Babcock vs Blashill

[Mijatovic]

Babcock left 5 seasons ago. Are people still not over it?

Did he? Looks like same old shit since Blash took over.

 

[TheOtherOne]

1. Allows GMs to justify their case to ownership the team isn't really doing that bad. Look we are a '500' team. Conveniently with inflation 560 is the new 500.

Some random nobody on a forum understands that "560 is the new 500" but meanwhile the owner of a hockey team is like "durrr 500 you say? sounds good to me! i don't know anything about the current state of the league."

 

[ChrisReevesLegs]

Red Wings fans circa 2013: "Babs is the best coach in the GD league"

Red Wings fans circa 2015: "Well ackchytually he's completely overrated and his voice is super stale and the players hate him, and I'm actually happy one of the best the coaches in the league is ditching us for our biggest rival"

*proceed to suck under Blash*

Cope harder

 

[newfy]

It was always funny to read Leaf's posts about Babcock after their playoff exits. Lots of the same complaints we made about him when he was with the Wings. Loves his grinders. Limits minutes of the big guys even when it doesn't make much sense. *Insists* on not playing the hell out of his top guys on the PP. No Ovechkin out for 2 minutes for him.

Its crazy watching the Leafs how much Babcock is just stuck in his ways. Guys like Hyman and Marleau playing pretty big minutes the last few years remind me of his Glendening/Cleary man crushes. Hainsey was kinda the same way as well.

Red Wings fans circa 2013: "Babs is the best coach in the GD league"

Red Wings fans circa 2015: "Well ackchytually he's completely overrated and his voice is super stale and the players hate him, and I'm actually happy one of the best the coaches in the league is ditching us for our biggest rival"

*proceed to suck under Blash*

Cope harder

I think a lot of wings fans thought he was a great coach because he was getting trash rosters into the playoffs compared to what wings fans were used to. But then Blashill turned around and did just as well with a worse roster and people clued in. We also got to watch stacked teams win multiple cups at that point and it became obvious Babcock underachieved in his time in Detroit given the roster he had. Nothing coping about it, it just became obvious his roster was really good and thats why he did well.

 

[ChrisReevesLegs]

Its crazy watching the Leafs how much Babcock is just stuck in his ways. Guys like Hyman and Marleau playing pretty big minutes the last few years remind me of his Glendening/Cleary man crushes. Hainsey was kinda the same way as well.



I think a lot of wings fans thought he was a great coach because he was getting trash rosters into the playoffs compared to what wings fans were used to. But then Blashill turned around and did just as well with a worse roster and people clued in. We also got to watch stacked teams win multiple cups at that point and it became obvious Babcock underachieved in his time in Detroit given the roster he had. Nothing coping about it, it just became obvious his roster was really good and thats why he did well.

80-90% of coaching at a pro level is babysitting and putting yourself in positions to win. Bowman did this, and Babs is doing this.

Blash is a product of his team as much as Babs is. Fans over-analyze and the differences between them in terms of ability are probably negligible.

But I think it's hilarious to watch the narrative spinning and justifying. And the coping on display from Babs switching teams that still goes on today reeks of an underlying nagging feeling of being butt hurt by it all. From best coach in league to completely overrated. Happens to to coincide with him switching from Detroit to Toronto... hmmmmm. It happened 4-5 seasons ago. Get over it.

So keep telling yourself Babs is overrated. Keep telling yourself Blash is underrated. I'm sure if they switched positions tomorrow the narrative would reverse quickly. It's all so tiresome.

 

[newfy]

80-90% of coaching at a pro level is babysitting and putting yourself in positions to win. Bowman did this, and Babs is doing this.

Blash is a product of his team as much as Babs is. Fans over-analyze and the differences between them in terms of ability are probably negligible.

But I think it's hilarious to watch the narrative spinning and justifying. And the coping on display from Babs switching teams that still goes on today reeks of an underlying nagging feeling of being butt hurt by it all. From best coach in league to completely overrated. Happens to to coincide with him switching from Detroit to Toronto... hmmmmm.

So keep telling yourself Babs is overrated. Keep telling yourself Blash is underrated. I'm sure if they switched positions tomorrow the narrative would reverse quickly. It's all so tiresome.

I dont disagree that a lot of coaches are products of their teams but the fact that youre saying the difference between them in ability is negligible kinda proves my point. Babcock gets talked about as the best coach in the league while Blashill is considered one of the the worst. I also think its hilarious that youre a wings fan and think people here still loved Babcock by 2013.

You didnt join here until 2018 so maybe youre just mixing up your friends who are casual fans with people on this board. I dont think you would find anyone considering Babcock the best by 2013, but once Blashill showed he could bring a worse team to similar results everyone was down on Babcock. People started turning on Babcockwell ebfore he left and youre in la la land if you dont remember that. Now Leaf fans who have had him for 5 years are starting to turn on him as well.

 

[MBH]

So keep telling yourself Babs is overrated. Keep telling yourself Blash is underrated. I'm sure if they switched positions tomorrow the narrative would reverse quickly. It's all so tiresome.

LOL. Lots of Wings fans, a minority, admittedly, wanted him gone a long time ago.
Blashill has all of Babcock's idiotic lines and player usage, and none of the gameplan/structure.

Sometime around 2009 or so, both Babcock and Holland started doubling down on all their worst traits.
Babcock just had to separate Datsyuk and Zetterberg, for example. Just had to.
Even though he could have gone Franzen-Flip-Hossa, he had to separate the best combination in the NHL. A combination that won him the cup in 08.
He had to play guys like Cleary and Abdelkader and Helm in positions where they didn't belong. etc etc etc.
And he just got more and more stubborn about his stupid tendencies.

 

[ShelbyZ]

I still remember when Red Wings fans wanted Babcock gone because they were afraid another NHL team would sign Blashill. Then if you strayed from the hype and suggested anyone other than Blashill replace Babcock, you got roasted. LOL.

 

[MBH]

On the positive side, at least we got Lane Zablocki for allowing Babcock to negotiate with Toronto .
I would have loved for Holland to have fired Babcock when Babcock wouldn't negotiate. He wanted Babcock to stay. That's the crazy thing. He thought that was good for the Red Wings.

 

[ChrisReevesLegs]

I dont disagree that a lot of coaches are products of their teams but the fact that youre saying the difference between them in ability is negligible kinda proves my point. Babcock gets talked about as the best coach in the league while Blashill is considered one of the the worst. I also think its hilarious that youre a wings fan and think people here still loved Babcock by 2013.

You didnt join here until 2018 so maybe youre just mixing up your friends who are casual fans with people on this board. I dont think you would find anyone considering Babcock the best by 2013, but once Blashill showed he could bring a worse team to similar results everyone was down on Babcock. People started turning on Babcockwell ebfore he left and youre in la la land if you dont remember that. Now Leaf fans who have had him for 5 years are starting to turn on him as well.

On the contrary the bolded speaks to my point. I'm aware of what the general populous of drooling fans thought of Babs towards the down swing of the team. If you agree with me that the differences are negligible and that they are products of their teams however, you'll agree that these fans are just coping and coach blaming. There you go.

Appreciate the shots at my character instead of my argument cause I'm "new" on this board. But I'm well aware of the sentiment towards Babs in 2013 and prior. Maybe I should've picked 2011, whatever, my argument remains the same. The shift from Babs is best to Babs needs to go is comical. Babs is a fine coach, Blash is a fine coach, fans are just coping and casting blame bc their roster sucks and Babs ditched us. The fact that this is still being discussed 4-5 years later is the most telling part.

 

[ChrisReevesLegs]

LOL. Lots of Wings fans, a minority, admittedly, wanted him gone a long time ago.
Blashill has all of Babcock's idiotic lines and player usage, and none of the gameplan/structure.

Sometime around 2009 or so, both Babcock and Holland started doubling down on all their worst traits.
Babcock just had to separate Datsyuk and Zetterberg, for example. Just had to.
Even though he could have gone Franzen-Flip-Hossa, he had to separate the best combination in the NHL. A combination that won him the cup in 08.
He had to play guys like Cleary and Abdelkader and Helm in positions where they didn't belong. etc etc etc.
And he just got more and more stubborn about his stupid tendencies.

Didn't Z and Dats statistically score more when separated over their careers than when together? I vaguely remember seeing those numbers back when but not gonna spend the next hour digging that up.

 

[saska sault]

Babcock = under performing with line up's filled with future Hall of fame players and perrenial all stars.. Brought us a cup which I'm grateful for. His time was up.

Blashill = dealing with hot garbage, broken down players, old boys clubs contract that he can't personally bury in the minors as the coach and forced to develop players with almost no skill to support them... He's doing fine. Next year if we do not see ourselves improving and trending towards a wild card push in the near future. Yzerman makes a move, right before even more money comes off the books and he can spend in free agency as he pleases.

 

[newfy]

Maybe I should've picked 2011, /QUOTE]

This is all that needs to be said. If you knew people were turning on Babs gradually over his last few years here and not that it was just an overnight thing when he went to Toronto than what are you even arguing? You say people all thought he was the best til he went to Toronto and that people would change their opinions overnight and then you say you shoulda said more like 2011. 2 or 3 seasons is a long time for opinions to change in pro sports.

Youre literally complaining that fans turned on him over night and only did it cause theyre butt hurt he went to Toronto and then 2 posts later you said there was a turning on him over a couple seasons. Do you think people turned on Dan Cleary overnight too?

 

[MBH]

Didn't Z and Dats statistically score more when separated over their careers than when together? I vaguely remember seeing those numbers back when but not gonna spend the next hour digging that up.

Doubt it
from 07-08 to 9-10.
Datsyuk with Z; 62.4CF vs 58.9CF
2.64 points/60 vs 2.44 overall (so probably around 2.1 or 2.2 without)

 

[MBH]

On the contrary the bolded speaks to my point. I'm aware of what the general populous of drooling fans thought of Babs towards the down swing of the team. If you agree with me that the differences are negligible and that they are products of their teams however, you'll agree that these fans are just coping and coach blaming. There you go.

Appreciate the shots at my character instead of my argument cause I'm "new" on this board. But I'm well aware of the sentiment towards Babs in 2013 and prior. Maybe I should've picked 2011, whatever, my argument remains the same. The shift from Babs is best to Babs needs to go is comical. Babs is a fine coach, Blash is a fine coach, fans are just coping and casting blame bc their roster sucks and Babs ditched us. The fact that this is still being discussed 4-5 years later is the most telling part.

Personal shots are how people maintain their superiority!

Coaches lose their effectiveness over time.
Babcock lost his.
A lot of people will tell you that Babcock performed poorly from 09-13.

 

[ChrisReevesLegs]

Newfy...

Why did you write your response inside the quote box? I don't even use this website on a regular basis and I know how this works. Maybe after you get to 10,000 messages... lol

I think you're vastly over exaggerating the amount of folks who thought Babs was the problem in 2013. But I'll acknowledge that those who moaned and griped about him existed. When he left for Toronto literally almost everyone jumped on the cope train of "voice is stale, ackchtuallyyyyy we're better without him" it was pathetic. Now we have Blash and he's really not any different or better.

I maintain that if the Leafs fired Babs tomorrow and Yzerman somehow brought him back into the fold, the narrative would quickly flip. But unfortunately my hypothetical scenario is probably unlikely. Womp womp.

 

[ChrisReevesLegs]

Doubt it
from 07-08 to 9-10.
Datsyuk with Z; 62.4CF vs 58.9CF
2.64 points/60 vs 2.44 overall (so probably around 2.1 or 2.2 without)

I'm not willing to dig up the article that displayed the numbers so you win this round friend

 

[ChrisReevesLegs]

Personal shots are how people maintain their superiority!

Coaches lose their effectiveness over time.
Babcock lost his.
A lot of people will tell you that Babcock performed poorly from 09-13.

I don't necessarily agree Babs has lost his effectiveness yet, but whatevs.

I think by a lot of people from 09-13, you mean the vocal minority, and now a lot of people looking back in hindsight. The roster was taking noticeable hits at the end of the streak. To attribute those increasingly poorer rosters play on Babs is a bit silly and disingenuous.

 

[FMichael]

Red Wings fans circa 2013: "Babs is the best coach in the GD league"

Red Wings fans circa 2015: "Well ackchytually he's completely overrated and his voice is super stale and the players hate him, and I'm actually happy one of the best the coaches in the league is ditching us for our biggest rival"

*proceed to suck under Blash*

Cope harder

$5 says Grand Master Y will hire Babcock once he becomes available...Just watch the come pouring in!

 

[ShelbyZ]

I want Yzerman to hire Dave Lewis just so I can watch some fans call it 288D chess from Yzerman to try to secure Lafreniere.

 

[Mlotek]

LOL. Lots of Wings fans, a minority, admittedly, wanted him gone a long time ago.
Blashill has all of Babcock's idiotic lines and player usage, and none of the gameplan/structure.

Sometime around 2009 or so, both Babcock and Holland started doubling down on all their worst traits.
Babcock just had to separate Datsyuk and Zetterberg, for example. Just had to.
Even though he could have gone Franzen-Flip-Hossa, he had to separate the best combination in the NHL. A combination that won him the cup in 08.
He had to play guys like Cleary and Abdelkader and Helm in positions where they didn't belong. etc etc etc.
And he just got more and more stubborn about his stupid tendencies.

Bowman left Detroit in July of 08 for Chicago.

100% coincidence.

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

Bowman left Detroit in July of 08 for Chicago.

100% coincidence.

Scotty took a good bit of Mojo with him, though I don't blame him for wanting to be with his son. SY has brought the Mojo back, I think this year will be more exciting than the last ~7 b/c of all the young guns on the cusp and/or in the lineup already (even if the standings are same/worse). The long awaited & overdue turnover has arrived.

 

[odin1981]

Newfy...

Why did you write your response inside the quote box? I don't even use this website on a regular basis and I know how this works. Maybe after you get to 10,000 messages... lol

I think you're vastly over exaggerating the amount of folks who thought Babs was the problem in 2013. But I'll acknowledge that those who moaned and griped about him existed. When he left for Toronto literally almost everyone jumped on the cope train of "voice is stale, ackchtuallyyyyy we're better without him" it was pathetic. Now we have Blash and he's really not any different or better.

I maintain that if the Leafs fired Babs tomorrow and Yzerman somehow brought him back into the fold, the narrative would quickly flip. But unfortunately my hypothetical scenario is probably unlikely. Womp womp.

You really know nothing about this board. Around 60-70% of this board wanted him gone and there is a voting thread about it as proof so search it up. Babs is overrated signed, signed, and delivered.

 

[MBH]

I don't necessarily agree Babs has lost his effectiveness yet, but whatevs.

I think by a lot of people from 09-13, you mean the vocal minority, and now a lot of people looking back in hindsight. The roster was taking noticeable hits at the end of the streak. To attribute those increasingly poorer rosters play on Babs is a bit silly and disingenuous.

I mean, with a particular group.
When Babcock was hired in Toronto, I gave him 5 years.
We're coming up on it.

Bottom line is, we were about the same under Babcock as we were the next year with Blashill.

I'm glad that guy is gone.

 

[Retire91]

Babcock is a great coach when the structure of the roster doesn't allow him to misbehave. When his nonsensical lines still click because the talent fills in the gap. When the roster degrades his worst traits are on display. Those last years were brutal and he entered the club of overstayed welcome. We haven't even talked about Bab-cock blocking the kids. Not that they were world beaters but, were the veterans anything to be excited about?

I still feel fine with Blash because there is nothing at stake right now anyway. As the roster improves if he turns out to get the job done I will still be fine with him.