Sportsnet: Babcock not happy with refs

[Wafflewhipper]

On a team that as bad as the Leafs are, to be the best player is not really a difficult accomplishment. 28th in goals per game, 23rd in goals against, 29th on the PP, 22nd on the PK, dead last in the league in points, we have a 3rd liner leading the team in goals. To put Babcock's comment into context, in the 99 year history of the Leafs no player has ever scored as few points as Kadri is on pace to score in a full season and lead the Leafs in scoring. That is how poor the talent pool is on this team. Kadri currently Leafs the Leafs in scoring.

To be the best of a dogs lunch, is not really anything special to bark about.

Its called context.

Context that to the relativity of Kadri scoring more then philosopher king. Its called context.

 

[Menzinger]

Technically anyone who takes a penalty is a "cheater" - I suppose we should dump the entire team except for the goalies for not having "honour "?

 

[Gallagbi]

Technically anyone who takes a penalty is a "cheater" - I suppose we should dump the entire team except for the goalies for not having "honour "?

I'm surprised Toews has lasted this long cheating on all those face offs.

 

[Menzinger]

I'm surprised Toews has lasted this long cheating on all those face offs.

What a disgrace to the game - he should obviously be banished to the KHL

 

[Gary Nylund]

I guess hockey should be like golf where players sometimes call penalties on themselves. So if you trip someone and the Referee misses it, you should turn yourself in, call a penalty on yourself and head for the penalty box.

 

[Gallagbi]

I guess hockey should be like golf where players sometimes call penalties on themselves. So if you trip someone and the Referee misses it, you should turn yourself in, call a penalty on yourself and head for the penalty box.

Looked like Krecji did that on Saturday. Too bad that cheater Kadri didn't get the call.

 

[Bluelines]

And what happens if Kadri plays with a winger (or two) for the vast majority of the season who is actually capable of outscoring him?

It hasn't happened yet throughout his tenure here.

Bozak (and I use him because he is a Leaf center, specifically) has had at least 3 (Kessel, Lupul, JVR) for multiple seasons. Usually at the same time.

If Kadri has that kind of support, his production will rise. If he keeps playing with 30 point wingers, it's going to be tough to constantly drag them along offensively. Same as it would for everybody.

What ever you gotta tell yourself to help you sleep at night. If you think Kadri is going to all of a sudden become a star because he is playing with some 1st year NHLer's have at'er.

 

[Bluelines]

Technically anyone who takes a penalty is a "cheater" - I suppose we should dump the entire team except for the goalies for not having "honour "?

Good god, strawman much?

 

[Gary Nylund]

What ever you gotta tell yourself to help you sleep at night. If you think Kadri is going to all of a sudden become a star because he is playing with some 1st year NHLer's have at'er.

Sure, it's been well established that linemates have zero impact on point totals. Even guys playing with Gretzky never saw any increase in point totals. Put Kane and Ovechkin on Kadri's wing and he'd still plod along at his 49 point pace as usual.

 

[ShaneFalco]

How about Naz "Ribeiro" Kadri?

Seriously though, there are some known divers in the league. Do you want one on your team?
The guy has to stop that crap

 

[ShaneFalco]

Sure, it's been well established that linemates have zero impact on point totals. Even guys playing with Gretzky never saw any increase in point totals. Put Kane and Ovechkin on Kadri's wing and he'd still plod along at his 49 point pace as usual.

So the Leafs should sign Kadri to a long-term deal at 5+ in the hopes that he can score when he gets better linemates? And despite the fact that his shot is ....terrible?
Aren't Leaf fans tired of mediocrity?

 

[Ari91]

I don't really which team you play for - I don't care about embellishing plays IF the embellishment is caused by an actual illegal play that should be penalized. If the embellishment is what draws the attention to the refs to make the call then I'm fine with it. I don't agree with penalties being called based on the reaction of a player. I don't agree with a player taking very minor contact and selling it as being hurt for the sake of a call. Just because a player doesn't make a whacking motion with his stick doesn't mean that a player didn't feel a sting from the unnecessary contact from the back of his skates. I'm more likely to give a player the benefit of the doubt if he's 'embellishing'. If a player is diving and getting knocked over by air (which I've seen happen), those are the plays and calls that I find amusing.

 

[TLeafsFan]

Let's face it. The naysayers will always have something to rag on Naz about as long as he is a Leaf.

Putting up really good points in his the shortened season and subsequent 50 pointer, but his faceoffs were atrocious and his two way game was highly criticised.

Now his faceoffs have drastically improved as well as his two way play, through the past two seasons and he's suddenly a cheat, a diver, a whiner and a puck hog this season.

Just wait until he gets re-signed and Babcock determines that its time to put a letter on him.

 

[ShaneFalco]

He put up 50 points when the Leafs were playing pond hockey and his two-way game was non-existent. He has improved his two-way game, I'll give him that, but under a structured system like Babcock's, there's no way I give him a long-term deal. Again, I want better than mediocre. He doesn't make players around him better, his shot is terrible, and I'd rather keep Bozak for 2 more years who can do as much, if not more then Naz can.
He's had issues in the past with management, and right now he's known for embellishing.

This was a show-me year and he hasn't produced enough to be part of the long-term solution here.

 

[Gary Nylund]

So the Leafs should sign Kadri to a long-term deal at 5+ in the hopes that he can score when he gets better linemates? And despite the fact that his shot is ....terrible?
Aren't Leaf fans tired of mediocrity?

Mediocrity? We haven't had a team that good in a while now so ... but I get what you're saying, we all want to have a winning team. Clearly you feel getting rid of our best players is a step in the right direction, that's where we disagree.

I don't really which team you play for - I don't care about embellishing plays IF the embellishment is caused by an actual illegal play that should be penalized. If the embellishment is what draws the attention to the refs to make the call then I'm fine with it. I don't agree with penalties being called based on the reaction of a player. I don't agree with a player taking very minor contact and selling it as being hurt for the sake of a call. Just because a player doesn't make a whacking motion with his stick doesn't mean that a player didn't feel a sting from the unnecessary contact from the back of his skates. I'm more likely to give a player the benefit of the doubt if he's 'embellishing'. If a player is diving and getting knocked over by air (which I've seen happen), those are the plays and calls that I find amusing.

I get where you're coming from and I agree with the spirit of what you're saying. It'll always be a bit of a fine line though and as far as the bolded goes - I don't see how the players would know if the ref's are watching them in any particular split second so it would be impossible for them to decide if it's necessary to embellish for an infraction to be seen.

 

[Menzinger]

Good god, strawman much?

No, it's the same thing. Why single out Kadri for allegedly bending the rules - when tripping or
Slashing an opposing player is every bit as against the rules as embellishment.

They both happen on a regular basis.

 

[Bluelines]

Sure, it's been well established that linemates have zero impact on point totals. Even guys playing with Gretzky never saw any increase in point totals. Put Kane and Ovechkin on Kadri's wing and he'd still plod along at his 49 point pace as usual.

Oh so we are getting Gretzky, Kane and Ovie caliber players next year, or are we getting pretty much the same kids who Kadri has been playing with for the last 14 games, for the record, 7 points, 6 in two games game, 1 point in the other 12.

You heard it here first folks Gary said that Hyman, Sasha and Nylander are Gretzky, Ovie, and Kane caliber players...

Put Kadri on Ovie and Kanes wing and those two guys points totals would drop...

 

[Bluelines]

No, it's the same thing. Why single out Kadri for allegedly bending the rules - when tripping or
Slashing an opposing player is every bit as against the rules as embellishment.

They both happen on a regular basis.

Because tripping and slashing are usually evident at the time and are penalized accordingly at that time. Embellishment is not always obvious at the time of the infraction and not always penalized at the time of the infraction, thus the reaction to Kadri, watching last night he got the message the refs were sending, mission accomplished.

Hey we get it, you have no problem with any player cheating to give his team an advantage. To each their own standards.

 

[Bluelines]

So the Leafs should sign Kadri to a long-term deal at 5+ in the hopes that he can score when he gets better linemates? And despite the fact that his shot is ....terrible?
Aren't Leaf fans tired of mediocrity?

Well clearly according to Gary he is going to be a first line superstar, we should give Kadri a 8 year $64 mil contract right now... best strike before this 7 year veterans career takes off...and we have to give him 12 mil a year.

I'm all giddy thinking Kadri has actually been much much better that what he has shown for the last 7 years, all he is waiting for is for other players to make him better.... #hesakeeper

 

[Bluelines]

Let's face it. The naysayers will always have something to rag on Naz about as long as he is a Leaf.

Putting up really good points in his the shortened season and subsequent 50 pointer, but his faceoffs were atrocious and his two way game was highly criticised.

Now his faceoffs have drastically improved as well as his two way play, through the past two seasons and he's suddenly a cheat, a diver, a whiner and a puck hog this season.

Just wait until he gets re-signed and Babcock determines that its time to put a letter on him.

50 points is not so good for a guy with 1st line minutes but lets not use that realty to debate this point...

His face off % has improved but it was horrible before and its mediocre now.

His 2 way play has not been great, its barely average. He is consistently over matched by bigger more skilled forward.

Babcock wanted to see what he had in Kadri so he gave him every opportunity to show what he had. I'm sure that will mean he will be back on the 2nd line next year, if he is back.

 

[Menzinger]

Because tripping and slashing are usually evident at the time and are penalized accordingly at that time. Embellishment is not always obvious at the time of the infraction and not always penalized at the time of the infraction, thus the reaction to Kadri, watching last night he got the message the refs were sending, mission accomplished.

Hey we get it, you have no problem with any player cheating to give his team an advantage. To each their own standards.

So cheating is okay as long as it's "obvious", like attempting To physically harm anther player with an illegal move?

I think it's hypocritical to be against one type of illegal move but not others. I merely accept that these things are part of the game, for better or for worse.

And I have yet to see any tangible proof produced in this thread that Kadri embellishes more than the average NHLer.

 

[TLeafsFan]

So cheating is okay as long as it's "obvious", like attempting To physically harm anther player with an illegal move?

I think it's hypocritical to be against one type of illegal move but not others. I merely accept that these things are part of the game, for better or for worse.

And I have yet to see any tangible proof produced in this thread that Kadri embellishes more than the average NHLer.

You should see the latest players survey.

They polled to ask about the dirtiest players in the league.

On my mobile so I can't link.

Marchand and Subban top the list in that category. Kadri isn't even on it.

 

[Hockey Talker29]

What ever you gotta tell yourself to help you sleep at night. If you think Kadri is going to all of a sudden become a star because he is playing with some 1st year NHLer's have at'er.

He's never been outscored by one of his linemates. That's quite substantial in terms of illustrating how little offensive support he's been given.

But don't let facts get in the way of your biased, subjective opinion.

 

[Bluelines]

He's never been outscored by one of his linemates. That's quite substantial in terms of illustrating how little offensive support he's been given.

But don't let facts get in the way of your biased, subjective opinion.

Makes sense when you got a puck hog that rarely dishes the puck with a horrible shooting % and top ten in the league with SOG, how can his linemates get scoring chances, Kadri is taking them all.

His sub 6% shooting percentage with nearly 250 SOG illustrates just how poor of an offensive threat he is.

Don't let facts get in the way of your desperate attempt to paint Kadri as a victim of circumstance.

 

[Bluelines]

So cheating is okay as long as it's "obvious", like attempting To physically harm anther player with an illegal move?

I think it's hypocritical to be against one type of illegal move but not others. I merely accept that these things are part of the game, for better or for worse.

And I have yet to see any tangible proof produced in this thread that Kadri embellishes more than the average NHLer.

Work on your reading skills, nothing I said could be taken as me saying cheating is OK.