Rumor: AVS Proposals/Rumors/Free Agents & Roster Moves (related topics)

[AslanRH]

Sticking to my guns... Siemens will be our #7/8 next season

 

[Drury_Sakic]

Can't see Hishon bringing anything back

Avs should trade him for an equally frustrated prospect, ala the Gormley-Elliott trade. There has to be another prospect out there in a similar boat to take a chance on at the deadline. Either that, or as others have mentioned, get a vet on an expiring contract from a tanking team that would put him into their everyday roster to take a chance on him. (Leafs would be a perfect candidate for a Hishon trade, as they would give him a solid chance for 15-20 games in the NHL after the deadline as their roster is going to be full of AHLers if they do what we all think they will at the deadline and sell off those UFAs they signed on one year deals last summer)

 

[CB Joe]

I agree with most of what you say.

I don't know if the Avs will re-sign Redmond, but I can see them keeping one of the depth defenseman(Redmond, Guenin, Bodnarchuk). I do get the sense that Roy is frustrated with the defensive depth and might just clean house all together.

I'm not huge on the Avs having both Zadorov and Bigras in the top 6 next season. They both need some more seasoning, and injuries to other defenseman could put them in a position to be exposed badly.. But at the same time I think both are ready to move on from the AHL. I could definitely see the Avs trading one of them (if I had to guess I would say Anaheim).

I disagree about Noreau staying though. He would make more money playing in Europe. He never got his shot to play in the NHL despite a lot of injuries this season. They Avs would rather claim a guy off waivers and go to 50 contracts. It's pretty clear he's not going to get a shot in Colorado.

Thanks for the info on the college guys. I know next to nothing in that area.

 

[Tweaky]

On the subject of best defensemen , and their performance in the playoffs, guess which is which:

PPG | +/- |CF% 5v5
0.65 |+34|53.46
0.67 |-6|44.66
0.67 | +3|50.00
0.47 |-2|47.82
0.66| +1|51.34
0.68 |-17|55.92
0.66 | -6|53.84
0.69 | +1|50.49​

Choices are Barrie, Boyle, Doughty, Seth Jones, Karlsson, Keith, and Subban and Weber. Stats are playoffs only, 05/06 to present. Many other things go into a full analysis to compare players, but this is a start. And yes, not all of those guys should be in the conversation, but I wanted some red herrings. Also have to consider the teams they play on.

At this point, I would take any of the top 5 over any of the D we have on our roster, obviously with adds...but not sure adding how much in trade. Hard to put them in order... Keith is relatively cheap, but is 32 with 7 more years on a buyout unfriendly contract. PK is expensive but young and signed for 6 more years. Doughty only has 3 more years until a huge payday, and Karlsson the same, and both are well paid now. Weber is Keith, but higher paid for longer.

PK being the only one rumored to be 'available', I would be hard pressed to find a deal for the Avs to get him that both sides would be happy with. Barrie+ or EJ+ might work...but the plus would be too much IMO.

 

[Drury_Sakic]

I disagree about Noreau staying though. He would make more money playing in Europe. He never got his shot to play in the NHL despite a lot of injuries this season. They Avs would rather claim a guy off waivers and go to 50 contracts. It's pretty clear he's not going to get a shot in Colorado.

Maybe...but this is also his last chance to make the NHL in all likelihood...and given that the Avs are going to be breaking in 2-3 rookies into the NHL (Siemens, Zadorov, Bigras), almost certainly cleaning house on most of the existing AHL depth (some combo of Guenin, Redmond, Gormley, Bodnarchuk, and possibly Holden), Stuart will never play again, and the next wave of prospects in the system being another year from AHL time.... if I was Noreau's agent, I would be advising him to tough it out one more year and to see what happens.

 

[CB Joe]

There is about a .1% chance Subban is traded. If Bergevin is still patiently standing behind his losing coach, what would it take for him to reach the point where he would deal his franchise defenseman? It's just not going to happen.

 

[CB Joe]

Maybe...but this is also his last chance to make the NHL in all likelihood...and given that the Avs are going to be breaking in 2-3 rookies into the NHL (Siemens, Zadorov, Bigras), almost certainly cleaning house on most of the existing AHL depth (some combo of Guenin, Redmond, Gormley, Bodnarchuk, and possibly Holden), Stuart will never play again, and the next wave of prospects in the system being another year from AHL time.... if I was Noreau's agent, I would be advising him to tough it out one more year and to see what happens.

Good point. But I think it would depend heavily on what Roy does with the defenseman ahead of him. If Roy found a way not to play Noreau this season I think he would find a way to acquire more depth for next season so the possibility of Noreau ever reaching the NHL is slim.

 

[Flanagan]

On the subject of best defensemen , and their performance in the playoffs, guess which is which:

Choices are Barrie, Boyle, Doughty, Seth Jones, Karlsson, Keith, and Subban and Weber.

Barrie has 2 points in 3 games and he definitely wasn't a -6, so he's the third one on that list. Weber has never done much in the playoffs offensively, so I'm pretty sure he is the 0.47 PPG guy. I can't see anyone but Keith being a +34...

Here are my guesses:

PPG | +/- |CF% 5v5 | Player
0.65 |+34|53.46 | Keith
0.67 |-6|44.66 | Jones
0.67 | +3|50.00 | Barrie
0.47 |-2|47.82 | Weber
0.66| +1|51.34 | Doughty
0.68 |-17|55.92 | Boyle
0.66 | -6|53.84 | Subban
0.69 | +1|50.49 | Karlsson​

 

[InjuredChoker]

On the subject of best defensemen , and their performance in the playoffs, guess which is which:

PPG | +/- |CF% 5v5
0.65 |+34|53.46
0.67 |-6|44.66
0.67 | +3|50.00
0.47 |-2|47.82
0.66| +1|51.34
0.68 |-17|55.92
0.66 | -6|53.84
0.69 | +1|50.49​

Choices are Barrie, Boyle, Doughty, Seth Jones, Karlsson, Keith, and Subban and Weber. Stats are playoffs only, 05/06 to present. Many other things go into a full analysis to compare players, but this is a start. And yes, not all of those guys should be in the conversation, but I wanted some red herrings. Also have to consider the teams they play on.

At this point, I would take any of the top 5 over any of the D we have on our roster, obviously with adds...but not sure adding how much in trade. Hard to put them in order... Keith is relatively cheap, but is 32 with 7 more years on a buyout unfriendly contract. PK is expensive but young and signed for 6 more years. Doughty only has 3 more years until a huge payday, and Karlsson the same, and both are well paid now. Weber is Keith, but higher paid for longer.

PK being the only one rumored to be 'available', I would be hard pressed to find a deal for the Avs to get him that both sides would be happy with. Barrie+ or EJ+ might work...but the plus would be too much IMO.

there isn't enough information there to tell much (unless it's just for a guessing game and nothing else). performance relative to team would tell more than raw stats.

without checking, i'd assume guys like subban and barrie don't have that good corsi but have good relative numbers, for example.

the first guy is easy, it has to be keith. +/-. and the -17 guy has to be dan boyle. jones has to be 2nd from the top. only one series, played hawks, played well but got little help.

rest are tougher. i think the guy with the lowest ppg is weber. others i remember producing well, or would think they have better corsi and barrie can't have ppg like that because he has only played 3 games. wich means he has to have ppg of 0.33, 0.67 or 1 (can't remember which og those but i'm certain it wasn't 0 or more than 1). so that leaves us with only one choice. 3rd from the top.

how to place, doughty, karlsson and subban i have no idea. guy with the -6 has the best corsi so i'd assume that's the kings and not habs or sens. so he's doughty.

so

keith
jones
barrie
weber
karlsson/subban
boyle
doughty
karlsson/subban

the ones that has to be karlsson/subban are so similar that i can't tell difference. let's say karlsson is at the bottom.

 

[Tweaky]

there isn't enough information there to tell much (unless it's just for a guessing game and nothing else). performance relative to team would tell more than raw stats.

Mainly just a guessing game, and to show that these guys all look pretty similar on paper. I had not thought of relative stats...would have been better, you are right.


They are in order of jersey number.

 

[ABasin]

Also 50-50 if both Bigras AND Zadorov make the NHL full time...though decent odds one gets traded for another NHL D man if they don't plan to keep them both on the NHL club.

I'm confused. What's the rationale here for trading Bigras or Zadorov for another defenseman if one of them isn't quite ready for the NHL?

 

[cgf]

I'm confused. What's the rationale here for trading Bigras or Zadorov for another defenseman if one of them isn't quite ready for the NHL?

They no longer have the new car smell.

 

[tigervixxxen]

On the subject of AHL D, I do think Siemens will be back. There's Butcher and Boikov who could get signed too. And probably another vet in the Redmond/Noreau mold if it isn't them. I thought Noreau would go to Europe too but his wife is pregnant, due this summer, might not be the best time to relocate to Europe. They seem to like the 1 vet to developing kid ratio down there. I've said this before that I'm not sure Siemens yet qualifies as vet in that equation.

 

[cgf]

If he's still in SA, I'd like to see a Siemens-Wood pairing next year. Let Geertsen play with Redmond/Noreau/NewGuy and Butcher/Boikov play with Clark.

 

[Drury_Sakic]

I'm confused. What's the rationale here for trading Bigras or Zadorov for another defenseman if one of them isn't quite ready for the NHL?

I think there is a decent chance that a few legit top 3 D man will be on the market for trade given the salary cap not growing, even moreso if the cap somehow shrinks, and the Avs will at least consider trading Zadorov or Bigras in a deal for one of them if they don't think they are both NHL ready next year...or even if they think they are both ready for the NHL they might make a hockey trade if the right player is on the market. I fully expect one or two really shocking trades this summer of a player or two we never thought would be on the market.

Also, I do think there is SOME consideration that Zadorov might be a flight risk to Russia if he is not a full time NHLer next year...so if he is not going to be on the roster on opening day, the Avs might trade him for a more proven player from a team that is more willing to play him in the NHL. (a team in rebuilding mode)

There is also a small build of pressure on Sakic and Roy to turn the growth into winning...so at some point they might make a save your job trade...not trading one for a rental per say, but for a more proven late 20s something D man.

 

[ABasin]

I think there is a decent chance that a few legit top 3 D man will be on the market for trade given the salary cap not growing, even moreso if the cap somehow shrinks, and the Avs will at least consider trading Zadorov or Bigras in a deal for one of them if they don't think they are both NHL ready next year...or even if they think they are both ready for the NHL they might make a hockey trade if the right player is on the market. I fully expect one or two really shocking trades this summer of a player or two we never thought would be on the market.

Also, I do think there is SOME consideration that Zadorov might be a flight risk to Russia if he is not a full time NHLer next year...so if he is not going to be on the roster on opening day, the Avs might trade him for a more proven player from a team that is more willing to play him in the NHL. (a team in rebuilding mode)

Interesting points to ponder. Thanks.

I would point out however, that the Avs are in rebuilding mode.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

Guys Redmond won't be back. Everyone's talking like the Avs would like to keep him to play in the AHL but you realize it's up to both sides? He will sign with Toronto or some other team who will give him a legit shot at playing in the NHL.

 

[S E P H]

There is normally that one team who goes crazy and sort of tries to blow it up every season. Last year it was the Maples Leafs and this year it is the Canadiens. Unlike the Maple Leafs, the Habs have some interesting pieces that are rumoured to be available. Of course they won't be trading core players like Price, Galchenyuk, Gallagher, Pacioretty, Subban (if they aren't stupid), and maybe you could add Plekanec's to that list.

But there are good players that could be potentially had for cheap, as Habs could be willing to trade them just to get rid of them or their contracts. These players could include Eller, Beaulieu, Smith-Pelly, Weise, and Andrighetto. I understand that people are very divided on Lars, personally I think he's a good player, but if he's available for a cheap price, you go after him. Good big secondary scorer that's very good on the penatly kill. I've never been a Beaulieu fan, still to this day I think he was drafted way too high, but I think he could become a very safe #4 defenseman. If Habs are willing to get rid of him for a prospect like Geertsen/Siemens+, that might be too good to turn down. I also don't think DPS or Andrighetto would go for too much more either, but both could become good players for Avs depth issues.

 

[Balthazar]

I've never been a Beaulieu fan, still to this day I think he was drafted way too high, but I think he could become a very safe #4 defenseman. If Habs are willing to get rid of him for a prospect like Geertsen/Siemens+

I could see Siemens thrown in a Beaulieu trade but the trade won't be around Siemens so it's going to take a serious "+" here. Beaulieu is actual 2nd pairing material while Siemens is a bust with hopes of becoming 3rd pairing one day. Also, Beaulieu is only a year older. They are pretty far apart value-wise.

For some reasons Weise appears to be the type of player that could end up here but I'd be very cautious with him. I don't think he's nearly as good as his stats show and will ask for too much money for his talent level.

 

[CB Joe]

Habs won't blow it up. They'll sell off a few depth pieces if they can. Habs know they'll be a playoff team next season with Price. There is no need to burn it all down.

 

[Avs_19]

I highly doubt Subban is going anywhere. People always overreact when it's a star played involved. If there's a coach/player issue there, you fire Therrien and keep your top 5 NHL defenseman.

 

[The Mars Volchenkov]

Zadorov has gone down to SA with a great attitude. I call BS on the flight risk stuff.

Enough with trading with Zadorov or Bigras. Did you not hear Sakic talk? Top 4 defensemen don't get traded. We've been looking for one for years and can't get one. The only way to get them is to develop them or trade for them while they're young. 16 of the top 20 scoring D were drafted and developed by the team they're playing for.

 

[Foppa2118]

Guys Redmond won't be back. Everyone's talking like the Avs would like to keep him to play in the AHL but you realize it's up to both sides? He will sign with Toronto or some other team who will give him a legit shot at playing in the NHL.

I'd be shocked if Redmond was back. He'll look for an opportunity elsewhere, and the Avs won't have much interest in him returning.

Guenin I could see returning on a two way deal. I'd have no problem with that. Give him the C down there, and make it clear he's not gonna be one of the first couple callups. He can test the market to look for other opportunities, but in the end I think sticking with the organization that knows him will probably be the best. Unless he wants to move oversees, where he can make a better living.

 

[Avalanche2133]

Just wondering Avs fans thoughts but JT Compher is tearing it up in Michigan this year. 20 year old LW.

I know Zadorov, Bigras, Rantanen should not be traded but I think Compher has some good value.

I wonder what him and say a top 5 protected 1st gets us?

A top 6 winger? A good D man?

 

[McMetal]

Zadorov has gone down to SA with a great attitude. I call BS on the flight risk stuff.

Enough with trading with Zadorov or Bigras. Did you not hear Sakic talk? Top 4 defensemen don't get traded. We've been looking for one for years and can't get one. The only way to get them is to develop them or trade for them while they're young. 16 of the top 20 scoring D were drafted and developed by the team they're playing for.

Preach, brother.