Babcock

[Ratboy]

no wonder that stacked detroit team after reaching the cup finals twice didn't get out of the 2nd round of playoffs.....

what a ****ing joke. no matter how many trips like the arizona trip to "talk" to matthews this coach takes to speak to his players if he is not going to adapt to modern NHL won't be long till matthews is requesting a trade and tavares too

Babs goes before they do.

 

[Mr Hockey]

Every coach lobbies to a certain degree to keep players they like in town. Babcock keeps a very keen sight on who he lobbies for. He's more interested in promoting his brand rather than maximizing the team's potential. One really has to listen in on what Polak's quote really means, and he's not the only player who's said these things about Babcock.

what do you mean by "He's more interested in promoting his brand rather than maximizing the team's potential?"

 

[PromisedLand]

Every coach lobbies to a certain degree to keep players they like in town. Babcock keeps a very keen sight on who he lobbies for. He's more interested in promoting his brand rather then maximizing the team's potential. One really has to listen in on what Polak's quote really means, and he's not the only player who's said these things about Babcock.

whats the point of having a high skilled roster if the coach is not going to maximize the potential of that roster?

or if the coach doesn't have the ability to coach to players' strengths and is only good enough to have players play a certain style; and if they can't; coach cannot adapt with the roster assembled.

Imagine Sullivan playing the "Gud Pro" BS with Malkin, Crosby, Kessel and co.

 

[hector morrison]

Can you post your 4 lines, I'm curious?

Basically, just get Zach oughta the top 6! Replace him with someone who can take a pass,shoot or if a net presence is needed,someone with hands .Let him do his thing on the 3rd or 4th line. If trading Willy,then perhaps another decent winger instead of a Dman is an option.

 

[Mr Hockey]

whats the point of having a high skilled roster if the coach is not going to maximize the potential of that roster?

or if the coach doesn't have the ability to coach to players' strengths and is only good enough to have players play a certain style; and if they can't; coach cannot adapt with the roster assembled.

Imagine Sullivan playing the "Gud Pro" BS with Malkin, Crosby, Kessel and co.

Pens lines ...

CARL.HAGELIN

EVGENI.MALKIN

PHIL.KESSEL

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

DOMINIK.SIMON

JAKE.GUENTZEL

SIDNEY.CROSBY

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[hector morrison]

When the line you're covering is Pastrnak-Bergeron-Marchand, if you don't have a player like those three in terms of grit and skill, you've got to attempt to balance out what skill and grit you have. Tavares is a combination of grit and skill...Can you imagine if he signed in Boston!? Obviously, Marner is all skill and "questionable" grit. So, the options are...until we reasonably arrive at Hyman. That's no faux pas on the part of the coach, that's addressing an imbalance of power in our lineup to maximize efficiency against a better forward group iced against us last night.

The Bruins' first line isn't only a skill line. They're a gritty, pay the price, top three top first line in the league. We are what we are at the moment, and placing Marleau on Tavares' other side, or Kapanen, wasn't going to have the ideal effect that but for this or that move (with last night's line up) wished for...With Matthews and Nylander in the lineup, we present a top six of such skill saturation that the Bruins would have be the ones struggling to offset the obvious disparity.

Marners 'grit isn't questionable at all. And his skill level is worth any deficiencies one might find in his game. Jt is a good match for Bergeron, Hyman is/was the weak link last night. Basically useless as far as creating or capitalizing on any scoring opportunities. He made it obvious that the 'strategy' of Babs having one plugger with two decent offensive weapons didn't work. Swap out Hyman for Pasta and tell me the results .

 

[dimi78]

This is what pisses me off about babcock not only does his love of plugs overshadow everything

last night (and in Game 7) when the Leafs are down 3 goals here is what happened

• In the 2nd period Leafs are down 3 goals 10 mins into the 2nd period; babcock remains status-quo with his lines doesn't do anything to change it up. Leafs score a goal late in the second period

• Leafs start the third down 2 goals; then Leafs get scored on again are trailing the game babcock still does not change his lines remains status-quo

• 13 mins into the third period, he makes "one" change. Flips Kapenen and Marner; while still running his PLUGS like hyman on JT line. Hyman continues to kill any offensive momentum but keeps getting rewarded with ice-time. AND Leafs are still trailing in the game;

Quite frankly it is arrogance and in-ability to make any in game adjustments.

Love how your not stating how the skill guys had the opportunities to score but didn't. JT could have had 5 goals in that game alone based on the work Hyman does to free both Marner and JT up to be in the scoring positions but yup your correct it's Babcock's fault why they lost last night.

If your going to make post like this paint the full picture. They're called lines for reason everybody does something to have successful lines. Agree disagree is irrelative when you lack the hockey IQ to understand what the coach is doing because the view point will almost always be wrong.

Babcock isn't alone with how he makes lines up. Remember Bowman? He was the first to construct his lines with 2 skill guys and grinder/plug that you guys like to call it.... Washington just won the cup with a plug planted on Ovies line and was early rounds knock outs when he played with 2 other skilled guys loading up lines.

Boston is a 1 line team. There's only so far they will go with that and are pretenders constructed like that.

What makes Babcock such a good coach is that he sees worth in players that you guys call plugs. He's not about the star player but the whole damn team. The standard is work ethic that skilled guys need to be provoked a lot of the times to put the work in before the skill. You might not get it but it's a damn fact that for this team to get to where it wants to go it wont happen until the skill guys are as consistent in the work department as Hyman is. That's why he won't just change the lines. The skill guys have to put there big boy pants and lead the work department needed to craw back in games and if they don't it's on them not the coach. The players are playing not the coach.

It's very simple for Hyman to be dropped down the line up. Find somebody who out works him that has the skilled tag to go with it. Not so deep are we on this regard. Truth be told we could use another Hyman type or 2 for every freaking line.

 

[Shad]

someone actually made a meme about you guys lol

The Dunning-Kruger chair

 

[PromisedLand]

Love how your not stating how the skill guys had the opportunities to score but didn't. JT could have had 5 goals in that game alone based on the work Hyman does to free both Marner and JT up to be in the scoring positions but yup your correct it's Babcock's fault why they lost last night.

If your going to make post like this paint the full picture. They're called lines for reason everybody does something to have successful lines. Agree disagree is irrelative when you lack the hockey IQ to understand what the coach is doing because the view point will almost always be wrong.

Babcock isn't alone with how he makes lines up. Remember Bowman? He was the first to construct his lines with 2 skill guys and grinder/plug that you guys like to call it.... Washington just won the cup with a plug planted on Ovies line and was early rounds knock outs when he played with 2 other skilled guys loading up lines.

Boston is a 1 line team. There's only so far they will go with that and are pretenders constructed like that.

What makes Babcock such a good coach is that he sees worth in players that you guys call plugs. He's not about the star player but the whole damn team. The standard is work ethic that skilled guys need to be provoked a lot of the times to put the work in before the skill. You might not get it but it's a damn fact that for this team to get to where it wants to go it wont happen until the skill guys are as consistent in the work department as Hyman is. That's why he won't just change the lines. The skill guys have to put there big boy pants and lead the work department needed to craw back in games and if they don't it's on them not the coach. The players are playing not the coach.

It's very simple for Hyman to be dropped down the line up. Find somebody who out works him that has the skilled tag to go with it. Not so deep are we on this regard. Truth be told we could use another Hyman type or 2 for every freaking line.

the difference is that the so called "plug" planted on the capitals' line did not deter but helped their skilled forwards make plays and score.

hyman does the opposite. tell me one play where hyman created time and space or got the puck for JT/Marner last night. One f***ing play

Babcock refusing to get rid of hyman on the JT line is f***ing STUPID. absolutely f***ING STUPID

 

[Knightnight]

the difference is that the so called "plug" planted on the capitals' line did not deter but helped their skilled forwards make plays and score.

hyman does the opposite. tell me one play where hyman created time and space or got the puck for JT/Marner last night. One ****ing play

Babcock refusing to get rid of hyman on the JT line is ****ing STUPID. absolutely ****ING STUPID

Marner has 1 secondary assist> that should tell you enough.

 

[IPS]

Marner has 1 secondary assist> that should tell you enough.

Hyman has 1 f***ing goal in 17 games being glued to the two best playmakers on our team. And his solitary goal was a complete fluke.

 

[frizzer1]

Babs goes before they do.

We know how frustrated Matthews was last year. Kypreos said that babcock had lost matthews and that EVENTUALLY led to "the talk" and the end of Hyman on his line.
I can imagine how frustated marner and tavares must be also. Last night alone there were 2 times Hyman had the puck with Marner open and he just threw it to no one.
It stands to reason that when enough of the players have had enough of babcock he will be fired.
But that won't happen at least until the end of this year. ( and they will not win a cup with this coach which would have saved him)
They won't ask for a trade or be traded..the coach goes first.
This all,of course depends on Dubas/Shanahan.....leafs' ownership....money...etc..so who knows?

 

[frizzer1]

Hyman has 1 ****ing goal in 17 games being glued to the two best playmakers on our team. And his solitary goal was a complete fluke.

Matthews's assists lagged behind his goal totals and part of the reason was that Hyman cannot produce any goals.
Marner has been great but it is that much harder to garner assists when Hyman is on the line messing up chances.

 

[PromisedLand]

Marner has 1 secondary assist> that should tell you enough.

in 17 games played (even strength)

Hyman:
G: 0
1A: 2
P: 7

Marner:
G: 4
1A:10
P: 14

Tavares:
G:8
1A:4
P:14

Hyman f***ing SUCKS!

 

[frizzer1]

Hyman has 1 ****ing goal in 17 games being glued to the two best playmakers on our team. And his solitary goal was a complete fluke.

And it gets worse.
Hyman is playing with 2 offensively gifted players and can't get them the puck to do what they can do....
Any time he touches the puck the play stops and what you have is wasted time and wasted effort.
I read on another forum that Hyman puts the puck on a tee for Tavares/Marner.
That guy is as delusional as babcock...they see what they want to see.
Facts don't matter.

 

[hector morrison]

Love how your not stating how the skill guys had the opportunities to score but didn't. JT could have had 5 goals in that game alone based on the work Hyman does to free both Marner and JT up to be in the scoring positions but yup your correct it's Babcock's fault why they lost last night.

If your going to make post like this paint the full picture. They're called lines for reason everybody does something to have successful lines. Agree disagree is irrelative when you lack the hockey IQ to understand what the coach is doing because the view point will almost always be wrong.

Babcock isn't alone with how he makes lines up. Remember Bowman? He was the first to construct his lines with 2 skill guys and grinder/plug that you guys like to call it.... Washington just won the cup with a plug planted on Ovies line and was early rounds knock outs when he played with 2 other skilled guys loading up lines.

Boston is a 1 line team. There's only so far they will go with that and are pretenders constructed like that.

What makes Babcock such a good coach is that he sees worth in players that you guys call plugs. He's not about the star player but the whole damn team. The standard is work ethic that skilled guys need to be provoked a lot of the times to put the work in before the skill. You might not get it but it's a damn fact that for this team to get to where it wants to go it wont happen until the skill guys are as consistent in the work department as Hyman is. That's why he won't just change the lines. The skill guys have to put there big boy pants and lead the work department needed to craw back in games and if they don't it's on them not the coach. The players are playing not the coach.

It's very simple for Hyman to be dropped down the line up. Find somebody who out works him that has the skilled tag to go with it. Not so deep are we on this regard. Truth be told we could use another Hyman type or 2 for every freaking line.

Based on 'the work Hyman did"?You can't be serious.

 

[ITM]

Marners 'grit isn't questionable at all. And his skill level is worth any deficiencies one might find in his game. Jt is a good match for Bergeron, Hyman is/was the weak link last night. Basically useless as far as creating or capitalizing on any scoring opportunities. He made it obvious that the 'strategy' of Babs having one plugger with two decent offensive weapons didn't work. Swap out Hyman for Pasta and tell me the results .

Well, we have a very different definition of grit then. Questioning Marner's grit doesn't question Marner's value. In fact the conclusion of my reply ended in noting our strength, that icing our full top six presents difficulties of a different sort (i.e. with skill) to clubs.

You describe the problem without providing a suggestion of solution from available personnel. And as far as describing Hyman to be useless, that's preference against fact. Hyman is a serviceable player and does provide value as a bottom piece. And the strategy isn't to insert a plugger at the expense of a better player. When Babcock coaches the national team (which he most certainly has some say as to it's selection of personnel) does he insist that a comparable to Zach Hyman be selected for Team Canada? Of course not. His access to resources changes.

Given that we have Nylander out and Matthews out, that measurably alters the effect he can impose as a coach with a top six that includes Matthews, Tavares, Marner, Nylander, Kapanen and Marleau. If Babcock can ice a first line of Kapanen-Matthews-Nylander, it doesn't matter if Boston starts or doesn't start a game with Pastrnak-Bergeron-Marchand because the second line is Marleau-Tavares-Marner. But when Nylander and Matthews aren't available, the rest of the club shoulders the burden, as unappealing as that sounds to have Freddie Gauthier, Josh Leivo and Zach Hyman shoulder that difference.

Swapping out Pastrnak for Hyman as an indicator for Babcock's decisions?

How about we reserve judgement until Toronto ices it's full squad against Boston's and then determine whether Babcock's game in game out decisions haven't achieved their purpose? Namely to improve our club in a measurable fashion, season over season. And has Babcock achieved that? Yep. The snapshots might not all be award winners, but the album is looking better and better the longer he's the coach of the Toronto Maple Leafs.

 

[Ratboy]

in 17 games played (even strength)

Hyman:
G: 0
1A: 2
P: 7

Marner:
G: 4
1A:10
P: 14

Tavares:
G:8
1A:4
P:14

Hyman ****ing SUCKS!

This is f***ing ridiculous.

 

[PromisedLand]

This is ****ing ridiculous.

it is pretty obvious what babcock is trying to do putting hyman on PP. he is trying to inflate hyman's numbers to justify playing hyman in the top 6

and yes

this is f***ing ridiculous

 

[hector morrison]

Well, we have a very different definition of grit then. Questioning Marner's grit doesn't question Marner's value. In fact the conclusion of my reply ended in noting our strength, that icing our full top six presents difficulties of a different sort (i.e. with skill) to clubs.

You describe the problem without providing a suggestion of solution from available personnel. And as far as describing Hyman to be useless, that's preference against fact. Hyman is a serviceable player and does provide value as a bottom piece. And the strategy isn't to insert a plugger at the expense of a better player. When Babcock coaches the national team (which he most certainly has some say as to it's selection of personnel) does he insist that a comparable to Zach Hyman be selected for Team Canada? Of course not. His access to resources changes.

Given that we have Nylander out and Matthews out, that measurably alters the effect he can impose as a coach with a top six that includes Matthews, Tavares, Marner, Nylander, Kapanen and Marleau. If Babcock can ice a first line of Kapanen-Matthews-Nylander, it doesn't matter if Boston starts or doesn't start a game with Pastrnak-Bergeron-Marchand because the second line is Marleau-Tavares-Marner. But when Nylander and Matthews aren't available, the rest of the club shoulders the burden, as unappealing as that sounds to have Freddie Gauthier, Josh Leivo and Zach Hyman shoulder that difference.

Swapping out Pastrnak for Hyman as an indicator for Babcock's decisions?

How about we reserve judgement until Toronto ices it's full squad against Boston's and then determine whether Babcock's game in game out decisions haven't achieved their purpose? Namely to improve our club in a measurable fashion, season over season. And has Babcock achieved that? Yep. The snapshots might not all be award winners, but the album is looking better and better the longer he's the coach of the Toronto Maple Leafs.

Well, A full line-up would make for a more competitive game against the Bruins.To be sure!.I hope,anyway. My criticism is that Babs seems to be be trying to get apple juice from an orange. He can't teach Marner anything. Not a thing.He has admitted that he has never coached anyone like him. Enter JT ,well,finally Marner gets someone worthy of his talent to play with. Hyman ,gets pulled off Austons line for reasons left to speculation(if it was so successful ,why change it?) and gets to play with two other offensive gems. He must pinch himself on a regular basis,just to make sure it isn't a dream! How many games does Hyman have to log without scoring some goals before it becomes too embarrassing even for Babs?

 

[hector morrison]

Well, A full line-up would make for a more competitive game against the Bruins.To be sure!.I hope,anyway. My criticism is that Babs seems to be be trying to get apple juice from an orange. He can't teach Marner anything. Not a thing.He has admitted that he has never coached anyone like him. Enter JT ,well,finally Marner gets someone worthy of his talent to play with. Hyman ,gets pulled off Austons line for reasons left to speculation(if it was so successful ,why change it?) and gets to play with two other offensive gems. He must pinch himself on a regular basis,just to make sure it isn't a dream! How many games does Hyman have to log without scoring some goals before it becomes too embarrassing even for Babs?

about Kappy
I meant to address the "solution' to Hymans replacement. How about Kappy,I mean for a few games at least!

 

[socko]

Worse than the top line for Hyman, is the PP. At least you can argue he fetches the puck on the top line but what the hell does he do on the PP? Babs is trying to use him as a net front presence but the guy can't redirect any pucks out of the air because he doesn't have the hand eye coordination. He can't roof a rebound garbage goal either. He's completely useless out there on the PP.

 

[Mr Hockey]

it is pretty obvious what babcock is trying to do putting hyman on PP. he is trying to inflate hyman's numbers to justify playing hyman in the top 6

and yes

this is ****ing ridiculous

You're trolling right, you're not that dumb? lol

 

[PromisedLand]

You're trolling right, you're not that dumb? lol

now stand in front of a mirror and repeat your post verbatim

 

[IPS]

Anyone who wants a funny read from a Red Wings fan about Babcock prior to him leaving Detroit. I remember reading this shortly before Babcock signed with Toronto.

Edit: nvm, might get infracted for posting it due to content.