an out that they just couldn't pass up... I can't personally pin any of the Bryz bizz on Reese. Bob was another odd bird in many ways -- I'd still have to see him play a full Season to give him my seal of approval -- In the end Bob wanted no part of competing for the job and pretty much all but demanded a ticket out of town, which Homer obliged.

In any case I mentioned Reese because he was on hand when Mason was obtained, and he was his coach when Mason regained his form... It sure doesn't have to be Jeff Reese as the Coach in any reclamation project, but it has to be a Coach that can take a Goalie that lost his Mojo and work with him to regain it. The Flyers have to, for the backup and of course for Mason, find a good Goalie Coach... no matter what. The previous one (whose name I can't remember at this time) soured and seemed to not be efficient in the position... Reese was a breath of fresh air, IMO... there are other good ones there for the taking, they just have to sniff him out... just as they have to with the Backup, as I see it.

 

[GKJ]

Jeff Reese is a big deal because everyone hated Berube and were thrilled that someone in the organization went rogue. We'll never know the whole story, but we know enough of it.

 

[Breeze 44]

Karri Ramo or Alex Stalock would be my choices.

 

[DrinkFightFlyers]

Well they do have Fucale in the pipeline, and im sure Tokarski and his agent know that he will never be getting the starter job in Montreal. As far as available, im sure he could be had for a decent price.

What about going after Fucale? I doubt it would be possible because it seems to work out well for them with the age of Price and him.

 

[FLYguy3911]

What about going after Fucale? I doubt it would be possible because it seems to work out well for them with the age of Price and him.

He's not good nor NHL ready.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Goalies drafted in first two rounds over the last 10 drafts:

2014
Mason McDonald (34)
Thatcher Demko (36)
Alex Nedeljkovic (37)
Vitek Vanecek (39)
Brandon Haverson (59)

2013
Zach Fucale (36)
Tristan Jarry (44)
Philippe Desrosiers (54)
Eric Comrie (59)

2012
Andrei Vasilevskiy (19)
Malcolm Subban (24)
Oscar Dansk (31)
Anthony Stolarz (45)

2011
Magnus Hellberg (38)
John Gibson (39)
Christopher Gibson (49)

2010
Jack Campbell (11)
Mark Visentin (27)
Calvin Pickard (49)
Kent Simpson (58)

2009
Mikko Koskinen (31)
Robin Lehner (46)

2008
Chet Pickard (18)
Tom McCollum (30)
Jacob Markstrom (31)
Jake Allen (34)
Tyler Beskorowany (59)
Peter Delmas (61)

2007
Joel Gistedt (36)
Antoine Lafleur (48)
Trevor Cann (49)
Jeremy Smith (54)

2006
Jonathan Bernier (11)
Riku Helenius (15)
Semyon Varlamov (23)
Leland Irving (26)
Michal Neuvirth (34)
Jhonas Enroth (46)

2005
Carey Price (5)
Tuukka Rask (21)
Tyler Plante (32)
Jeff Frazee (38)
Ondrej Pavelec (41)
Pier-Olivier Pelletier (59)

That's 44 goalies drafted in the first two rounds over the last 10 drafts.

4 starters: Price, Rask, Bernier, Varlamov.

7 backups: Pavelec, Neuvirth, Enroth, Lehner, Cal Pickard, J. Gibson, J. Allen.

1 in Craig Button's Top 30 NHL Prospects as of Jan. 2015: Vasilevskiy (4).

How many of the 4 who aren't starters now are projected to be NHL starters? Vasilevskiy, Gibson, Allen, maybe Subban and Demko? So perhaps 5 if all goes extremely well, which is unlikely.

I think when you look at the data overall, you are talking an incredible bust rate; very very few choices where you can say the team got value out of a top 2 round pick by taking a goalie; and a very small sliver of getting an NHL starter, let alone an above-average player.

TL;DR: Don't draft a goalie in the first two rounds.

 

[Rebels57]

Goalies drafted in first two rounds over the last 10 drafts:

2014
Mason McDonald (34)
Thatcher Demko (36)
Alex Nedeljkovic (37)
Vitek Vanecek (39)
Brandon Haverson (59)

2013
Zach Fucale (36)
Tristan Jarry (44)
Philippe Desrosiers (54)
Eric Comrie (59)

2012
Andrei Vasilevskiy (19)
Malcolm Subban (24)
Oscar Dansk (31)
Anthony Stolarz (45)

2011
Magnus Hellberg (38)
John Gibson (39)
Christopher Gibson (49)

2010
Jack Campbell (11)
Mark Visentin (27)
Calvin Pickard (49)
Kent Simpson (58)

2009
Mikko Koskinen (31)
Robin Lehner (46)

2008
Chet Pickard (18)
Tom McCollum (30)
Jacob Markstrom (31)
Jake Allen (34)
Tyler Beskorowany (59)
Peter Delmas (61)

2007
Joel Gistedt (36)
Antoine Lafleur (48)
Trevor Cann (49)
Jeremy Smith (54)

2006
Jonathan Bernier (11)
Riku Helenius (15)
Semyon Varlamov (23)
Leland Irving (26)
Michal Neuvirth (34)
Jhonas Enroth (46)

2005
Carey Price (5)
Tuukka Rask (21)
Tyler Plante (32)
Jeff Frazee (38)
Ondrej Pavelec (41)
Pier-Olivier Pelletier (59)

That's 44 goalies drafted in the first two rounds over the last 10 drafts.

4 starters: Price, Rask, Bernier, Varlamov.

7 backups: Pavelec, Neuvirth, Enroth, Lehner, Cal Pickard, J. Gibson, J. Allen.

1 in Craig Button's Top 30 NHL Prospects as of Jan. 2015: Vasilevskiy (4).

How many of the 4 who aren't starters now are projected to be NHL starters? Vasilevskiy, Gibson, Allen, maybe Subban and Demko? So perhaps 5 if all goes extremely well, which is unlikely.

I think when you look at the data overall, you are talking an incredible bust rate; very very few choices where you can say the team got value out of a top 2 round pick by taking a goalie; and a very small sliver of getting an NHL starter, let alone an above-average player.

TL;DR: Don't draft a goalie in the first two rounds.

Pavelec is a starter.

Also, how many of those guys are starting for an organizations AHL team? Those teams need goalies. Preferably adequate ones. It would be a lot harder for forward and defense prospects to develop if they were constantly buried in games because they didn't have an adequate goalie to play in front of. There is SOME value in that, just not enough to draft in the top 2 rounds probably lol.

 

[Tripod]

Here is my thinking on goalies.

To get the right one...you have to be lucky AND it will take time.

So instead of taking chances on ones with 2nd and 3rd rounders every year or so, why not just use or package the picks for a further along goalie who has already gone thru a few years of development.

At least that way, you eliminate a big chunk of the bust rate and have a bigger body of work to analyze.

Like drafting a goalie in the 2nd round this year. You wait 3-7 years to see what you got. Why not trade a 2nd for a Lehner for example. Worst case, you 100% have an NHL player, but still has shown he has the upside to be a starter.

PS: Don't focus on Lehner, cap hit, etc...it was just an example of an available player who still has starter potential but is a lot further along in development.

I have also seen a few people say to use 2 picks on goalies this draft...like a 3rd and a 4th. So why not just package them and get a goalie who is older and still has upside. At least you know more of what you got. JMO.

 

[DrinkFightFlyers]

He's not good nor NHL ready.

I didn't mean for a backup this year, I just mean in general. He's only 19, I would not expect (or want) him to be a backup next season.

Goalies drafted in first two rounds over the last 10 drafts:

2014
Mason McDonald (34)
Thatcher Demko (36)
Alex Nedeljkovic (37)
Vitek Vanecek (39)
Brandon Haverson (59)

2013
Zach Fucale (36)
Tristan Jarry (44)
Philippe Desrosiers (54)
Eric Comrie (59)

2012
Andrei Vasilevskiy (19)
Malcolm Subban (24)
Oscar Dansk (31)
Anthony Stolarz (45)

2011
Magnus Hellberg (38)
John Gibson (39)
Christopher Gibson (49)

2010
Jack Campbell (11)
Mark Visentin (27)
Calvin Pickard (49)
Kent Simpson (58)

2009
Mikko Koskinen (31)
Robin Lehner (46)

2008
Chet Pickard (18)
Tom McCollum (30)
Jacob Markstrom (31)
Jake Allen (34)
Tyler Beskorowany (59)
Peter Delmas (61)

2007
Joel Gistedt (36)
Antoine Lafleur (48)
Trevor Cann (49)
Jeremy Smith (54)

2006
Jonathan Bernier (11)
Riku Helenius (15)
Semyon Varlamov (23)
Leland Irving (26)
Michal Neuvirth (34)
Jhonas Enroth (46)

2005
Carey Price (5)
Tuukka Rask (21)
Tyler Plante (32)
Jeff Frazee (38)
Ondrej Pavelec (41)
Pier-Olivier Pelletier (59)

That's 44 goalies drafted in the first two rounds over the last 10 drafts.

4 starters: Price, Rask, Bernier, Varlamov.

7 backups: Pavelec, Neuvirth, Enroth, Lehner, Cal Pickard, J. Gibson, J. Allen.

1 in Craig Button's Top 30 NHL Prospects as of Jan. 2015: Vasilevskiy (4).

How many of the 4 who aren't starters now are projected to be NHL starters? Vasilevskiy, Gibson, Allen, maybe Subban and Demko? So perhaps 5 if all goes extremely well, which is unlikely.

I think when you look at the data overall, you are talking an incredible bust rate; very very few choices where you can say the team got value out of a top 2 round pick by taking a goalie; and a very small sliver of getting an NHL starter, let alone an above-average player.

TL;DR: Don't draft a goalie in the first two rounds.

Eh, there are only 30 possible jobs as a starter in the NHL. 5/44 are currently starters. Neuvirth was at one point, and still could potentially be one again, and I think the last three you can't really count yet because those guys are still working their way up. So really you have 5/31 in the first two rounds, which probably evens out to be about the same percentage (if not better) for forwards and defenseman becoming starters. And when you think about the number of positions available for a goalie compared to a forward or defenseman, it is probably safer to take a goalie than a skater in that respect.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

I don't know. How many of those 44 goaltender picks in the first two rounds would teams do again?

Maybe 5? Price, Rask, Varlamov, Gibson, Vasilevskiy?

Bernier has been a starter, but surely he wouldn't go at 11 again.

I think the vast majority of teams who have chosen a goalie in the first two rounds have lived to regret it.

Seems to me you're just better off going the Kurt Warner / Tim Thomas route. Goalies seem almost impossible to project at a young age, and seem to peak much later. And since there are so few spots in the NHL, it reasons there are more diamonds in the rough out there to be found later.

 

[kammy]

Stolarz should be backup.

 

[Tripod]

Stolarz should be backup.

He is no where near close. He needs to play. He will be in the AHL for the next 2 years.

 

[DrinkFightFlyers]

I don't know. How many of those 44 goaltender picks in the first two rounds would teams do again?

Maybe 5? Price, Rask, Varlamov, Gibson, Vasilevskiy?

Bernier has been a starter, but surely he wouldn't go at 11 again.

I think the vast majority of teams who have chosen a goalie in the first two rounds have lived to regret it.

Seems to me you're just better off going the Kurt Warner / Tim Thomas route. Goalies seem almost impossible to project at a young age, and seem to peak much later. And since there are so few spots in the NHL, it reasons there are more diamonds in the rough out there to be found later.

You could probably say that about many (if not a majority) of the picks in the first two rounds anyway. Someone did a list of the percentages regarding playing over 200 games in the NHL and it is very low throughout the draft.

Take a look at the starting goalies in the NHL right now. You have about half that are first or second round picks. Without looking into it deeper, I'd guess that that is a better percentage than with other positions.

Rask
Varlamov
Gibson
Price
Crawford
Ward
Vasilevsky likely will be in the near future
Pavelec
Bernier
Dubnyk
Halak
Luongo
MAF
Lehtonen
Schneider
Enroth (he played more than half the games but I think we all agree he is not a starter)

Going by that list...looks like your best bet is to get a guy in the first two rounds. But again, I don't think there is a set way to find that goalie. Waiting might work, so too will drafting high. If half the starting goalies in the NHL are top 60 picks...it really doesn't make sense to say that drafting a guy in the top 60 is a bad idea.

EDIT: You can take Gibson off that list, though I think he will be a starter at some point, along with a number of other prospects waiting in the wings.

 

[Curufinwe]

Stolarz should be backup.

In the AHL.

 

[renberg]

I didn't care for allowing Eriksson to be a FA for Vancouver to sign. If he was here now, it might be time to bump him to being a back up. Vancouver and Boston have a backlog of goalies in their systems. Maybe there's a play there. Enroth or Neuvirth are possibilities. I may be in a minority but Markstrom deserves a serious look.
Like others, I'm not sold on Mason being able to make it through a season in one piece. He's good when he's healthy but...... Whoever the Flyers get, it has to be someone who could carry the nets on his back if necessary. Stolarz is years away from being in Philly. We need to get someone more advanced than him.

 

[OzFlyers]

I may be in a minority but Markstrom deserves a serious look.

Vancouver are paying nearly $10 mil on goalies with Miller and Lack. They will either move one of them and bring up Markstrom or trade Markstrom as he will not want to stay in the AHL.

Question is how much would you give up for him as a RFA as he has not been very good in his NHL starts but has a ton of potential??

 

[Richi]

Karri Ramo or Alex Stalock would be my choices.

Some options:


Ramo is probably too expensive.

Stalock at the right price would be amazing. (Utopia: 1-1.3 Mio.)

Tokarski is also a good option and he could be had at the right price IMO (below 1 Mio). And that trade shouldn´t be that expensive. Maybe Montreal is iterested in L.Schenn

Neuvirth possibly goes to an organization where he sees a possiblitly to be in a 1A/B situation.

Lehner isn´t that good and his demands will be too high.



I truly think we should give Tokarski a chance. He can´t be worse than Emery

 

[Tripod]

Some options:


Ramo is probably too expensive.

Stalock at the right price would be amazing. (Utopia: 1-1.3 Mio.)

Tokarski is also a good option and he could be had at the right price IMO (below 1 Mio). And that trade shouldn´t be that expensive. Maybe Montreal is iterested in L.Schenn

Neuvirth possibly goes to an organization where he sees a possiblitly to be in a 1A/B situation.

Lehner isn´t that good and his demands will be too high.



I truly think we should give Tokarski a chance. He can´t be worse than Emery

Montreal has no reason to move Tokarski. They too need a backup to Price and they have no replacement for him. He won't be an option.

 

[renberg]

Vancouver are paying nearly $10 mil on goalies with Miller and Lack. They will either move one of them and bring up Markstrom or trade Markstrom as he will not want to stay in the AHL.

Question is how much would you give up for him as a RFA as he has not been very good in his NHL starts but has a ton of potential??

They also have former Flyer property Joacim Eriksson who is getting close to being ready to be in the NHL. They have a log jam in the nets and someone is going to have to go or be lost to an RFA offer sheet. Markstrom is an RFA with a $1.4M deal and Ericsson is at $925K.