Confirmed with Link: Avs trade Downie for Max Talbot part II

[BoxOfChocolates]

While the overreaction to the negative consequences this trade might have are annoying, the trashing of Downie and how good he is, and insistence that Talbot was all they could get for him, just to make ourselves feel better about a bad trade, are even worse.

Where is anybody saying that?

 

[Foppa2118]

Where is anybody saying that?

The entire first thread consisted of people asking others why they thought they could get more for Downie than Talbot, and acted as if he was a ticking time bomb for injuries and no one wanted him, and he wasn't really that good offensively. Just on the last page he was called a third liner.

It's this "the sky is falling" commentary that's truly annoying and ironically become the new lame overreaction. Anything remotely critical and people have this knee jerk reaction to say "the sky is falling." It's become even more simple minded then believing the team is doomed because of one trade, or because of a few losses.

 

[The Kingslayer]

Talbot is like the left handed Jeff Shantz.

 

[Nihiliste]

While the overreaction to the negative consequences this trade might have are annoying, the trashing of Downie and how good he is, and insistence that Talbot was all they could get for him, just to make ourselves feel better about a bad trade, are even worse.

Agreed. Blind, condescending optimism and dismissal of all criticism isn't any more useful to a discussion than overwhelming negativity.

 

[Freudian]

Wait a second, so Downie is the one that has been mis-characterized here and not "barely a fourth liner" Talbot?

Most fans love to think they are more informed and smarter than the people involved, so we get the complaining about how we could have gotten more after every trade. That's fine. But get it out of your system please. Complaining about it in every GDT for eight games is getting very annoying. Getting worked up over a relatively minor trade is silly. It's not going to significantly alter the direction of Avs season in any way.

 

[Foppa2118]

Wait a second, so Downie is the one that has been mis-characterized here and not "barely a fourth liner" Talbot?

Most fans love to think they are more informed and smarter than the people involved, so we get the complaining about how we could have gotten more after every trade. That's fine. But get it out of your system please. Complaining about it in every GDT for eight games is getting very annoying. Getting worked up over a relatively minor trade is silly. It's not going to significantly alter the direction of Avs season in any way.

This is kind of what I mean Freud. Why does simply talking about it equate with complaining about it? Not everyone is complaining about it like it's the end of the world. Why does the topic have to be off limits?

Talbot is not playing like anything more than a 4th liner. Before the trade, everyone pretty much agreed Downie was a capable top six guy that could contribute offense. Now many people want to act as if he wasn't all that good just to make themselves feel better about losing him.

 

[Tommy Shelby]

This trade is the new EJ trade.

 

[Freudian]

This is kind of what I mean Freud. Why does simply talking about it equate with complaining about it? Not everyone is complaining about it like it's the end of the world. Why does the topic have to be off limits?

Talbot is not playing like anything more than a 4th liner. Before the trade, everyone pretty much agreed Downie was a capable top six guy that could contribute offense. Now many people want to act as if he wasn't all that good just to make themselves feel better about losing him.

How is the topic off limits? It's clearly not. It's been beaten to death several times over.

Last GDT if I search for Talbot I get 71 hits. If I search for Landeskog I get 31 hits and Stastny get 37. The attention you guys give Talbot is so disproportionate to what he is to this team. He's a defensive third liner/PK guy playing 15 minute a game. This was a his eighth game as an Av. About time to stop obsessing about the trade and him?

 

[TheStranger]

I didn't mind this trade when it happened, I really don't like it now.

Not sure it has to do with Talbot really, but he has not been good. I thought he would provide some energy, but haven't seen any from him. The puck dies on his stick almost every time.

We've also went from one of the best penalty kills in the league before Talbot, to allowing 1-2 PPG per game since. I haven't looked at stats to see if it's his unit on the ice for the goals though.

 

[Freudian]

We've also went from one of the best penalty kills in the league before Talbot, to allowing 1-2 PPG per game since. I haven't looked at stats to see if it's his unit on the ice for the goals though.

PPG against Avs since the trade.

MTL: O'Reilly, Cliche
NSH: Mitchell, McLeod
NSH: Mitchell, McLeod
STL: O'Reilly, Cliche
STL: Talbot, Cliche
STL: Cliche
FLO: Mitchell, McGinn

 

[TheStranger]

PPG against Avs since the trade.

MTL: O'Reilly, Cliche
NSH: Mitchell, McLeod
NSH: Mitchell, McLeod
STL: O'Reilly, Cliche
STL: Talbot, Cliche
STL: Cliche
FLO: Mitchell, McGinn

Ah so it's Mitchell and Cliche that are the problem

 

[henchman21]

Talbot hasn't been abysmal since he has been here, but he hasn't done a single thing to quiet his doubters either. People are always going to be upset about this trade because the Avs traded a tweener 2nd/3rd line player that doesn't look lost at all on a top 6 line for long stretches of time and adds a lot of grit for a 3rd/4th line PK specialist. The numbers will never be in favor of Talbot in any manner except SH TOI. Talbot's true worth comes out near and in the playoffs. If the Avs make the playoffs, we will be happy to have him... until that time people will complain about losing Downie.

IMO what has hurt the most is that Downie would have helped the team a ton with the Tanguay injury when it comes to scoring depth. Talbot isn't being relied upon to do that, and really he shouldn't be either. He just doesn't have that level of skill.

 

[henchman21]

Ah so it's Mitchell and Cliche that are the problem

Big surprise.

 

[Foppa2118]

How is the topic off limits? It's clearly not. It's been beaten to death several times over.

Last GDT if I search for Talbot I get 71 hits. If I search for Landeskog I get 31 hits and Stastny get 37. The attention you guys give Talbot is so disproportionate to what he is to this team. He's a defensive third liner/PK guy playing 15 minute a game. This was a his eighth game as an Av. About time to stop obsessing about the trade and him?

Again though, I'm simply mentioning a few aspects of it, and you're lumping me in with a group that you think has beaten it to death. I've barely posted in this thread, or talked about the trade the last week or so.

If Talbot is about the least visible player in the offensive zone his first handful of games, misses 2/3 of a wide open net when the team NEEDS a big goal, and takes a few penalties to boot, why would it be shocking that people would bring up the trade, and who cares if they do?

Just like every issue, there's some people with fairly ridiculous negative overreactions, and there's people that want to talk about it certain aspects of it without having someone tell them they think "the sky is falling." Just seems like there's been a lot of that going on, not necessarily by you per se, I havne't paid close enough attention to who's saying it, I just keep seeing people say the sky is falling, or that people think the Avs suck now, or they're gonna have a lottery pick.

In reality there's a good deal of people who simply didn't think they got good value in the Downie trade, don't particularly like that they gave up Downie, don't think Talbot brings a great deal to the table, and simply want to point out some of the mistakes the Avs have been making on the ice during their three losses.

 

[5280]

Talbot reminds me of Greg Mauldin.

 

[Avs_19]

Talbot is a good 4th liner who can fill in on the 3rd line without really hurting you. But he's not going to help you that much in the offensive zone if he's on the 3rd line. That's not his game. Anyone who expected more from him needs to lower their expectations.

 

[cgf]

This is one Avs trade that I'm honestly not too fond of. But we trade a 2/3 tweener pest with offensive skills who racked up the penalties and injuries for a 3/4 guy with defensive skills, who had a lot of experience and PK skills.

While saving over 2.5M in cap space for next season. Not the biggest fan of the trade but there's some logic to it and honestly the value's off by like a 3rd round pick, and all things considered that's not a very big deal because Downie wasn't going to get us the top 3 LHD we need.

 

[Freudian]

I'm more surprised Roy didn't want to keep Downie beyond this year. I would have thought he liked that crazy fire. I guess it might have been a little bit too much even for Patrick.

 

[raistlin76]

I'm more surprised Roy didn't want to keep Downie beyond this year. I would have thought he liked that crazy fire. I guess it might have been a little bit too much even for Patrick.

They never said they didn't wanted him there beyond this year. Sakis said Downie wouldn't stay here. Maybe he wanted to go back East. We don't know it.

 

[cgf]

I'm more surprised Roy didn't want to keep Downie beyond this year. I would have thought he liked that crazy fire. I guess it might have been a little bit too much even for Patrick.

Oh me to, that's why I'm disappointed, but maybe Patty was worried about making the money work with staz, ryan and semyon to extend and a top 3 veteran LHD that he's looking for.

 

[BoxOfChocolates]

They never said they didn't wanted him there beyond this year. Sakis said Downie wouldn't stay here. Maybe he wanted to go back East. We don't know it.

There were a couple sources stating that the Avs weren't planning on re-signing him.

 

[cgf]

They never said they didn't wanted him there beyond this year. Sakis said Downie wouldn't stay here. Maybe he wanted to go back East. We don't know it.

That's possible to, but I think it's more the worry about devoting over 4M in capspace to a guy who is as unreliable as Downie, cause while I love the little ball of crazy, it leads to him not being on the ice a lot, and do you really wanna be spending more than we're paying PAP, Hejda or EJ with all of that risk attached? Somebody's gunna give Downie crazy money, but they'll be clenching their balls every year of that deal.

 

[AslanRH]

While the overreaction to the negative consequences this trade might have are annoying, the trashing of Downie and how good he is, and insistence that Talbot was all they could get for him, just to make ourselves feel better about a bad trade, are even worse.

I'm sure he could have gotten more, but maybe not from Philly, and maybe not the player he wanted in Talbot.

Hopefully us Avs fans have learned from the EJ trade its best not to judge the results too early on. I'll wait til at least the summer before getting too upset.

 

[m0ngr31]

This trade is the new EJ trade.

We'd have to get something worthwhile back for this to compare to that

 

[Nihiliste]

Talbot hasn't been abysmal since he has been here, but he hasn't done a single thing to quiet his doubters either. People are always going to be upset about this trade because the Avs traded a tweener 2nd/3rd line player that doesn't look lost at all on a top 6 line for long stretches of time and adds a lot of grit for a 3rd/4th line PK specialist. The numbers will never be in favor of Talbot in any manner except SH TOI. Talbot's true worth comes out near and in the playoffs. If the Avs make the playoffs, we will be happy to have him... until that time people will complain about losing Downie.

IMO what has hurt the most is that Downie would have helped the team a ton with the Tanguay injury when it comes to scoring depth. Talbot isn't being relied upon to do that, and really he shouldn't be either. He just doesn't have that level of skill.

Downie has been awesome in the playoffs too though