Babcock Contract Negotiations

[Frk It]

Most interesting part of the article I posted to me was this:

Babcock knows there are players and coaches out there who have worked with him who say he pushes people too hard. That he’s so focused on winning he sometimes forgets about the people whose careers he’s impacting. He himself estimates that at any given time one-third of his players are disgruntled with his leadership. “It’s a revolving third,†he says.

 

[icKx]

So he's satisfied being a hardass who the players don't like and yet is dejected when we strike out with UFAs.

 

[Run the Jewels]

So he's satisfied being a hardass who the players don't like and yet is dejected when we strike out with UFAs.

Actually he's routinely been voted by the players as the coach they'd most like to play for. Guys who are on their way out of the league don't like him because he's kicking them the real deal. They greatly prefer guys like Ken Holland who will sign them to new deals, give them no movement clauses, and keep them on the team when young players have clearly taken their place.

 

[SoupGuru]

The only thing we have to go on are his comments. He's asked for guys to play in Detroit (Smith, Ouellet, possibly Mrazek) who Holland ended up sending down to Grand Rapids. He's also made biting comments about striking out in free agency. He's asked time and time again for right handed defensemen. He's literally been asking for them for years.

Now it could just be that he's venting and isn't all that concerned. On the other hand there's the inconvenient fact he can pretty much write his next contract with Detroit but hasn't signed one and will be highly sought after as soon as the season is over. So you ask yourself, what's holding him up?

Read that article that was posted in this thread. Mike Babcock is not comfortable or self satisfied, despite the fact he will never hurt for money in his life and has won every championship you can win in this game. Ken Holland? He seems awfully comfortable. He's gone on record saying his only goal is to make the playoffs. Do you seriously think Mike Babcock is just happy to make the playoffs?

I don't think Mike Babcock wants Ken Holland's job. I do think he wants a GM who will ice the best team possible which will help Babcock win as much as possible in order to become "the best coach of his generation". Time will tell if he thinks he can cement that claim in Detroit or if he thinks there is a better opportunity out there for him.

He could have signed a new contract with Anaheim but he said the Detroit team was stacked to the point of potentially being a dynasty. Are we looking pretty close to what Anaheim looked like when he said "thanks, but no thanks" to Anaheim and signed with the Wings?

We'll know soon enough.

That's just it... which organization is run better than the Wings? Where can Babcock go that is an upgrade with the organization's commitment to doing things the right way? Which organization is classier? Which organization will he go to that will give him less frustration with the roster, as many here think?

 

[icKx]

Actually he's routinely been voted by the players as the coach they'd most like to play for. Guys who are on their way out of the league don't like him because he's kicking them the real deal. They greatly prefer guys like Ken Holland who will sign them to new deals, give them no movement clauses, and keep them on the team when young players have clearly taken their place.

Where? Last NHLPA poll I saw Bylsma won and Q was the runner-up.

 

[InjuredChoker]

The only thing we have to go on are his comments. He's asked for guys to play in Detroit (Smith, Ouellet, possibly Mrazek) who Holland ended up sending down to Grand Rapids. He's also made biting comments about striking out in free agency. He's asked time and time again for right handed defensemen. He's literally been asking for them for years.

Now it could just be that he's venting and isn't all that concerned. On the other hand there's the inconvenient fact he can pretty much write his next contract with Detroit but hasn't signed one and will be highly sought after as soon as the season is over. So you ask yourself, what's holding him up?

Read that article that was posted in this thread. Mike Babcock is not comfortable or self satisfied, despite the fact he will never hurt for money in his life and has won every championship you can win in this game. Ken Holland? He seems awfully comfortable. He's gone on record saying his only goal is to make the playoffs. Do you seriously think Mike Babcock is just happy to make the playoffs?

I don't think Mike Babcock wants Ken Holland's job. I do think he wants a GM who will ice the best team possible which will help Babcock win as much as possible in order to become "the best coach of his generation". Time will tell if he thinks he can cement that claim in Detroit or if he thinks there is a better opportunity out there for him.

He could have signed a new contract with Anaheim but he said the Detroit team was stacked to the point of potentially being a dynasty. Are we looking pretty close to what Anaheim looked like when he said "thanks, but no thanks" to Anaheim and signed with the Wings?

We'll know soon enough.

where? i've heard him say multiple times and have heard many others say multiple times, including last year when they made the playoffs that this isn't enough, we aren't satisfied. people (at least pierre mcguire) came to congratulate kenny on making playoffs and kenny said we haven't won anything yet, this is where the real games start.

 

[Run the Jewels]

where? i've heard him say multiple times and have heard many others say multiple times, including last year when they made the playoffs that this isn't enough, we aren't satisfied. people (at least pierre mcguire) came to congratulate kenny on making playoffs and kenny said we haven't won anything yet, this is where the real games start.

Ah, so we're going to pretend "rebuild on the fly" isn't a Holland thing? The past couple seasons he's said "just make the playoffs and anything can happen". No one thinks this team is a legit Cup contender and a big part of the reason why is because of the words and actions of the guy running the organization.

 

[Dotter]

Ken Holland? He seems awfully comfortable. He's gone on record saying his only goal is to make the playoffs. Do you seriously think Mike Babcock is just happy to make the playoffs?

That's hogwash. Please provide a source... if you can?

 

[SoupGuru]

Ah Red Wings fans - where just making the playoffs is a sign of failure. As if we want our GM to come out and say "Making the playoffs isn't really important for us right now."

Winning the Cup is the ultimate goal and it's really hard to win it when you don't get into the playoffs. Some might say it's impossible.

 

[InjuredChoker]

Ah, so we're going to pretend "rebuild on the fly" isn't a Holland thing? The past couple seasons he's said "just make the playoffs and anything can happen". No one thinks this team is a legit Cup contender and a big part of the reason why is because of the words and actions of the guy running the organization.

i have no idea where you got that. i think it's very clear that rebuild on the fly is holland thing. that doesn't mean he's satisfied with just making the playoffs. 'just make the playoffs and anything can happen' doesn't mean he's fine with just making the playoffs. i personally disagree with the idea that every team in playoffs have a good chance at the cup.

they aren't cup contender because they lack young elite talent. you only get (well, mostly) by sucking and drafting high. best way to get that young elite talent is to tear this **** down. which isn't really option at the moment.

all of our best players are around 35. when was last time team that had 3 of it's best players in mid-30s and won the cup? only elite center that has been moved in a while is seguin and he wasn't available for wings. only elite dman that has moved is suter and he wasn't coming to play for red wings unless the franchise was relocated close to his home.

he might have been (and in my opinion) was too passive and gunshy when euro twins were younger and we still had lidström and likes but now, there is no move to be made to get this team on level of chicago or kings. he could've improved the roster and has had lot of chances to do so but there is no GM in the league that can stop aging of their players.

 

[Henkka]

they aren't cup contender because they lack young elite talent. you only get (well, mostly) by sucking and drafting high. best way to get that young elite talent is to tear this **** down. which isn't really option at the moment.

all of our best players are around 35. when was last time team that had 3 of it's best players in mid-30s and won the cup?

2002 Detroit Red Wings.

 

[Electric Eric]

2002 Detroit Red Wings.

Pre cap and post cap era are two very different beasts.

 

[InjuredChoker]

2002 Detroit Red Wings.

yes, it's been quite a while, though our top players were slightly younger. feds and lidström were 32. kronwall is 34, same with zett and dats is 36.

this current team doesn't have 9 HOFers on it either.

 

[TimoneX]

D, Z, & K can still pull their weight if all 3 remained healthy through a tough cup run. I also believe a healthy Howard can get it done.

The question is...are they surrounded by enough talent to get the job done?

Perhaps the forward lines are good enough...or nearly good enough in a post cap world, but the back end almost certainly is not. You replace Ericsson on the top pairing with a solid top pairing Dman and I don't have a really tough time seeing the Wings as a serious contender for the cup.

Dunno what Babs thinks about the progress of this on-the-fly rebuild, but I sure wouldn't want to leave Detroit just when things seem to be coming together.

 

[InjuredChoker]

D, Z, & K can still pull their weight if all 3 remained healthy through a tough cup run. I also believe a healthy Howard can get it done.

The question is...are they surrounded by enough talent to get the job done?

Perhaps the forward lines are good enough...or nearly good enough in a post cap world, but the back end almost certainly is not. You replace Ericsson on the top pairing with a solid top pairing Dman and I don't have a really tough time seeing the Wings as a serious contender for the cup.

i think it's possible this team is serious cup contender if they were able to get legit top pairing guy (and preferably one sniper up front) but the big 3 would have to stay healthy and not run out of gas, howie be healthy and play up to his best etc.

 

[TimoneX]

I worry about Kronwall. He's the guy Detroit absolutely cannot afford to lose and he's the guy that's difficult to rest down the stretch. Thank goodness for DDK & Q eating solid minutes on the 2nd pairing this year.

...now if KH could just conjure up a solid partner for Kronner.

 

[Marotte Marauder]

That's just it... which organization is run better than the Wings? Where can Babcock go that is an upgrade with the organization's commitment to doing things the right way? Which organization is classier? Which organization will he go to that will give him less frustration with the roster, as many here think?

4 hours and 16 minutes West on I94

 

[Henkka]

4 hours and 16 minutes West on I94

Their head coach is signed through 2016-17 season.

So maybe Babcock will want to get new ideas as an assistant, right?

 

[TimoneX]

4 hours and 16 minutes West on I94

Think coach Q will mind? Those massive contracts handed out to the top 2 gunslingers have the potential to really handcuff management going forward.

 

[Henkka]

Think coach Q will mind? Those massive contracts handed out to the top 2 gunslingers have the potential to really handcuff management going forward.

Yep. hawks will be like 2009-10 Wings after this season. Top caphits from success will hit hard.

 

[odin1981]

4 hours and 16 minutes West on I94

Not after this year tops. Probably not even this year. While Chicago did show the building block for team success post cap they no longer have cheap rfa deals to milk any longer. Keith is on a sweetheart deal but Toews and Kane aren't. 25-6 million starting next year on 3 players doesn't leave enough room for depth elsewhere. There window closes this year. They also are worn down this year from the past 3 years of conference final hockey or better.

You need to have up and coming core to be on rfa deals to contend now given the cap. Only way you have enough room to fit what you need under the cap. We are positioned well in that aspect Dats is 7.5, Z is 6, and Kronner is just under 5. That is cheap as **** for us to fit in players. Tats is 2.75, Nyquist will be 3-3.5. We are positioned cap wise to be able to put in work very soon.

 

[The Zermanator]

Not after this year tops. Probably not even this year. While Chicago did show the building block for team success post cap they no longer have cheap rfa deals to milk any longer. Keith is on a sweetheart deal but Toews and Kane aren't. 25-6 million starting next year on 3 players doesn't leave enough room for depth elsewhere. There window closes this year. They also are worn down this year from the past 3 years of conference final hockey or better.

You need to have up and coming core to be on rfa deals to contend now given the cap. Only way you have enough room to fit what you need under the cap. We are positioned well in that aspect Dats is 7.5, Z is 6, and Kronner is just under 5. That is cheap as **** for us to fit in players. Tats is 2.75, Nyquist will be 3-3.5. We are positioned cap wise to be able to put in work very soon.

I can't see Nyquist being that cheap after sustaining his level of play for nearly 2 full seasons by the time his contract's up. Probablt more like 4.5-5 territory.

 

[Marotte Marauder]

Their head coach is signed through 2016-17 season.

So what? It's only money and doesn't count against the cap. Who's closer to Babcock than Scottie?

 

[TimoneX]

Very seriously doubt coach Q's job is in any danger at all at this point...one year removed from a 2nd cup win in 4 years and in the hunt for a 3rd. Chicago is probably one of the few teams not falling over themselves to nab Babcock.

Toronto? Yeah right. Anyone see Babs signing on to that 3 ring circus?

Boston? ...seems unlikely given their awful resource management the last decade or so.

Babs is a perfectionist...he wants to win. I don't see where he can go that gives him a better chance than where he is now.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

4 hours and 16 minutes West on I94

He said better.

Besides, a Hawks fan should know it would be ridiculous for a GM to get rid of a perfectly capable coach in Q (who has won 2 cups with Chicago by the way) just for a coach who may not even be better.