Back to the drawing board Chia.

[PaPaDee]

I'm not sure I understand the premise of this thread. When did Chia ever say he expected this team to be a playoff team this year? There's a lot of work left to do and he's said that repeatedly.

From my viewings, most of his acquisitions have been decent. Talbot being the only one that his disappointed me so far, but I think he can still turn it around.

 

[Perfect_Drug]

IMHO the majority of the offseason optimism was based around McDavid.

With him in the lineup, I could easily see 3-4 more wins, and slowly inching towards .500 hockey.

 

[CupofOil]

Should be obvious. if you read my posts at all you know that at this point if I was running things Krueger would've been promoted to General Manager here by now and would be a fine manager. A very intelligent guy that has since gone on to manage Premiership clubs with 10 times the payroll involved in the most lucrative league in the world. yeah that guy, that this ****tard org gave the bums rush to.

So at this point if I'm running things Krueger would've been coach here for 2- 3 years, would never have been fired. Nelson would be promoted to head coach last year, and Krueger would've been promoted to manager last season.

We'd be a lot better club on ice. The drawback is probably not getting McDavid.

Yikes, seriously?

So you would have hired a GM with no GMing experience whatsoever and promoted a head coach with no NHL head coaching experience whatsoever instead of hiring a GM who was a whisker away from winning 2 Cups and a head coach who was one of the winningest head coaches of the last decade?

It seems like your using hindsight as if the Chia/Mclellan era has been a failure. Realistically, it's only been 20 games and way WAY too soon to make a judgment on either of these guys.
However, it is fair to say that some of his acquisitions have been underwhelming thus far. Way too early for hindsight though IMO.

Sekera has been adequate, but not nearly $5 million for five years adequate. I defy anyone to explain to me again why he is any better than Petry. Honestly, I'd rather have Jeff. At least he was willing/able to skate the puck out of his own end. Sekera is a roster downgrade, brought to us by Chiarelli.

Couldn't disagree more. Sekera's biggest strength is his ability to skate the puck out of the D zone and transition to offense, he has done this on numerous occasions once he got comfortable with Mclellan's system. His biggest issue, as was the case with Petry, is trying to do too much at times leading to ugly turnovers but he has also cut down on this as well. Also, like Petry, he shoots into the Dman or wide too often for my liking.
The Sekera that we've seen the last 10 games or so is an upgrade on Petry IMO especially offensively, at least the Petry we saw the last few seasons before he was dealt to Montreal. I'd say that he's looking to be worth the contract if he keeps this up. Paid as a #2/#3 Dman and performs like one and would look a lot better if the Oilers brought in a true top pairing guy.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

When does it become apparent that perfectly effective players in other organizations turn into complete junk as soon as they put on an Oilers jersey? They could trade for Doughty and he would become Cam Barker.

 

[Replacement*]

Yikes, seriously?

So you would have hired a GM with no GMing experience whatsoever and promoted a head coach with no NHL head coaching experience whatsoever instead of hiring a GM who was a whisker away from winning 2 Cups and a head coach who was one of the winningest head coaches of the last decade?

It seems like your using hindsight as if the Chia/Mclellan era has been a failure. Realistically, it's only been 20 games and way WAY too soon to make a judgment on either of these guys.
However, it is fair to say that some of his acquisitions have been underwhelming thus far. Way too early for hindsight though IMO.



.

You know, nothing is more infuriating than the common use of the "hindsight" tag" when entirely dismissing anothers position which was made clear, very clear, on a public board. You know my expressed position, you know I'm not being disingenuous, you know I preferred a continuance of Nelson vs yet another coaching change and you know that from the outset I was calling the Eakins hire and Krueger fire a disaster for this org.

You're a better poster than this. you know my past positions better than this, and you know I have been more consistent on views than given credit for and that unfortunately I've been proved right about a lot of the above.

Sorry for going off on you but tagging anothers argument with "hindsight" and that term has been lobbed 10 times in this thread is a lazy argument on a public message board where posters past posts are an established matter of record.

I'm saying things now that I was before. I don't know what could be more clear.

As per Krueger I can't believe you think that somebody of his high intelligence, that has done wonders in a similar management position in Southampton, in the English premiership, the most competitive and highly touted league in the world, couldn't excel here.

The NHL is a footnote fishpond compared to the highly competitive world of the English Premiership.

 

[Replacement*]

You do know that GMs rely heavily on their pro scouting cause they don't get to watch every player in the league themselves right?

The Oilers pro scouting has been garbage and he didn't have access to the Boston scouting reports anymore so he went after players he saw play well himself. I wouldn't call it lazy I would call it a safe bet, especially when this year was going to be heavily about watching and evaluating the core.

Can't say all of his players he brought in have been bad, or even his fault that they are playing bad, a few were good ones that just didn't work out quite well.

.

Wait, hold the phone. As fans the only thing we CAN evaluate a GM on is what players they bring into the fold and what management/org decisions they make. Precisely the topic and focal point of this thread. Of course as he's an NHL GM I will hold Chia to task on the additions to the team that HE approved of and supported. With him talking favorable himself about all these players.

This is a pro sports discussion board in which GM's are evaluated on the bolded every minute of every day of the week. Absolutely its inperative that a GM, and especially a recently fired GM, that he is front center in being well aware of the personnel changes he makes and approves and that he will be held accountable for. That's how the ball and chain of accountability works.

 

[Dorian2]

Not sure what the problem is. Is it not my thread? Now you're telling me what I can post in my thread. jebus

Those are all from Boston fans that know Chia a whole lot better than Oiler fans do and were all totally disgusted with him. Most Bruins fans would've driven him to the airport on his way out of Boston. This is what we got, a GM not even hometown fans like.

Read the post again Replacement. I said I can't comprehend the pictures. Not "you can't post that!!" You usually make really solid arguments stating your case about something. Using these old Boston newspaper type of cartoons is totally taking away from your initial solid argument.

And what makes the Boston fans so called "experts" on this subject, besides the fact they were mad about losing. By applying what you say about the Boston fanbase to this board, I suppose all the experts on this site are correct about Petry at the time (many wanting him traded), hall, Ebs, RNH, the list goes on about who we should have traded.

Again, I don't comprehend it Replacement, considering who it is coming from.

 

[Oilslick941611]

from his first press conference and forward he warned against rasiing expectations and tried to temper them, the fan base (hfboil) became an echo chamber and most were expecting a playoff push. Chia never said this. I dont understand this thread

 

[McSuper]

Time for Chia to have an auction on Hall, RNH, Eberle, Yak, and Schultz. The Oilers aren't winning with these guys, time to sell them off while they still have value.

I would say Halls value is way up from last year . Eberle is way down .

 

[Replacement*]

Read the post again Replacement. I said I can't comprehend the pictures. Not "you can't post that!!" You usually make really solid arguments stating your case about something. Using these old Boston newspaper type of cartoons is totally taking away from your initial solid argument.

And what makes the Boston fans so called "experts" on this subject, besides the fact they were mad about losing. By applying what you say about the Boston fanbase to this board, I suppose all the experts on this site are correct about Petry at the time (many wanting him traded), hall, Ebs, RNH, the list goes on about who we should have traded.

Again, I don't comprehend it Replacement, considering who it is coming from.

The caricatures were meant to be humorous visual addition to the OP as caricatures often are. Do I expect people to take the caricatures themselves as gospel, no of course not, anymore than I would expect people to vote on the basis of political cartoons which are actually contained in every newspaper on the planet.

So I'm not sure why you don't comprehend the casual use of cartoons on a very visual message board filled up with endless gifs, emoticons, videos, etc. Anything, imo, is better than block text and easier on the eye. it was meant to add some fun to the thread. Is there a subtext message behind the cartoons? Of course there is as there often is.

In response to the rest no, Bruins fans are not the end all arbiters of who is good or not. But neither are Oiler fans who highly applauded this move by the org and claimed that the Chia addition would transform the whole team "you'll see"

I'm still waiting to see.

McDavid will make this team better, Nurse will, Klefbom too. Of course Drai will, Hall will, and Nuge, Eberle, and Yak might even. Theres lots of potential improvement to the team but from assets that were NOT moves that Chia made. Any 5 yr old would have picked McDavid. Not hard.

Nillson is playing well right now. But we'll see where that goes. The rest of the additions have been pretty mixed blessings. Hardly the handiwork of somebody that came in here described as a savior to this team and org. lol that the ONE player Chia brought here from WC is Korpikoski, a player that would be in the running as worst player in the entire conference last season.

When I heard of a trade like Gordon for Korpikoski you gotta know it evoked a whole lot of memories for me of McTamblowe times.

 

[Replacement*]

from his first press conference and forward he warned against rasiing expectations and tried to temper them, the fan base (hfboil) became an echo chamber and most were expecting a playoff push. Chia never said this. I dont understand this thread

Wait, wasn't Chia brought in here to be an effective GM, bring in some talent that would actually be impactful, and that would improve the team? I thought that was the whole point. This whole offseason I was reading that Chia had good connections, that players would want to come here for him, and that he could and was recruiting the best players available in the offseason.

if this is the best I don't want to see the worst. This team is improved, but not by these additions. This team has improved on the basis of picking McDavid, Drais rise to prominence, and Hall playing even better. Nillson right now is the only impact of note that Chia has added. The thread hilites theres been more of Chias additions that have been disappointing.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Wait, wasn't Chia brought in here to be an effective GM, bring in some talent that would actually be impactful, and that would improve the team? I thought that was the whole point. This whole offseason I was reading that Chia had good connections, that players would want to come here for him, and that he could and was recruiting the best players available in the offseason.

if this is the best I don't want to see the worst. This team is improved, but not by these additions. This team has improved on the basis of picking McDavid, Drais rise to prominence, and Hall playing even better. Nillson right now is the only impact of note that Chia has added. The thread hilites theres been more of Chias additions that have been disappointing.

I'm convinced the Oilers could bring in Toews, Kane, Doughty, and Carey Price and we'd still be a lottery team.

 

[Replacement*]

I'm convinced the Oilers could bring in Toews, Kane, Doughty, and Carey Price and we'd still be a lottery team.

Probably moot points.

We have several very good young players that we are raising, finally, in all positions. Ironically all of these other than McDavid were products of previous administration.

This team will improve, that's a given, and it may even get to playoffs next season, which I would expect from this org. But my feeling is that impetus will have more to do with players we already had in the org than what Chia has brought in. in other words a developmental eventual improvement that would have eventually occurred anyway.

 

[PaPaDee]

Probably moot points.

We have several very good young players that we are raising, finally, in all positions. Ironically all of these other than McDavid were products of previous administration.

This team will improve, that's a given, and it may even get to playoffs next season, which I would expect from this org. But my feeling is that impetus will have more to do with players we already had in the org than what Chia has brought in. in other words a developmental eventual improvement that would have eventually occurred anyway.

Interesting that you're willing to give accolades to the previous management team for finishing bottom 5 for several years in a row, yet ready to hold Chia's feet to the fire for his work being 6 months on the job.

 

[Replacement*]

Interesting that you're willing to give accolades to the previous management team for finishing bottom 5 for several years in a row, yet ready to hold Chia's feet to the fire for his work being 6 months on the job.

Oh I'm certainly not giving accolades to anybody.

The only *credit* I can give is a socialistic draft lottery system that awards its worst teams with top draft picks by way of failure. Without that we have nothing.

This team has managed to fail very well for several years and has thereby acquired a stable that probably even they can't screw up. (But judging from Chias handiwork in Boston I can't count that out either)

I'm not giving anybody credit. I will if they make effective moves that actually help this club considerably.

 

[CupofOil]

You know, nothing is more infuriating than the common use of the "hindsight" tag" when entirely dismissing anothers position which was made clear, very clear, on a public board. You know my expressed position, you know I'm not being disingenuous, you know I preferred a continuance of Nelson vs yet another coaching change and you know that from the outset I was calling the Eakins hire and Krueger fire a disaster for this org.

You're a better poster than this. you know my past positions better than this, and you know I have been more consistent on views than given credit for and that unfortunately I've been proved right about a lot of the above.

Sorry for going off on you but tagging anothers argument with "hindsight" and that term has been lobbed 10 times in this thread is a lazy argument on a public message board where posters past posts are an established matter of record.

I'm saying things now that I was before. I don't know what could be more clear.

As per Krueger I can't believe you think that somebody of his high intelligence, that has done wonders in a similar management position in Southampton, in the English premiership, the most competitive and highly touted league in the world, couldn't excel here.

The NHL is a footnote fishpond compared to the highly competitive world of the English Premiership.

Perhaps hindsight was the wrong word since you have held this stance from Day 1 of the Chia hiring, maybe too early for "I told you so" is a more apt description.

Do you really think that hiring a rookie GM over a Stanley Cup winning GM based on a 20 game sample size would have been a better move? Well obviously you do so I'll just say that I agree to disagree on that.

Not too early to say that his signings have been disappointing but way too early to say that Krueger would have done a better job as GM. Being an astute Soccer GM doesn't equate to being a successful NHL GM.

I personally think a lot on this forum overrate his coaching ability similar to Nelson last season. Teams that produced more offense but were awful 5 on 5, lacked structure and were very porous defensively. Maybe Krueger would have produced better results if given more rope but I think the job he did wasn't as good as he was given credit for. That was a team riped for a major plummeting down the standings and would have been in MacKinnonland I'm sure if the season had been a full 82. There was a lot of relief on this forum when he was let go because the team was so god awful down the stretch. In fairness to you, I think you were one of the few who wanted him to be retained.

 

[Replacement*]

Perhaps hindsight was the wrong word since you have held this stance from Day 1 of the Chia hiring, maybe too early for "I told you so" is a more apt description.

Do you really think that hiring a rookie GM over a Stanley Cup winning GM based on a 20 game sample size would have been a better move? Well obviously you do so I'll just say that I agree to disagree on that.

Not too early to say that his signings have been disappointing but way too early to say that Krueger would have done a better job as GM. Being an astute Soccer GM doesn't equate to being a successful NHL GM.

I personally think a lot on this forum overrate his coaching ability similar to Nelson last season. Teams that produced more offense but were awful 5 on 5, lacked structure and were very porous defensively. Maybe Krueger would have produced better results if given more rope but I think the job he did wasn't as good as he was given credit for. That was a team riped for a major plummeting down the standings and would have been in MacKinnonland I'm sure if the season had been a full 82. There was a lot of relief on this forum when he was let go because the team was so god awful down the stretch. In fairness to you, I think you were one of the few who wanted him to be retained.

Thanks for responding and clarifying. You are correct that hindsight was the wrong word to use and I got frustrated with hearing that in so many of the replies. Because clearly when these were my takes in the offseason, and previous seasons its pretty clear hindsight is not whats involved.

lack of faith in management? perhaps.

This thread was only ever intended to be a report card type thing denoting where the Chia hires are now. Its intended to be revisited at later intervals.

tbh I don't buy or accept that this year was just a blind mulligan for Chia to work with as some here are now saying. I view that as yet another convenient cop out by this org which is seemingly always waiting for something.. I think this team and collection of players on the ice desperately need some success now and I see that etched on Taylor Hall and McDavids face anytime I see them. This constant losing is really hard for Hall to take. Its almost impossible not to be seeing that.

Its absolutely essential imo that improvements be seen, and hope be seen, for this club on the ice this year. not sure how long these players can wait or if in some cases its already a little too late.

 

[PaPaDee]

Oh I'm certainly not giving accolades to anybody.

The only *credit* I can give is a socialistic draft lottery system that awards its worst teams with top draft picks by way of failure. Without that we have nothing.

This team has managed to fail very well for several years and has thereby acquired a stable that probably even they can't screw up. (But judging from Chias handiwork in Boston I can't count that out either)

I'm not giving anybody credit. I will if they make effective moves that actually help this club considerably.

Outside of getting NHL players drafted in the first round, we've actually done a very poor job of drafting & developing players. Outside of our 1st round picks, we have very little depth, and very little in the way of defensive depth in our system.

I'm of the mind set that this organization has a long way to go before we get back to respectability in the NHL. Chia has a big task ahead of him and it won't be as simple as just sitting back on the players that we have.

 

[Weitz]

I sometimes wonder if people on this board know that we are in last place. As in, there are no teams in the league that are worse than us.

 

[Frank the Tank]

I sometimes wonder if people on this board know that we are in last place. As in, there are no teams in the league that are worse than us.

I sometimes wonder if people on this board realize that the team finished 28th last year, is 9 years deep into losing most of their games, and is 1/4 through the season with a new management structure (and without McDavid for the last dozen or so games). Progress forward takes time. To expect different was to set oneself up for disappointment.

 

[Replacement*]

Outside of getting NHL players drafted in the first round, we've actually done a very poor job of drafting & developing players. Outside of our 1st round picks, we have very little depth, and very little in the way of defensive depth in our system.

I'm of the mind set that this organization has a long way to go before we get back to respectability in the NHL. Chia has a big task ahead of him and it won't be as simple as just sitting back on the players that we have.

I don't disagree other than that the will of McDavid, Hall, Drai, Klef, Nurse, looks pretty determined. They could use more help.

 

[Replacement*]

I sometimes wonder if people on this board realize that the team finished 28th last year, is 9 years deep into losing most of their games, and is 1/4 through the season with a new management structure (and without McDavid for the last dozen or so games). Progress forward takes time. To expect different was to set oneself up for disappointment.

heh, heh. Its hard, real hard, after all these years not to be impatient.

I wish I could train myself not to care how this team does. That would be easier.

 

[Dorian2]

The caricatures were meant to be humorous visual addition to the OP as caricatures often are. Do I expect people to take the caricatures themselves as gospel, no of course not, anymore than I would expect people to vote on the basis of political cartoons which are actually contained in every newspaper on the planet.

So I'm not sure why you don't comprehend the casual use of cartoons on a very visual message board filled up with endless gifs, emoticons, videos, etc. Anything, imo, is better than block text and easier on the eye. it was meant to add some fun to the thread. Is there a subtext message behind the cartoons? Of course there is as there often is.

In response to the rest no, Bruins fans are not the end all arbiters of who is good or not. But neither are Oiler fans who highly applauded this move by the org and claimed that the Chia addition would transform the whole team "you'll see"

I'm still waiting to see.

McDavid will make this team better, Nurse will, Klefbom too. Of course Drai will, Hall will, and Nuge, Eberle, and Yak might even. There's lots of potential improvement to the team but from assets that were NOT moves that Chia made. Any 5 yr old would have picked McDavid. Not hard.

Nillson is playing well right now. But we'll see where that goes. The rest of the additions have been pretty mixed blessings. Hardly the handiwork of somebody that came in here described as a savior to this team and org. lol that the ONE player Chia brought here from WC is Korpikoski, a player that would be in the running as worst player in the entire conference last season.

When I heard of a trade like Gordon for Korpikoski you gotta know it evoked a whole lot of memories for me of McTamblowe times.

Well, it took a bit of rabble rousing on my part. But I finally got a response that would typically be expected from you. Took you long enough.

Now for a question. Would you not consider McLellan part of Chia's acquisitions so far? He seems to be a pretty solid addition here. Or was that a Nicholson deal?

Also, I consider the way Chia has handled the Reinhart, Nurse and Drai situations in the AHL to the NHL, along with Davidson, very solid GM moves. Not to mention the Scrivs and Niki stuff. The typical argument is over player acquisition, one in which I disagree with you as far as Korpikovski(sp?) is concerned. He's another player that was injured at the beginning of the year, so we haven't had a good read on his merits yet. He seems to be getting better every game he plays though. Other arguments about some of his additions I have no choice but to agree with. There were definitely a couple of boners thrown in there......no pun intended.

 

[PaPaDee]

I sometimes wonder if people on this board realize that the team finished 28th last year, is 9 years deep into losing most of their games, and is 1/4 through the season with a new management structure (and without McDavid for the last dozen or so games). Progress forward takes time. To expect different was to set oneself up for disappointment.

I also wonder if people realize that we wasted 2 years of development playing under Eakins. Eakins undid any progress we had made, and set us back, with the only positives being acquiring Draisaitl and McDavid.

2015-16 Season: -13 goal differential (pro-rates to -44)
2014-15 Season: -83 goal differential
2013-14 Season: -68 goal differential
2012-13 Season: -8 goal differential (pro-rates to -14)
2011-12 Season: -25 goal differential
2010-11 Season: -69 goal differential
2009-10 Season: -72 goal differential

 

[bombers15]

We're bad and we should feel bad.

That said, I have more confidence with Chia at the helm than MacT. A lot more. A world more. There have been improvements already (even though the record doesn't bear this out), and I think there will be more. At least we don't have Dumb and Dumber trying to drive the ship anymore.