Post-Game Talk: Avs vs CBJ Lose 2-1: The "We Got 'Sacco'd'" Edition

[Lonewolfe2015]

Jon Cooper, come on down!

 

[AslanRH]

I love how people just throw out 'We can't afford to keep all 3 of them' without actually looking at the numbers. I'm not posting the break down anymore. I've done it like 3 different times... YES WE CAN AFFORD TO KEEP ALL THREE OF THEM.

The only way we can't is if O'Reilly actually will NOT sign a 5 year 25M deal and wants his 6.5M Q/O each year, ON TOP OF Stastny thinking he is still worth 6.6M.

If Stastny will take something like 5.5 AAV and O'Reilly will take 5 AAV, we absolutely can afford all three and ADD FREE-AGENTS to our roster.

Center depth is one of the most important things for a team to have in order to compete in the regular season and the playoffs. O'Reilly at his current salary isn't getting us a better defender than we can find in free-agency next year and neither is Stastny.

Every team that has won the cup has been extremely deep at center, we would be idiots to dump one of them if we can keep all three for 16-17M AAV total.

Agree, we may not be able to go get FA signings like what Perry will command, but its easily doable. First step, we need not to have a bottom pairing that costs 4+m/yr (Zanon+O'Brien).

 

[Freudian]

Jon Cooper, come on down!

- You spelled my name wrong.

 

[AslanRH]

I'd love it if Philly knee-jerks and cut ties with their coach this year and the Avs signed him up.

Sorry, day dreaming there.

 

[anleva]

I think we can't underestimate the impact of coaching on how much we suck.

Toronto is 8th in the league right now with these guys in their top 5 TOI/G:
Phaneuf
Kostka
Gunnarsson
Bozak
Liles

The Sens keep winning and having a +8 goal differential despite all their injury woes.

Sacco must go.

And not be replaced by Quinn or Chynoweth or Army

Maybe the Blackhawks front office will get pissed at Q when he loses his first game in regulation and the Avs can bring him back!

 

[Avs For Life]

Maybe the Blackhawks front office will get pissed at Q when he loses his first game in regulation and the Avs can bring him back!

Next to letting Drury go...that was the DUMBEST move the Avs have made...

Q was and is a hell of a coach...

 

[ABasin]

So. O'R isn't in game shape after all.

Tough for him to come back like that, but at least the rest of the team was there with him.

Varlamov showed up at least.

 

[the_fan]

I love how people just throw out 'We can't afford to keep all 3 of them' without actually looking at the numbers. I'm not posting the break down anymore. I've done it like 3 different times... YES WE CAN AFFORD TO KEEP ALL THREE OF THEM.

The only way we can't is if O'Reilly actually will NOT sign a 5 year 25M deal and wants his 6.5M Q/O each year, ON TOP OF Stastny thinking he is still worth 6.6M.

If Stastny will take something like 5.5 AAV and O'Reilly will take 5 AAV, we absolutely can afford all three and ADD FREE-AGENTS to our roster.

Center depth is one of the most important things for a team to have in order to compete in the regular season and the playoffs. O'Reilly at his current salary isn't getting us a better defender than we can find in free-agency next year and neither is Stastny.

Every team that has won the cup has been extremely deep at center, we would be idiots to dump one of them if we can keep all three for 16-17M AAV total.

But you do realize that if either Stastny or O'Reilly move down to 3rd line ( I'm not counting Duchene because there is no way in hell he goes down to 3rd line) but If one of the other two drops to 3rd line it wont benefit the team, it would actually have a negative effect because you lose offense by putting those guys on the 3rd line checking role with less talented players.


And also can you name a recent cup winning team that had a 3rd line center making 6.6 or 6.5 mill per year?

 

[The Kingslayer]

I'd love it if Philly knee-jerks and cut ties with their coach this year and the Avs signed him up.

Sorry, day dreaming there.

even if he was fired we wouldn't hire him. Carlyle was there for the taking. Look wat he has done in Toronto so far . Real coaches can turn crap into bling

 

[Avelanche]

I think we can't underestimate the impact of coaching on how much we suck.

Toronto is 8th in the league right now with these guys in their top 5 TOI/G:
Phaneuf
Kostka
Gunnarsson
Bozak
Liles

The Sens keep winning and having a +8 goal differential despite all their injury woes.

Sacco must go.

And not be replaced by Quinn or Chynoweth or Army

You're looking in a difference conference with a much weaker bottom 8. I could post Minny, LA's, Detroit's and SJ top 5 and ask how we even have a shot. The issue is still primarily the roster. We are two wins behind the Blues with a game in hand, how can people be so upset.

I don't disagree Sacco should go for a more experience coach but he has been fine this year. He has been fine every year TBH, but fine doesn't cut it.

 

[ghostofweezman]

does O'Reilly skate as if he's hurt his ankle?

It's probably buckling from the added weight in his wallet.

I know this is late. Had to wait for activation.

 

[RockLobster]

wow dude even raises his stick when he scored....

Be reasonable, he was raising his stick and made a motion of anger/disappointment.

 

[CobraAcesS]

But you do realize that if either Stastny or O'Reilly move down to 3rd line ( I'm not counting Duchene because there is no way in hell he goes down to 3rd line) but If one of the other two drops to 3rd line it wont benefit the team, it would actually have a negative effect because you lose offense by putting those guys on the 3rd line checking role with less talented players.


And also can you name a recent cup winning team that had a 3rd line center making 6.6 or 6.5 mill per year?

Pitt offered Staal 6M per year... and already had two centers making 8.7M each. We can afford 17M down the middle... It's not like Stastny and O'Reilly can't play with bottom 6 guys either.

I'm saying we can still have enough cap space to fill out the top three lines, with Downie back we only need one more top 6 winger in free-agency this off-season in order to do it as well.

McGinn - Duchene - Parenteau

Landeskog - O'Reilly - Downie

Jones - Stastny - Horton? <-- it's just an example I used to add 5M in salary. There are other cheaper options as well on LW or RW.

I've done the math in adding raises and few free-agents to fill the holes. It works if Duchene signs a similar contract to Tavares and Stastny is willing to take a cut down to 5.5M

O'Reilly's cap hit is 5M, not 6.5... We could extend him for 5x5 (25M) and keep his cap hit down a bit. Hes eluded to wanting a longer term deal for security as well. If one of them has to play with lesser players but we know that if put into a top 6 role they can give us more offense. Then you pay for it regardless... If injuries hit then the team does not skip a beat.

Ice time isn't an issue, if the top 9 are that heavy they are not going to see much ice time.

Agree, we may not be able to go get FA signings like what Perry will command, but its easily doable. First step, we need not to have a bottom pairing that costs 4+m/yr (Zanon+O'Brien).

Rotfl yeah... We actually have over 7M tied up in four 6/7th defenders. Zannon (2.25), O'Byrne (1.8), O'Brien (2M), Hunwick (1.7M)

That's 7.75M in plugs... Hell two top 4 defenders at 8M would greatly improve our defense... (4.5 for Streit & 3.5 for Smid? Just examples..)

Streit/Smid - EJ <-- depending on whether you think EJ needs a Defensive or Offensive oriented partner.

Smid/Streit - Wilson

Hejda - Barrie

Do we need to keep one of our plug defenders as a 7th? We could... (Hunwick does not complain about riding the pine?) But we would also have Siemens, Elliott, and Gaunce in the minors as well.

 

[Frenchy]

It's probably buckling from the added weight in his wallet.

I know this is late. Had to wait for activation.

First post ? Welcome aboard

 

[Avs For Life]

It's probably buckling from the added weight in his wallet.

I know this is late. Had to wait for activation.

O'byrne

 

[ghostofweezman]

First post ? Welcome aboard

Thanks Frenchy, but I am actually a returning poster from a few years ago. I needed an outlet for my feelings about the O'Money signing.

 

[Foppa2118]

Thanks Frenchy, but I am actually a returning poster from a few years ago. I needed an outlet for my feelings about the O'Money signing.

Ah, weezman I remember that name.

 

[dahrougem2]

You're looking in a difference conference with a much weaker bottom 8. I could post Minny, LA's, Detroit's and SJ top 5 and ask how we even have a shot. The issue is still primarily the roster. We are two wins behind the Blues with a game in hand, how can people be so upset.

I don't disagree Sacco should go for a more experience coach but he has been fine this year. He has been fine every year TBH, but fine doesn't cut it.

He has not done a fine job, he's done a horrible job; just look at the Avs' record vs the NW division over the last 3 and 1/2 years, its disgusting. The non-stop shuffling of the lines, the benchings, not-making adjustments, not getting the best out of his players. We all know that this defense is horrible but when healthy this team hasn't done anything either

 

[landesberg]

He has not done a fine job, he's done a horrible job; just look at the Avs' record vs the NW division over the last 3 and 1/2 years, its disgusting. The non-stop shuffling of the lines, the benchings, not-making adjustments, not getting the best out of his players. We all know that this defense is horrible but when healthy this team hasn't done anything either

Just the overall lack of consistency from this team is a good enough example that Sacco doesn't know what he's doing.

Every time the Avalanche have a good game, it's usually due to a great individual effort by one player (Duchene, Landeskog, Stastny, etc.). Every time the Avalanche have a bad game, there are no adjustments during the game, and no moments throughout the game where you can see that there is a gameplan at work.

One night we'll play amazing, next night we'll play terribly. We should have carried a lot of momentum coming into today's game after the big comeback in Calgary, and the addition of O'Reilly.

What do we get? The flattest performance in recent memory. No offense, no defense, not one great chance on the powerplay, and we end up having the game decided by the referees. The only thing we can take away from this game is that Varlamov looks good against the BJs.

This is something you get out of bad coaches.

 

[Congo Jack]

G2P

RECsguy?

 

[AvsFanRCN]

RECsguy?

naw if it was there would have been mention of giguere and how he is the saviour of mankind and how the avs are stupid for not playing him for every game

 

[Mant*]

Ryan O'Reilly Scores in Return to Avs Lineup
Against own team

If this had happened in denver... a rain of debris would have chased him right off the ice.

 

[Mant*]

Next to letting Drury go...that was the DUMBEST move the Avs have made...

Q was and is a hell of a coach...

Yet it's exactly what people around here wanted at the time, since their idea of fixing the team is "fire the coach" 100% of the time.

 

[Hennessy]

I'm notoriously lukewarm when it comes to coaches - I tend not to hate a guy or want him gone, mostly because so often you're not fixing a problem so much as patching it. I thought firing Hartley was a mistake. I didn't mind Granato in his first incarnation with the team - despite the results, and, while I was a bit confused as to why he was brought back, I was hoping he'd find redemption. Am a little sick of Sacco and think he's had his run, but am not peeing my pants waiting for him to get fired. Same with Q. I wasn't on board with him getting canned, but it wasn't working out, either. People around here absolutely hated him, with his goalie management the main complaint (which, in hindsight, is petty considering what he had to work with there, and how much success he's had juggling Niemi-Halak or Crawford-Emery). Which brings me to my point - while it may be easy to regret booting Quenneville, it doesn't mean he'd have had any more success with this team now than what he had before. Some players respond better to some coaches than others. And remember, it wasn't all that long ago that Q was almost fired in Chicago, too.

 

[DanishAvsfan]

I live in Denmark which is central European time (Greenwich + 1). I also have a very strict schedule due to work and family obligations.That means that I don't get to watch a lot of games. Pretty much the only games I can watch are games broadcasted during the day in NA. The point here is that I do not have a lot of evidence to go by in my statements so I do not feel comfortable with having a lot of opinions. Nevertheless, I will say that based on what I have seen, I don't think that Sacco is getting the best out of the team. I also do not think that management is good at getting players that is good at playing a style of playing which is entertaining and which is likely to bringing in a winning culture - not at this point at any rate. If yesterday's game is any indication then I think it is fair to say that out team lacks players who are good at playing a passing game, and who are good at keeping possession of the puck. According to what I observed (and to what I have read on this and others sites) several of our players are actually bad at passing the puck and controlling the puck such as O'Byrne, Hunwick, Jones and Zanon. Moreover, these same players a given a lot of playing time. I just don't see how you become a good team at the highest level if you cannot pass the puck and control the puck with regularity at this level. I don't care what people say about the speed of our transition game, our aggressive forecheck, and the emphasis on getting tougher and blocking shots. Combine that with the dump and chase tactics that I saw deployed last night, which was TOTALLY nullified by an AHL calibre line-up I don't see much reason to be optimistic at this point. No way. Moreover, I was actually quite pissed last night for having spent 3 hours watching a product that sucked so hard. I remember that back in the day when we had a perennial cup contender we were also told that the Avs was a fast up-tempo team with a great transition game. It work at times, especially in 00-01, but has it really worked that well since? I don't think so. If any of you watched the Wing vs. the Hawks last night you wold have seen a COMPLETELY different level of chemistry between players, and a much higher level of performance and entertainment because they were able to connect with each other consistently. Really, I do not know a lot about hockey, the closest thing to hockey I ever played was floorball, so I maybe completely off, but I still believe that the Avs have a problem with how they are building their roster and the brand of play they are trying promote.