News Article: Babcock to Toronto - for all the monies

[billybudd]

Hey guys, Buffalo fan here. I was wondering if you could give me a quick positives vs negatives analysis regarding Bylsma as a coach. He's been linked to Buffalo (and other teams) quite a bit, and had a fantastic regular season winning record with you guys. Anyone care to give me your thoughts? It would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

Good to great motivator. One of the few NHL coaches that will risk innovation (which isn't to say his innovation works...our D spent 6 years getting just destroyed by forecheckers in the name of trying to get the puck up ice quicker...funnily enough, Mike Babcock actually adopted DB's puck retrieval scheme for a few months). Stubborn as all Hell. Arrogant to a fault. Believes that his ideas are infallible so much that if another coach comes up with a direct counter to something he does (for fun, go find a Bylsma Pens game against Pete DeBoer's Devils and watch how the Devil's forecheck paralyzed us), he just chalks it up to his own guys not wanting it enough, rather than admit an X and O failure.

Bylsma of the last two years also had an insufferable tendency to bench his players for sticking up for a teammate, though that did not exist prior.


The 'prejudiced against young players' thing is an overblown quasi-myth, originally born out of his treatment of Eric Tangradi: a player that never should have made it out of the A who some people around here, for reasons I didn't understand then or now, thought it was prejudice to not give this poor hockey player a 40 game audition on the first freaking line.

The list of young players with NHL stuff who got a raw deal under him is one name long: Simon Despres, whom DB had some personal problem with.

In actuality, Bylsma gave way too much prime opportunity to more than one "young player" of questionable abilities or fit and left them there long after it was clear that the experiments were a failure. See also: stubbornness.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Bylsma's biggest problem was basically just adjusting to the other team and treatment of some players and the use of some over others. I think everything else he was about on par with the better coaches in the league if we are being honest. Even the best coaches have issues with the rest of it besides adjustment.

Anyways, Babcock smiling is a terrifying sight. The contract still cracks me up, Detroit will motor along with Blashill and the Leafs will continue being the sideshow that they are.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Yeah I dont know how I made the mistake. I could swear I saw a second thread. To be fair, I was on a conference call at the same time and was distracted

i hate when work distracts me from my HFing


As for Bylsma, he believed his system worked no matter what. Instead of adjusting, he wanted guys to grind harder.

 

[displacedpensfan]

Bizarre Gut Feeling

I have this bizarre gut feeling that Bylsma ends up getting hired by the Sharks, and I can't tell you why.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I have this bizarre gut feeling that Bylsma ends up getting hired by the Sharks, and I can't tell you why.

Yeah Buffalo isn't a good fit at all, Sharks have a ton of vets, that's Bylsma's bread and butter. Buffalo needs someone that will develop that youth.

I think Boucher should be in Buffalo, Bylsma in San Jose.

 

[IcedCapp]

Crazy having him land here. Not a Leafs fan, but certainly feel bad for Leafs fans, so it's nice to see something nice happen for them.

That said, I don't get people balking at this deal. As a Pens fan, I would have done it without a second thought. Sure, it's not my money, but just like Sid and Geno don't come around often, neither do coaches like Babcock hit the market. You do whatever you can to get that kind of talent. $8MM a year is nothing when you look at what players are making, and when you consider Babcock would be a theoretical upgrade to the entire organization.

 

[mpp9]

Crazy having him land here. Not a Leafs fan, but certainly feel bad for Leafs fans, so it's nice to see something nice happen for them.

That said, I don't get people balking at this deal. As a Pens fan, I would have done it without a second thought. Sure, it's not my money, but just like Sid and Geno don't come around often, neither do coaches like Babcock hit the market. You do whatever you can to get that kind of talent. $8MM a year is nothing when you look at what players are making, and when you consider Babcock would be a theoretical upgrade to the entire organization.

He's not 4 times better than MJ, but yeah, there's no cap on coaching, so any self-proclaimed contending team should take advantage if they can.

 

[IcedCapp]

He's not 4 times better than MJ, but yeah, there's no cap on coaching, so any self-proclaimed contending team should take advantage if they can.

I don't know how to quantify levels of "better than". I simply know he's better than MJ, and I believe he carries infinitely-more credibility and accountability. That alone is worth more than any tactical or strategic advantages he may have over the Pens' current situation.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I think with coaches, you look at their last 3-5yrs of work.

Babcock's doesn't wow me.

 

[IcedCapp]

I think with coaches, you look at their last 3-5yrs of work.

Babcock's doesn't wow me.

neither does his roster, imo.

The thing with Babcock's teams, for me, is they are always disciplined, always structured, always well-coached.

I said before the Tampa series, I thought that was going to be super close, and even thought Detroit would win. Obviously I was wrong in the end, but it was super close, and it wasn't because Detroit's roster is on Tampa's level, but because Babcock is good at getting his players to play in such a way that they always have a chance.

 

[Ogrezilla]

we really need to accept the fact that making money is more important to Burkle than hiring the best coach. Whatever the difference in cost is between MJ and Babs, the team would not make that much extra money by bringing him in. He would be an upgrade, but not a cost effective one. We are not a team with unlimited resources.

 

[IcedCapp]

we really need to accept the fact that making money is more important to Burkle than hiring the best coach. Whatever the difference in cost is between MJ and Babs, the team would not make that much extra money by bringing him in. He would be an upgrade, but not a cost effective one. We are not a team with unlimited resources.

I'd rather cut $10Mil worth of player fat and have a top notch management staff than be a cap team with the three stooges.

 

[mpp9]

I don't know how to quantify levels of "better than". I simply know he's better than MJ, and I believe he carries infinitely-more credibility and accountability. That alone is worth more than any tactical or strategic advantages he may have over the Pens' current situation.

He's not that much better than MJ to warrant being paid 4 times as much, but I think coaching is far down the list of problems for this team. When you factor in having to pay MJ after firing him, that's 8 figures. Not exactly something I'd be thrilled about if I'm ownership.

I'd much rather they dedicate that money to doing what's necessary to cut the real fat on this team, and that's the older players on the roster. Whether that be buyouts, salary retention, etc.

 

[Ogrezilla]

I'd rather cut $10Mil worth of player fat and have a top notch management staff than be a cap team with the three stooges.

problem is, Babcock isn't a full management staff. On top of that, Babcock isn't exactly a guy known for wanting to get rid of his vets.

 

[The Greatest 101]

I actually think Dan might be a good fit for Buffalo.When he was forced to play young players,he was good at it.He would have no other choice but play the young player in Buffalo.

 

[IcedCapp]

problem is, Babcock isn't a full management staff. On top of that, Babcock isn't exactly a guy known for wanting to get rid of his vets.

Just in general. If not Babcock, just not MJ and JR.

We have Ferraris in Sid and Geno and we surround them in Yugos on every level.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Just in general. If not Babcock, just not MJ and JR.

We have Ferraris in Sid and Geno and we surround them in Yugos on every level.

fair enough. It really is hard to understand the desire to add experience at every position in the organization except for head coach.

 

[Giskard]

This organization never wanted Babcock in first place. Everybody known that his contracts was up this year, but when they signed MJ last year they went the full 3 seasons contract. If they wanted a shot at Babcock they could had sign MJ to a one year contract, it's not like that a rookie coach would have such a leverage to force a multi year deal.

 

[chethejet]

Man that deal is hard to justify. Babcock is a very good coach, but like all coaches, he is subject to injuries, age and the cap. Unlike Detroit, Toronto is a very hard place to coach. Always in the spotlight and with the rebuild, it will be interesting. Pens own the arena and is a cash cow. Now I do think the bloom is off the rose as to the Pens and the blind loyalty. Another year of under performance and fans just losing interest will force the changes needed to begin the rebuild with the farm and the development of prospects.

 

[Tasty Biscuits]

This organization never wanted Babcock in first place. Everybody known that his contracts was up this year, but when they signed MJ last year they went the full 3 seasons contract. If they wanted a shot at Babcock they could had sign MJ to a one year contract, it's not like that a rookie coach would have such a leverage to force a multi year deal.

No coach, rookie or otherwise, is signing a one-year deal anywhere.

 

[CanadianPensFan1]

i hate when work distracts me from my HFing

Right? Its terrible.

Crazy having him land here. Not a Leafs fan, but certainly feel bad for Leafs fans, so it's nice to see something nice happen for them.

I certainly dont feel bad for Leafs fans at all. They are the biggest, yet most whiny, ridiculous fanbase.

They are so starved for ANYTHING positive that, I think it was the Toronto Sun had 14 .. yes, FOURTEEN pages of content regarding Babcock yesterday.

14 pages. Of the sports section in a newspaper. On the hiring of a coach.

Let that sink in, folks.

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

One thing that Shanny said yesterday, which was a dig at the Pens was that he didn't want to spend all his time looking for a GM while all the good coaches got hired. He saw his coach and went for him.

God I wish they hired Trotz before JR.

 

[Ogrezilla]

One thing that Shanny said yesterday, which was a dig at the Pens was that he didn't want to spend all his time looking for a GM while all the good coaches got hired. He saw his coach and went for him.

God I wish they hired Trotz before JR.

agreed. Can't blame anyone for Laviollette I guess, he was hired before we were out of the playoffs, right? But I'd have been thrilled with Trotz.

I don't really dislike MJ. But I just don't get why we would go with a rookie head coach in our situation.

 

[DegenX]

agreed. Can't blame anyone for Laviollette I guess, he was hired before we were out of the playoffs, right? But I'd have been thrilled with Trotz.

I don't really dislike MJ. But I just don't get why we would go with a rookie head coach in our situation.

The easier to manipulate him, most likely. But, yeah, I don't really dislike him, either. Some of his personnel decisions have been head scratchers, but I wouldn't doubt some of that was doing what he was told to do. In terms of actual strategy, he's been overall pretty solid. Not perfect, but he this was his first year, bound to be a learning curve.

 

[Ogrezilla]

The easier to manipulate him, most likely. But, yeah, I don't really dislike him, either. Some of his personnel decisions have been head scratchers, but I wouldn't doubt some of that was doing what he was told to do. In terms of actual strategy, he's been overall pretty solid. Not perfect, but he this was his first year, bound to be a learning curve.

he's been pretty much I'd expect from a rookie head coach. Can't really blame him for being a rookie; its not like we didn't know that going in. The key will be whether he actually ever improves or not.