Rumor: AVS Proposals/Rumors/Free Agents & Roster Moves (related topics)

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

Calling me ignorant because you think I don't know the situation is a really fragile argument. Personally I consider 99.8% of the world as idiots so I could careless if majority of "fanbases" are on Drouin's side. I'm not saying that Yzerman/Cooper get any benefit of doubt, they made a player request a trade. That speaks for itself, but you're going to sit there and honestly tell me that Drouin deserved to play in the NHL after he was draft, deserved to play 82 games last year, deserves to play 82 games this year as well, deserves to get first line minutes, and deserves to get a letter as well?

He was under developed physically the first year which is why they sent him back to juniors. Wasn't NHL ready last year, but still played 70 effin NHL games. And played 19 games this year before publicly announcing that he has asked for a trade. And he only has 3 points in 7 games in the AHL, so it's not like he's heating up like Rantanen down there either. As I said, he hasn't done anything to deserve to get anything.

Come on man, its common sense. The median salary for Petroleum Engineering is 130,280 US Dollars based on studies from 2012. Do you think after finishing your degree for petroleum engineering with absolutely zero experience, but a great GPA you deserve to start at 130K? No ****in' way, you start at 70 to 80,000 and work your way up to 130,000 when you get enough experience. Drouin is basing all his nonsense from his 3rd overall position and how he deserves to have certain accommodations. This is how people become spoiled and childish.

Okay, a few thing. This isn't about dollars and cents. So you can't really argue that. This is about a player who got drafted and feels he's not put in a position to succeed. If a corporation hires you but not for what you applied for after a few chances you meet expectations but with growing pains, they send you back to **** duties. After a while you get fed up with the lack of opportunity, is it not within your right to move to a new organization? He owes them nothing, just as they don't owe him 1st line minutes.

I don't really buy that you have to "earn the right to ask for a trade".

Most fans are delusional... the whole the team comes first has gotten people thinking irrationally. I liked that one guy on the main board who said to send him to the worst team in the NHL out of spite.

 

[CobraAcesS]

Calling me ignorant because you think I don't know the situation is a really fragile argument. Personally I consider 99.8% of the world as idiots so I could careless if majority of "fanbases" are on Drouin's side. I'm not saying that Yzerman/Cooper get any benefit of doubt, they made a player request a trade. That speaks for itself, but you're going to sit there and honestly tell me that Drouin deserved to play in the NHL after he was draft, deserved to play 82 games last year, deserves to play 82 games this year as well, deserves to get first line minutes, and deserves to get a letter as well?

He was under developed physically the first year which is why they sent him back to juniors. Wasn't NHL ready last year, but still played 70 effin NHL games. And played 19 games this year before publicly announcing that he has asked for a trade. And he only has 3 points in 7 games in the AHL, so it's not like he's heating up like Rantanen down there either. As I said, he hasn't done anything to deserve to get anything.

Come on man, its common sense. The median salary for Petroleum Engineering is 130,280 US Dollars based on studies from 2012. Do you think after finishing your degree for petroleum engineering with absolutely zero experience, but a great GPA you deserve to start at 130K? No ****in' way, you start at 70 to 80,000 and work your way up to 130,000 when you get enough experience. Drouin is basing all his nonsense from his 3rd overall position and how he deserves to have certain accommodations. This is how people become spoiled and childish.

Never said any of that, zero

I'm a Tampa Bay season ticket holder, and I've followed this fairly close in tune with live on ice viewings of his play and how the coach has used or did not use him. I don't agree with how hes been handled, that simple.

Cooper is a nicer version or John Tortorella IMO. Hes not a good coach for creative players. If you don't play within a rigid structure you're done, and there does not seem to be much communication about it. Players do not describe in depth what has been told to them by the coaching staff even remotely the way our players do when asked about what Roy tells them.

If you really look at Tampa's game, you can see that pure skill and creativity is not necessarily a strength of that team. They play north south, and have almost no idea what the hell to do with the puck when they have it in the offensive zone for more than 15 seconds on a cycle. I've watched that team cycle the puck for a minute thirty and never get a scoring chance out of it on a damn nightly basis.

There is a reason why Cooper likes certain types of players and others will likely never work under him. Stamkos has went from an all world talent to a guy that actually looks hockey dumb inside Cooper's system.

 

[frog]

There are two possible scenarios that I can think off regarding this situation:

1)Drouin has lost all trust with the lightning organization and fears that they will waste him away in the AHL until he loses his value/potential to be an impact player

or

2)Drouin is a spoiled little brat

 

[S E P H]

Okay, a few thing. This isn't about dollars and cents. So you can't really argue that. This is about a player who got drafted and feels he's not put in a position to succeed. If a corporation hires you but not for what you applied for after a few chances you meet expectations but with growing pains, they send you back to **** duties. After a while you get fed up with the lack of opportunity, is it not within your right to move to a new organization? He owes them nothing, just as they don't owe him 1st line minutes.

The thing you're not understanding is this isn't a 7 year, Stanley Cup Finals UFA Zach Parise pro the corporation is hiring. They are hiring a fantastic GPA recent college graduate with absolutely ZERO job experience. You might not be ready to perform tasks in petroleum engineering, but you sit there take notes, practice, ask questions, and remain to be patience. One day not too far in the decent future, you will follow the same path as your experienced workmate, Namestnikov. And along that path, you not only become a better person knowing patience, you'll also get recognition and promotions resulting in a fatter paycheque.

Though you're also right he owes nothing to the corporation, the corporation are the ones who put the managers to guide you. If you don't like it, then you can leave and go to another corporation. Again you're right on about this, but don't expect to get any love from your work buddies as you're coming across as a quitter. Moreover, the managers might be stupid and bash you when you make a mistake, but you're quitting the corporation having absolutely zero rights or experience to demand already managerial money or tasks to start off with. Then quitting on the corporation shows to the rest of the world you have some issues that can't be solved . The two most important subjects in job interviews are "why you left your last job" and "that you're able to coup with anything". Companies and corporations hire people and promote people who have leadership qualities and can withstand stressful environments. Quitting because you dislike the managers in the previous job carries baggage to other corporations and see these two important points; resulting in a less likely scenario of another company wanting you.

And you can't argue about calling him a "star", what type of Patrick Kane star qualities has he accomplished so far? Please list them, thank you.

Never said any of that, zero

I'm a Tampa Bay season ticket holder, and I've followed this fairly close in tune with live on ice viewings of his play and how the coach has used or did not use him. I don't agree with how hes been handled, that simple.

Cooper is a nicer version or John Tortorella IMO. Hes not a good coach for creative players. If you don't play within a rigid structure you're done, and there does not seem to be much communication about it. Players do not describe in depth what has been told to them by the coaching staff even remotely the way our players do when asked about what Roy tells them.

If you really look at Tampa's game, you can see that pure skill and creativity is not necessarily a strength of that team. They play north south, and have almost no idea what the hell to do with the puck when they have it in the offensive zone for more than 15 seconds on a cycle. I've watched that team cycle the puck for a minute thirty and never get a scoring chance out of it on a damn nightly basis.

There is a reason why Cooper likes certain types of players and others will likely never work under him. Stamkos has went from an all world talent to a guy that actually looks hockey dumb inside Cooper's system.

This is the first I've seen this in bold, majority of the fanbases you're alluding to, see Cooper as a "fantastic players coach". I don't think he's amazing, but I highly disagree with your comments of him lacking creativity. Sorry, but I can't see a team with that much offensive power actually being held back by Cooper. I could see him play a very North to South type of style, but that's like 99.9% of the NHL. And him demanding a trade, he's going to go to places like Habs, Blues, or Wild who are like the Kings and Queens and Inventors of North to South games. Picture Drouin with Hitchcock if it didn't work out with Cooper.

 

[AslanRH]

Okay, a few thing. This isn't about dollars and cents. So you can't really argue that. This is about a player who got drafted and feels he's not put in a position to succeed. If a corporation hires you but not for what you applied for after a few chances you meet expectations but with growing pains, they send you back to **** duties. After a while you get fed up with the lack of opportunity, is it not within your right to move to a new organization? He owes them nothing, just as they don't owe him 1st line minutes.

According to my work contract, no, at least not in the same industry. Especially if leaving before my contract is fulfilled.

Considering the "rights" as we call them that the teams have are essentially non-compete stipulations between teams, if a player is unhappy he can ask to be let go (traded or released) but the company/team can by right hold that player to fulfill his contract or prevent him from joining a competing company.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

The thing you're not understanding is this isn't a 7 year, Stanley Cup Finals UFA Zach Parise pro the corporation is hiring. They are hiring a fantastic GPA recent college graduate with absolutely ZERO job experience. You might not be ready to perform tasks in petroleum engineering, but you sit there take notes, practice, ask questions, and remain to be patience. One day not too far in the decent future, you will follow the same path as your experienced workmate, Namestnikov. And along that path, you not only become a better person knowing patience, you'll also get recognition and promotions resulting in a fatter paycheque.

Though you're also right he owes nothing to the corporation, the corporation are the ones who put the managers to guide you. If you don't like it, then you can leave and go to another corporation. Again you're right on about this, but don't expect to get any love from your work buddies as you're coming across as a quitter. Moreover, the managers might be stupid and bash you when you make a mistake, but you're quitting the corporation having absolutely zero rights or experience to demand already managerial money or tasks to start off with.

And you can't argue about calling him a "star", what type of Patrick Kane star qualities has he accomplished so far? Please list them, thank you.

He's not a 7 year vet and? Does this mean he has no rights? He just has shut up and accept the fact that his peers have all had better opportunities to succeed, just because?

You again brought up the $, this isn't about money he's going to get paid the SAME exact amount where ever he goes because of the ELC. All he wants to do is play in the NHL. If he things he has a better chance with a different team, what's the problem? Why must he put the team first at the risk of his career? He's not married to them. People act like they did him a great service by drafting him and he must stick by them no matter how crappy his life gets.

According to my work contract, no, at least not in the same industry. Especially if leaving before my contract is fulfilled.

Considering the "rights" as we call them that the teams have are essentially non-compete stipulations between teams, if a player is unhappy he can ask to be let go (traded or released) but the company/team can by right hold that player to fulfill his contract or prevent him from joining a competing company.

They can't send you to a different organization in say Winnipeg without your consent can they? So it's a 2way street in your field, just as in Drouin's.

 

[twostroke27]

I don't really buy that you have to "earn the right to ask for a trade".

I don't either. I was under contract at my last job with a no compete clause. I earned a pretty penny. The job no longer worked for me because of various management decisions. I asked them to waive my no compete. They refused. I left my job, went to a competing company and sought legal advice. I don't consider myself entitled or evil because I did it. My relationships degraded with my employer and it was time for me to move on. I'm more successful at my new job and I am excelling more than the old place because I'm happy now. I don't get why pro athletes can't do the same. It's their life.

 

[CobraAcesS]

The thing you're not understanding is this isn't a 7 year, Stanley Cup Finals UFA Zach Parise pro the corporation is hiring. They are hiring a fantastic GPA recent college graduate with absolutely ZERO job experience. You might not be ready to perform tasks in petroleum engineering, but you sit there take notes, practice, ask questions, and remain to be patience. One day not too far in the decent future, you will follow the same path as your experienced workmate, Namestnikov. And along that path, you not only become a better person knowing patience, you'll also get recognition and promotions resulting in a fatter paycheque.

Though you're also right he owes nothing to the corporation, the corporation are the ones who put the managers to guide you. If you don't like it, then you can leave and go to another corporation. Again you're right on about this, but don't expect to get any love from your work buddies as you're coming across as a quitter. Moreover, the managers might be stupid and bash you when you make a mistake, but you're quitting the corporation having absolutely zero rights or experience to demand already managerial money or tasks to start off with.

And you can't argue about calling him a "star", what type of Patrick Kane star qualities has he accomplished so far? Please list them, thank you.


This is the first I've seen this in bold, majority of the fanbases you're alluding to, see Cooper as a "fantastic players coach". I don't think he's amazing, but I highly disagree with your comments of him lacking creativity. Sorry, but I can't see a team with that much offensive power actually being held back by Cooper. I could see him play a very North to South type of style, but that's like 99.9% of the NHL. And him demanding a trade, he's going to go to places like Habs, Blues, or Wild who are like the Kings and Queens and Inventors of North to South games. Picture Drouin with Hitchcock if it didn't work out with Cooper.

That last part is a whole different conversation, and I agree.

On Tampa and their talent, there is a reason why good but not great players can come into that team and produce at a good clip. Players that rely mostly on hard work and not skill can fit into a very strict system IMO.

That team does not do much if it's not off of a structured rush, they have zero creativity in the offensive zone.

All of these special players they have are not expected stars, a lot of them were nobody before entering the league with Tampa. There is something to what Cooper is doing for the team, but I'm saying it does not work for players who need more freedom on the ice to be successful.

I also did not say Cooper lacked creativity SEPH, I was saying his system is very strict and does not lend to player creativity IMO.

 

[avsfan09]

You're looking at it in too much of Drouin's mindset. I agree he has the right to do whatever he thinks to help his career, but there is difference between having patience and asking for a trade and Drouin who's coming off as a spoiled brat. Again I bring up Namestnikov as a great example, he was sent down to the AHL, called up to NHL, and scratched as a good talented prospect. But he didn't ***** about it, he took it as experienced lessons learned, and now he's playing on the first line (I believe) with Stamkos. If there was one player who I personally think needs to ask for a trade, it would be Alexander Khokhlachyov from the Bruins. Yes there rumours of him being unsettled, but nothing publicly of him asking for a trade yet.

I understand what your saying but names Namestnikov was never on Drouins level of talent and needed more time than Drouin aswell. I've worked with awful bosses before and had to switch companys/jobs until I found an employer who not only gave me a shot but gave me challenging work which I enjoy and allowed me to work on my skills. Does this make me spoiled/arrogant or is it that I understood that I was wasting time with an employer who didn't teach and gave me no opportunities to develop and take on more responsibility. People only have a limited time on thus earth and they shouldn't waste it doing things or working for people who are bad fits or make them unhappy.

 

[AslanRH]

They can't send you to a different organization in say Winnipeg without your consent can they? So it's a 2way street in your field, just as in Drouin's.

If that was a right stipulated in my contract than yes they could.

e: to be fair, the NHL really is the organization and the teams are divisions within.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

If that was a right stipulated in my contract than yes they could.

... and you'd probably not have a non compete.

 

[AslanRH]

... and you'd probably not have a non compete.

I edited the metaphor a bit, but my company can waive their rights to my non-compete (and they have for many) and we have hired workers from competitors who have done the same.

 

[henchman21]

Bush league move by Drouin IMO. I'm not totally okay with a trade request but understand it. Stop playing because you are too good for the AHL... Really bad form.

 

[RoyIsALegend]

Bush league move by Drouin IMO. I'm not totally okay with a trade request but understand it. Stop playing because you are too good for the AHL... Really bad form.

I agree.

I'm not somebody who is totally against trade requests. I think it's healthy for an employee to voice a concern and look for an improvement for both himself and his employer. That's fine. Not reporting for duty though? That's BS.

Won't lie, I've soured on him. Would much prefer Rychel at a lower price, but I get the feeling he's not going anywhere. Playing regularly now, had 1+1 yesterday, playing a style Torts loves. Don't see him moving now either. Too bad.

 

[tigervixxxen]

Could have easily been Zadorov. Easily. They are in very similar boats. I know there was a twinge of concern here when he was sent down how he's take it. Obviously it went fine.

 

[AslanRH]

Gotta side with Drouin regarding the trade request, but not the abandoning his contract bit.

I was hesitant before about the Avs getting Drouin due to the value they may give up, but now I am hesitant for a much more concerning reason. After the struggles with ROR, I am not sure I'd want a player who is willing to go to these measures just to get his way.

 

[henchman21]

Could have easily been Zadorov. Easily. They are in very similar boats. I know there was a twinge of concern here when he was sent down how he's take it. Obviously it went fine.

Could have, but wasn't. Z went down and worked on his game. It is VERY rare that this happens, let alone for a 20 year old.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

I edited the metaphor a bit, but my company can waive their rights to my non-compete (and they have for many) and we have hired workers from competitors who have done the same.

Either way it's a 2 way street in either industry. Which is my point, if it's ok for one party it should be ok for all.

I agree.

I'm not somebody who is totally against trade requests. I think it's healthy for an employee to voice a concern and look for an improvement for both himself and his employer. That's fine. Not reporting for duty though? That's BS.

Won't lie, I've soured on him. Would much prefer Rychel at a lower price, but I get the feeling he's not going anywhere. Playing regularly now, had 1+1 yesterday, playing a style Torts loves. Don't see him moving now either. Too bad.

How about signing a contract overseas and then a offer sheet is that ok?

 

[AslanRH]

Either way it's a 2 way street in either industry. Which is my point, if it's ok for one party it should be ok for all.

But it isn't OK according to the contract he signed.

He is not honoring his contract currently, and that to me reflects on his character. While it doesn't matter if we think he should have more rights, that contract clearly stipulated the terms of his employment and he signed on the line.

 

[RoyIsALegend]

How about signing a contract overseas and then a offer sheet is that ok?

Do we really want to get into this?

Jonathan Drouin has a contract. Ryan O'Reilly did not have a contract and signed a contract elsewhere. Ryan O'Reilly always honored his contracts. Jonathan Drouin has not.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

But it isn't OK according to the contract he signed.

He is not honoring his contract currently, and that to me reflects on his character. While it doesn't matter if we think he should have more rights, that contract clearly stipulated the terms of his employment and he signed on the line.

Wait it's not OK to ask for trades according to his contract?

Do we really want to get into this?

Jonathan Drouin has a contract. Ryan O'Reilly did not have a contract and signed a contract elsewhere. Ryan O'Reilly always honored his contracts. Jonathan Drouin has not.

He signed a contract to play with Tampa and not some team in the AHL.

So, why is it ok to do one thing to get your way but not another? The avs owned ROR's rights in NA and he went turned his back on the organization by signing with the Flames. He handcuffed the organization into getting what he wants, you think if ROR got sent down or played on the 4th line after signing a contract he wouldn't have asked for a trade and refused to play until he got what he wanted?

 

[RoyIsALegend]

Sorry, you're reaching now and making up "what if" situations to accommodate your incorrect stance. Drouin signed a 2 way, entry level contract and is not honoring it. Not much else to discuss.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

Sorry, you're reaching now and making up "what if" situations to accommodate your incorrect stance. Drouin signed a 2 way, entry level contract and is not honoring it. Not much else to discuss.

Not much of a reach mate, he signed a 2 year contract in RUSSIA to make a point.

 

[henchman21]

He signed a contract to play with Tampa and not some team in the AHL.

No... he signed a contract that can be assigned to the AHL. All NHL contracts without a European assignment clause can be put in he AHL. Essentially with the CBA he has a contract valid in 3 leagues.

 

[AslanRH]

Wait it's not OK to ask for trades according to his contract?

I already stipulated his right to ask for a trade, and even said I supported it. I must have misunderstood your point because I was addressing his right to not fulfill his contract by refusing to play. I thought I was pretty clear in that though.