GDT: Avs vs Habs in Quebec City Friday 26th September 7.30 PM EDT/5.30 PM MDT ‎( link#67)

[hoserthehorrible]

Three bad plays and a few other breakdowns marred a fairly dominant performance by the Avs. That's how I see it.

I also don't get how effort comes into the equation at all. There's no evidence to say that the Avs showed a lack of effort. From what I saw the core top players (Duchene, Mack, Landeskog) played well and tried hard to do so. EJ wasn't that great but had two points, and was trying as well. The only players who can be blamed for lack of effort right now are Iginla and ROR, both of whom seem disinterested. And again I have no evidence that it's a lack of effort or just poor chemistry (or getting old)

All three Montreal goals were a result of lack of focus, lack of fire, lack of intensity, lack of effort, lack of whatever word you'd like to plug in. There were other situations where the Montreal AHLers showed more focus, fire, intensity, effort, or whatever other word you'd like to plug in.

I'm not saying the Avs players were dogging it but they didn't play with enough focus, intensity, fire, effort, or whatever word you'd like to plug in to beat a bunch of AHLers.

As I said earlier, it looked to me like the Avs vets were simply getting their work in and trying to get ready for games that matter. I'm fine with that but I'm not going to sit here and say that they looked and played great and they played with focus, intensity, fire, or whatever word you'd like to plug in. They didn't and Roy even acknowledged that himself.

 

[Freudian]

The biggest difference in the second half was that Avs defense lost focus. They started ignoring their assignments and turned the puck over a lot. They gambled with bad pinches too. I know Stuart got burned on the outside once but other than that he was the most solid defender last night.

Losing against a bunch of kids is not the worst thing that could have happened. Four losses in a row means Roy will not let the team practice poorly the rest of the pre-season. He'll demand focus.

 

[hoserthehorrible]

The biggest difference in the second half was that Avs defense lost focus. They started ignoring their assignments and turned the puck over a lot. They gambled with bad pinches too. I know Stuart got burned on the outside once but other than that he was the most solid defender last night.

Losing against a bunch of kids is not the worst thing that could have happened. Four losses in a row means Roy will not let the team practice poorly the rest of the pre-season. He'll demand focus.

I agree about the defensive mistakes in the 2nd half of the game.

I would add that a number of forwards were having a hard time with the breakout pass along the side boards as well. Multiple times forwards got the initial breakout pass and they turned it over rather than finding an open man for a pass or chippiing the puck out of the D-zone if they didn't have time. The Tanguay turnover was probably the most obvious.

The fact that Roy is coach, and not Sacco, leads me to believe that the initial a lack of focus/intensity in a few of the pre-season games will not continue for too long. I agree that Roy will demand more from the players and it might even be a good thing that this is happening now so that the team realizes that there's no substitute for hard work/focus/intensity. Even the most skilled teams have to play with focus/intensity/whatever you want to call it to be successful on a regular basis.

 

[StayAtHomeAv]

On the Montreal second goal O'Reilly was in front of the net watching Elliott try to cover two men and just standing there. When the Montreal player got the puck and proceeded to skate around the net and wrap the puck around for a goal O'Reilly half attempted to stick check the guy after it was too late.

O'Reilly was covering the 2nd guy down low who was standing on the left side of the net (after the initial pass down low of course). If O'Reilly immediately reacted to the guy going around the net he would have left that 2nd guy wide open for a quick pass and tip in. He was a tad slow, but there was a good reason he could not sell out in stopping the reach around immediately.

And the reason Elliott was covering 2 guys was because Wilson didn't switch when he should have. When that Montreal player got that puck at the blueline everyone was scrambling to get into position and cover the proper people. Duchene had to leave his man to cover the puck up at the point. Wilson was in the best position to switch to Duchene's guy who was down low and fairly close to the net, but instead he stayed with his guy who was moving away from the net and going to the top of the circle on that side of the play, the opposite side that Wilson was coming from. This forced RoR to cover Duchene's initial man but he was slow in locating him and not in the best position to do so. He was in a good spot to cover Wilson's guy though. Wilson has got to be more aware and see that there are 2 guys down low, that his man is getting far away from the net and that RoR could have easily switched to his man.

This play is a great example of Elliott's and Wilson's weaknesses. Wilson obviously had the poor communication/switching. But Elliott was the main cause. First, he can't control a pass in the neutral zone. Granted it wasn't a good pass, but Elliott was just straight pushed away from the puck, and not by some big open ice hit. This is how they got the puck leading to that goal. Then they dump the puck along the boards to try and gain entry into the Ozone. Elliott is quick to react and the first one to the puck. Despite having a lit bit of room he just instantly slings the puck behind the net and around the boards. He has got to tell he has time to do more than that and that the numbers were in our favor along that side of the boards. We had nobody on that side of the ice and they were able to keep the puck inside the blueline, which led to everyone needing to scramble and pick up different guys. Then when the guy starts to go around the net, he actually pushes off Elliott to get the seperation to easily move around the net like that.

 

[Lonewolfe2015]

I gotta be honest with you guys, anyone upset with this game is crazy. Through 2 periods I'm pretty happy with most of the players. Stuart got walked once, Briere has been fairly invisible aside one chance, the 4th line is useless for the most part... but the puck possession, forechecking, positioning has all improved dramatically. That may be due to the competition faced, but I can't be upset with the team through 2 periods. They had 3-4 chances just miss that would have made this a blowout.

I really like Winchester, he's going to become a favorite of mine I think. He just plays the game the exact way you want from your 4th liners.

And I haven't seen any problems from Elliott through 2 periods. Nothing special, but he did make a pretty nice stretch pass for the breakout.

 

[Greene Giant]

http://www.habseyesontheprize.com/b...nacity-on-display-analysis-breaking-down-film

Wilson looks out of play on pretty much every image...

 

[Foppa2118]

I think a big part of how we're viewing these performances is that we're actually getting to see pre-season games for once. We've never had that opportunity before, aside from those who have been able to attend all the games.

Last night the Habs B squad was clearly hungrier. They were out to win jobs and prove themselves in an underdog role. The Avs were clearly in pre-season mode. They were working on their timing, their passes, their chemistry, everything.

Just like the previous game, it took them a while to get into the game. It didn't have anything to do with anything, not even shaking up the lines, it was just a matter of shaking off the rust, and mentally getting into a game that didn't mean anything.

Roy and Landy are right to say they're a little concerned, because they can't be apathetic to losing four games in a row. However we as fans know that it's not that big a deal. Just like during the regular season when the team is playing like crap when it does matter, and the coach tries to keep things positive for his team by downplaying the importance, when we as fans know that it is a big deal.

They have things to work on, and they know that. The structure of this pre-season has been very different than previous ones, with the split squad game, and the game in Quebec City where all the vets wanted to play. There's not a whole lot to read into any of it.

The best thing that I took out of the last game is I thought Varly looked just as square and sharp as he did all of last year, and this was his first pre-season game. He had all the excuses in the world to have an off night. That's very encouraging, because we need him as close to the level he was at last year as possible.

 

[freeboy]

Wilson actually stole a puck, through a check and looked like he had a clue, so with respect I disagree

 

[tigervixxxen]

With Wilson it's not that he does everything wrong it's that with him you never know what you are going to get, he might be decent or horrible but it's a roll of the dice.

 

[Balthazar]

Wilson looks out of play.

Worth posting the pics here. Look at this play:

Now Elliott has to take Wilson's spot:

Look at this:

Goal:

Unlike some of you, even before seeing these pics I didn't think that Elliott was that bad yesterday. He has to play with Wilson which puts him in trouble all the time.

 

[Taak19]

I thought Elliott played well enough considering Wilson was his partner. There was the one play however where instead of playing it safe he wrapped it around the boards to a Hab which definitely cost a goal.

 

[StayAtHomeAv]

Unlike some of you, even before seeing these pics I didn't think that Elliott was that bad yesterday. He has to play with Wilson which puts him in trouble all the time.

Wilson didn't cause Elliott to turn the puck over twice right before that goal. Wilson didn't cause him to be separated from the puck with a slight breeze. Wilson didn't make him wrap that pass around the boards when he had time to think and make a smart play. Wilson wasn't the reason the player going behind the net got separation from Elliott from a small shove.

Freeboy, are you talking about that one play? Or just in general? Because Wilson had no clue who he should have switched to on that play.

 

[hoserthehorrible]

Goal:

Unlike some of you, even before seeing these pics I didn't think that Elliott was that bad yesterday. He has to play with Wilson which puts him in trouble all the time.

The last picture illustrates exactly what I was talking about with O'Reilly.

What exactly is O'Reilly doing there? He was "watching" Elliott battle and get beat by two players. O'Reilly isn't helping Elliott and he sure as heck isn't covering anyone else. The Montreal player gets the puck on the post, skates around the net, and wraps the puck in for a goal. All this time O'Reilly watches it happen and does nothing but a very late and feeble stick check.

I get this is pre-season, and the win-loss record doesn't reflect what will happen in the regular season, and getting their work in and getting ready for the regular season might be the right thing to do. However, anyone that says the Avs played a good game Friday and played with passion and focus is way off base. They didn't. Their coach, some of their players, and even the great and powerful Peter McNab said the same thing.

 

[hoserthehorrible]

O'Reilly was covering the 2nd guy down low who was standing on the left side of the net (after the initial pass down low of course). If O'Reilly immediately reacted to the guy going around the net he would have left that 2nd guy wide open for a quick pass and tip in. He was a tad slow, but there was a good reason he could not sell out in stopping the reach around immediately.

And the reason Elliott was covering 2 guys was because Wilson didn't switch when he should have. When that Montreal player got that puck at the blueline everyone was scrambling to get into position and cover the proper people. Duchene had to leave his man to cover the puck up at the point. Wilson was in the best position to switch to Duchene's guy who was down low and fairly close to the net, but instead he stayed with his guy who was moving away from the net and going to the top of the circle on that side of the play, the opposite side that Wilson was coming from. This forced RoR to cover Duchene's initial man but he was slow in locating him and not in the best position to do so. He was in a good spot to cover Wilson's guy though. Wilson has got to be more aware and see that there are 2 guys down low, that his man is getting far away from the net and that RoR could have easily switched to his man.

This play is a great example of Elliott's and Wilson's weaknesses. Wilson obviously had the poor communication/switching. But Elliott was the main cause. First, he can't control a pass in the neutral zone. Granted it wasn't a good pass, but Elliott was just straight pushed away from the puck, and not by some big open ice hit. This is how they got the puck leading to that goal. Then they dump the puck along the boards to try and gain entry into the Ozone. Elliott is quick to react and the first one to the puck. Despite having a lit bit of room he just instantly slings the puck behind the net and around the boards. He has got to tell he has time to do more than that and that the numbers were in our favor along that side of the boards. We had nobody on that side of the ice and they were able to keep the puck inside the blueline, which led to everyone needing to scramble and pick up different guys. Then when the guy starts to go around the net, he actually pushes off Elliott to get the seperation to easily move around the net like that.

You might want to take a peak at the pictures posted on this play. O'Reilly was covering nobody. Two Montreal players were battling Elliott for the puck and O'Reilly stood there and watched; just like the picture showed.

Secak skated all the way around the net while O'Reilly continued to stand there and watch. Finally Secak wrapped the puck in for a goal and O'Reilly gave a feeble attempt at a stick check well after it was too late.

I get this is pre-season, and that's fine, but anyone pretending that the Avs played a quality focused game of hockey and played with intensity and passion are kidding themselves. They didn't and their coach and players acknowledged it.

 

[Avs71]

EJ hit on Desharnais in case anyone missed it:



Him and Brad Stuart might make the blue line pretty hard to cross.

 

[Lonewolfe2015]

Wilson didn't cause Elliott to turn the puck over twice right before that goal. Wilson didn't cause him to be separated from the puck with a slight breeze. Wilson didn't make him wrap that pass around the boards when he had time to think and make a smart play. Wilson wasn't the reason the player going behind the net got separation from Elliott from a small shove.

Freeboy, are you talking about that one play? Or just in general? Because Wilson had no clue who he should have switched to on that play.

I love this forum sometimes.

Elliott was pretty good in his role. Wilson was not. I watched the game yesterday, so it's still fresh. Other than one mistake from him (being an inexperienced rookie), he made some solid plays offensively. Mostly passes which resulted in scoring opportunities, but it was a surprisingly solid conservative effort from him.

Something tells me the fact he is getting another game is due to that, whereas Wilson is sitting.

The last picture illustrates exactly what I was talking about with O'Reilly.

What exactly is O'Reilly doing there? He was "watching" Elliott battle and get beat by two players. O'Reilly isn't helping Elliott and he sure as heck isn't covering anyone else. The Montreal player gets the puck on the post, skates around the net, and wraps the puck in for a goal. All this time O'Reilly watches it happen and does nothing but a very late and feeble stick check.

I get this is pre-season, and the win-loss record doesn't reflect what will happen in the regular season, and getting their work in and getting ready for the regular season might be the right thing to do. However, anyone that says the Avs played a good game Friday and played with passion and focus is way off base. They didn't. Their coach, some of their players, and even the great and powerful Peter McNab said the same thing.

ROR is covering the slot. If he steps in, the Habs guy could go forehand-backhand and be wide open in the slot since Elliott is committed down low.

 

[Foppa2118]

Wilson actually stole a puck, through a check and looked like he had a clue, so with respect I disagree

It's not that he doesn't occasionally make good plays, it's that he occasionally makes bad plays and is a liability. Apart from the goal against where he missed his hip check and then got lost in his coverage shown in the photos, there are a couple plays back to back in the highlight video that show this.

0:30 - Totally mis judges the speed of the Habs player about to take the pass, and has to turn the wrong way just to keep from getting completely beat on the play. Gives up a very good scoring chance off the rush because of this.

0:42 - Doesn't see the guy behind him on the PK, or just makes a bad decision and takes himself totally out of position. He went from where he should have been in position to keep the guy with the puck from walking to the net for a shot, and being able to block a pass, to not being able to do either and caught on the wrong side of two guys.

These are the kind of mental errors that he makes, that he can't seem to correct. He just seems to lose his focus too often and gets out of position.



http://video.nhl.com/videocenter/console?hlg=20142015,1,44&lang=en


[NHL]2014010044-X-h[/NHL]

 

[Balthazar]

Wilson didn't cause Elliott to turn the puck over twice right before that goal.

Yes he did.

Wilson didn't make him wrap that pass around the boards

Yes he did

Wilson wasn't the reason the player going behind the net got separation from Elliott from a small shove.

Yes he was! Had Wilson been in position the whole time NOTHING of these things would have happened, including the goal.

 

[Balthazar]

The last picture illustrates exactly what I was talking about with O'Reilly.

What exactly is O'Reilly doing there?

He's a winger protecting the front of the net for rebounds while one dman is fighting for the puck and the other is skating around.

 

[hoserthehorrible]

ROR is covering the slot. If he steps in, the Habs guy could go forehand-backhand and be wide open in the slot since Elliott is committed down low.

In general covering a spot of ice isn't all that useful when a teammate is outnumbered 2v1 down low and one of the guys has the puck and wraps it around the net for a goal. Defensive hockey 101 dictates that you always try and prevent a goal rather than just sit and watch and say "hey, I had my spot covered".

Not only that but the Avs play a man to man defense so just "covering the slot" is not O'Reilly's assignment unless his man happens to be in the slot which he wasn't.

 

[cgf]

Many defensive hockey 101 must be really tricky class that requires tremendous mental flexibility considering it teaches so many contradicting schools of thought in a single semester.

 

[hoserthehorrible]

Many defensive hockey 101 must be really tricky class that requires tremendous mental flexibility considering it teaches so many contradicting schools of thought in a single semester.

So you're saying you don't understand defensive zone coverage?

 

[StayAtHomeAv]

You might want to take a peak at the pictures posted on this play. O'Reilly was covering nobody. Two Montreal players were battling Elliott for the puck and O'Reilly stood there and watched; just like the picture showed.

Secak skated all the way around the net while O'Reilly continued to stand there and watch. Finally Secak wrapped the puck in for a goal and O'Reilly gave a feeble attempt at a stick check well after it was too late.

I get this is pre-season, and that's fine, but anyone pretending that the Avs played a quality focused game of hockey and played with intensity and passion are kidding themselves. They didn't and their coach and players acknowledged it.

I have dvr. Tons better than a couple pictures. O'Reilly is covering the front of the net and Hensick once the battle in front of the net took place and there was an opportunity to go for the wrap around goal. When the pass was initially made down low RoR was just watching (wasn't really watching, just slow in finding the uncovered man that Wilson should have picked up), but once the puck squirted along the side of the net he was covering the left side of the net as Elliott took the puck until Secak had fully committed to going around the net. But like I said, he was a tad slow in reacting still. You are acting as if he just wasn't trying at all and should have been over to that post way sooner. But he could not immediately sell out to that side.

I love this forum sometimes.

Elliott was pretty good in his role. Wilson was not. I watched the game yesterday, so it's still fresh. Other than one mistake from him (being an inexperienced rookie), he made some solid plays offensively. Mostly passes which resulted in scoring opportunities, but it was a surprisingly solid conservative effort from him.

Something tells me the fact he is getting another game is due to that, whereas Wilson is sitting.



ROR is covering the slot. If he steps in, the Habs guy could go forehand-backhand and be wide open in the slot since Elliott is committed down low.

I'm just giving an analysis of the one play. It seems to be a good example of his apparent weaknesses (soft, awareness).

Yes he did.



Yes he did



Yes he was! Had Wilson been in position the whole time NOTHING of these things would have happened, including the goal.

Well, if you want to play this game, had Elliott not turned the puck over (which had nothing to do with Wilson) in the neutral zone NONE of these things would have happened, including the goal. Elliott's first turnover is what started it all.

I however won't blame Elliott for everything that happened afterwards. Elliott didnt cause Wilson to be really aggressive and go for a hit. Elliott didn't cause Wilson to just chase one player around instead of switching when he should have. Just like I'm not going to blame Wilson for Elliott rushing and making a bad decision with the puck or getting pushed away from the puck fairly easily. Both deserve their fair share of blame for how that play went down, along with RoR and Varly to a lesser extent for being too slow to react.

 

[hoserthehorrible]

I have dvr. Tons better than a couple pictures. O'Reilly is covering the front of the net and Hensick once the battle in front of the net took place and there was an opportunity to go for the wrap around goal. When the pass was initially made down low RoR was just watching (wasn't really watching, just slow in finding the uncovered man that Wilson should have picked up), but once the puck squirted along the side of the net he was covering the left side of the net as Elliott took the puck until Secak had fully committed to going around the net. But like I said, he was a tad slow in reacting still. You are acting as if he just wasn't trying at all and should have been over to that post way sooner. But he could not immediately sell out to that side.

Yeah, DVRs aren't all that new and most people have them now. Me included.

O'Reilly wasn't covering anyone. He wasn't physically competing for position in front of the net. He wasn't battling for the loose puck. Heck, he wasn't even stick checking a man. O'Reilly was standing in the slot watching Elliott get outnumbered 2v1 and when Elliott got beat he continued to watch the guy wrap the puck around for a goal. To say he was a tad late is like saying the Titanic had a minor leak.

 

[Lonewolfe2015]

Yeah, DVRs aren't all that new and most people have them now. Me included.

O'Reilly wasn't covering anyone. He wasn't physically competing for position in front of the net. He wasn't battling for the loose puck. Heck, he wasn't even stick checking a man. O'Reilly was standing in the slot watching Elliott get outnumbered 2v1 and when Elliott got beat he continued to watch the guy wrap the puck around for a goal. To say he was a tad late is like saying the Titanic had a minor leak.

So you're saying you don't understand defensive zone coverage?

I love how this comes right before the prior quote.

So because ROR didn't over-commit himself to a man, thereby leaving the slot wide open for any Canadien player that got himself open, ROR doesn't understand defensive zone coverage? He picked the higher percentage spot to defend, two guys down low can't score. One of them passes out front or steps out front and they can score.