News Article: Babcock to Toronto - for all the monies

[BrunoPuntzJones]

Fire Johnston for trapping in a trapping league. Hire a guy who won't trap. I promise we won't hate him for refusing to trap in a trapping league and suffering for it.

 

[Ogrezilla]

In part because of tactics such as the one Johnston prefers.

okay

 

[Darth Vitale]

Has the Toronto media started to gang up on him yet?

As bad as Pittsburgh's media are, at least they're not ravenous psychos. And if that's not damning with faint praise I don't know what is.

 

[PKV Jungle Friends]

My season ticket rep.

As someone who has worked in sports before, as a ticket rep, I will say that he's being pretty transparent about something that is usually under lock and key, even in a good situation.

You were flat out told that people are bailing? That's the opposite of what someone trying to sell anything should say. Haha

You guys must have a good relationship and he must know that you're not going anywhere regardless.

 

[MrBurghundy]

Has the Toronto media started to gang up on him yet?

As bad as Pittsburgh's media are, at least they're not ravenous psychos. And if that's not damning with faint praise I don't know what is.

At this point, with the way the Penguins are structured, I'd rather have Toronto's media breathing fire down their throats.

 

[billybudd]

Constantine's issue is not unlike Bylsma and Johnston, albeit they're all vastly different styles: the unwillingness to cater to your superstars.

In my mind, coaching brilliance is a very relative term. If you X and O better than anyone else, but alienate your best player in the process, you're NOT as good of a coach as you think you are.

I don't really agree with that as it pertains to any of them. Constantine destroyed his third line to give Jagr a right-handed shot for backdoor plays. He only dressed 11 forwards a night so he could double shift 68. Lang, Straka and Kovalev had yet to emerge as stars...in fact, Lang was waived 3 times right around those years, so it's not like Constantine was the one holding him back.

He didn't really limit creativity, either. There were types of attacks he took off the table (notably cycles sustained by pinches, but also D weren't allowed to activate), but Jagr never used his point men anyway and it's not like he told Kovalev he wasn't allowed to dangle through a trap in the neutral zone. Pretty sure that was eventually King Con's breakout strategy on the powerplay--use Kovy's headfakes and stickhandles as a trap breaker.

If Constantine had played the game more wide open, instead of trying to leverage special teams into a draw, that roster doesn't make the playoffs, let alone pick off the New Jersey juggernaut. The D was way too bad on an individual level and the goaltending really, really shaky (Barrasso has shotblocking and the low collapse, not his own play, to thank for his last Vezina nomination).

Only times I can remember Bylsma actively hindering his superstars were when he had Iginla on the wrong wing and Bennett on the first line. I mean, he did both things, but we're talking about maybe 40 games out of about 500. In the rest of the games, he did have the 4 best wings available to him with his two star centers. He built a strategy on trying to create odd-man rushes, which played to their strengths just fine, even if it was a one-trick system that was easy to counter.

In Johnston's case, I simply don't think he had anything to work with. Sure Kunitz didn't help most nights, but what the Hell else was he supposed to do, play Downie on his off-wing? What happens when Downie gets kicked out of the game? Kunitz goes right back where he was.

I'm somewhat sympathetic to the argument that various GMs have failed to build around "the superstars," but I don't think any of the coaches have worked at cross purposes with them at all. Maybe Hlinka, but Hlinka didn't hinder his superstars so much as choosing one over the other until 66 unretired.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I laugh at the notion that Babcock is going to make Kessel play like he cares or with any kind of intensity.

The guy looks like Wellwood conditioning wise before Wellwood started to care, the only difference is that Kessel is so talented, his largess hasn't hindered him yet. But holy crap, I have never seen anyone just produce and then phone it in when games mattered most.

He's done it under a lot of coaches some very good and have a Cup under their belt and others not so good. How is one guy that is so massively overrated that his work 6yrs ago still carries weight to this day when most other coaches would never get that benefit?

 

[Honour Over Glory]

At this point, with the way the Penguins are structured, I'd rather have Toronto's media breathing fire down their throats.

It would be irritating as hell but it would also shed a ton of light on the problems. I pray for this actually, when the sports media in Pittsburgh turn into rabid hockey fans and start to question every moronic move this team has made in recent years to epic stupid proportions.

 

[MeticulouslyDishevel]

Has the Toronto media started to gang up on him yet?

As bad as Pittsburgh's media are, at least they're not ravenous psychos. And if that's not damning with faint praise I don't know what is.

They're still in the honeymoon phase. Give it a few more days.

 

[Til the End of Time]

more than the money, i am interested to know how much management authority toronto was willing to grant babcock. has that been addressed?

 

[Ogrezilla]

more than the money, i am interested to know how much management authority toronto was willing to grant babcock. has that been addressed?

not that I've seen, but I would think that was a key piece in getting him.

 

[Til the End of Time]

not that I've seen, but I would think that was a key piece in getting him.

depending on the authority granted to babcock, it would be curious to see which is a more effective management strategy-- significant coaching and managerial power held by a single great hockey mind such as babcock versus the pens current brain trust of 9 or so managers.

obviously many confounders, but it will be interesting to watch toronto the next few years, especially if they have given babcock significant control in assembling his roster.

it will also be a nice little case report on how important coaching is/is not.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

I laugh at the notion that Babcock is going to make Kessel play like he cares or with any kind of intensity.

The guy looks like Wellwood conditioning wise before Wellwood started to care, the only difference is that Kessel is so talented, his largess hasn't hindered him yet. But holy crap, I have never seen anyone just produce and then phone it in when games mattered most.

Kessel has 13 GOALS and 21 points in 22 career postseason games. That's when 'games mattered most'.

He is always singled out, but the truth is EVERYBODY mailed it in on the Leafs this past season...including management for firing the very competent Randy Carlyle while they were actually in a playoff position.

I don't know if he and Babcock will be able to co-exist, but I sure as hell would take Kessel on this team.

 

[Shady Machine]

depending on the authority granted to babcock, it would be curious to see which is a more effective management strategy-- significant coaching and managerial power held by a single great hockey mind such as babcock versus the pens current brain trust of 9 or so managers.

obviously many confounders, but it will be interesting to watch toronto the next few years, especially if they have given babcock significant control in assembling his roster.

it will also be a nice little case report on how important coaching is/is not.

Agreed. Shanny kind of side-stepped the GM search questions by saying something like "we are evaluating options and if the right GM comes along, we are interested". To me that means they are seriously considering a scenario where Shanny is President of Hockey Ops and the GM face while Babcock gets a lot of say in personnel decisions. They have Hunter for finding talented prospects and young free agents, and Dubas for analytics (I think there is some other assistant GM too). That seems like enough guys to me.

 

[Shady Machine]

Kessel has 13 GOALS and 21 points in 22 career postseason games. That's when 'games mattered most'.

He is always singled out, but the truth is EVERYBODY mailed it in on the Leafs this past season...including management for firing the very competent Randy Carlyle while they were actually in a playoff position.

I don't know if he and Babcock will be able to co-exist, but I sure as hell would take Kessel on this team.

Agreed. Kessel gets far more hate than he deserves IMO.

 

[IcedCapp]

Wouldn't be surprised if Hunter becomes the gm or agm with Babcock.

 

[Shady Machine]

Wouldn't be surprised if Hunter becomes the gm or agm with Babcock.

Yeah that's another option. Good point.

 

[66-30-33]

Kessel has 13 GOALS and 21 points in 22 career postseason games. That's when 'games mattered most'.

He is always singled out, but the truth is EVERYBODY mailed it in on the Leafs this past season...including management for firing the very competent Randy Carlyle while they were actually in a playoff position.

I don't know if he and Babcock will be able to co-exist, but I sure as hell would take Kessel on this team.

If Leafs eat 1.5-2M of Kessels contract, i'd like to have Kessel here. The asking price would be insane though....

 

[Sideline]

If Leafs eat 1.5-2M of Kessels contract, i'd like to have Kessel here. The asking price would be insane though....

As far as I'm concerned Kessel is worth somewhere around what James Neal was worth. Kessel can do more on his own, but the extra $3 million per year takes a bite out of his value.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

more than the money, i am interested to know how much management authority toronto was willing to grant babcock. has that been addressed?

Babcock said in his press conference that there is nothing in his contract about player personnel decisions. That doesn't mean he won't be involved mind you, but it wasn't that big a selling point it sounds like.

 

[SprootsMasterFlex]