Rumor: AVS Proposals/Rumors/Free Agents & Roster Moves (related topics) ‎

Status
Not open for further replies.

agentblack

Registered User
Apr 11, 2011
13,224
756
New York City
This team really is too soft, we could do worse.

Yeah id imagine teams see us on the schedule and be like "oh cool the Avs"
Not like "aw s**t we gotta play these jerks"

Who knows maybe Greer will fill some of that pest/weasel/ ******* vibe we need

But Marchand is the worst type cause he can score, like Claude.
 

tigervixxxen

Optimism=Delusional
Jul 7, 2013
53,060
6,156
Denver
burgundy-review.com
And yeah just to clarify, I don't want grit just for the sake of having it, not to have a bunch of plugs. But get our talented and skill guys to not play like a bunch of little kids. I know it's way easier said than done. I know most guys are who they are and you can't just have a coach who tells them to play tough but if you add the right pieces and change the mindset a bit things can be different. Marchand isn't a plug, he can legitimately score in the NHL. Not that I think he'd ever sign here. But I'm not writing off guys because they might be a bit of a jerk on the ice. We can't have all saints on the team. Sometimes you have to play a little in the grey area. That's what it's more about, not signing a dude because he's gritty. Our guys need to fight for it more too, they need to fight back.
 

5280

To the window!
Jan 15, 2011
10,377
3,298
North Cackolacka
I just wanted to add my 2 cents on the Stastny thing. Someone broughtup Legwand as a comparable, but with the assumption that Stastny would would brought more back.

Legwand was traded at the deadline for Calle Jarnkrok (B+ prospect, #41 via THN at the time), Patrick Eaves (pending UFA 5th liner, with time in the AHL that year) and a conditional 2nd/3rd round pick (DET made playoffs, so it was a 2nd). This was a deadline trade for a pending UFA, so the price was slightly lower than it would have been before the season. But he was making $4.5M that season, significantly less than Stastny's $6.6M, in addition to it being mitigated by the partial season number-wrangling for cap stuff (total cap hit for Legwand for the new team worked out to $1.152M, just 17.5% of Stastny's had he been traded in summer).

In 12/13 one of the players had 24pts in 40 games, and the other had 25pts in 48 games. In 11/12, both had 53 points, but one had 1 fewer game. Explain to me why the price would have been so much different? Age is the only thing I can come up with, but compared to previous seasons, it seemed at the time that age was catching Stastny just as quickly as it was Legwand. Cap hit strongly favors Legwand, which in my mind counters the full vs. partial season. I cannot see Stastny garnering much more that a solid 2nd+B+C; and most likely...exactly what Legwand got, so figure Detroit's pick. Pick would have been for 2013 draft, so figure Pracey would have taken...Detroit's actual choice, as it was an OHL forward...Zach Nastasiuk.


But seriously, how high a price do folks really think teams would have been willing to pay for a guy that scored less than 60 points the 3 prior seasons, under 50pt pace the lockout year that just ended, and was getting paid $6.6M? Any team that paid more than a 2nd for him PRIOR to the bounceback, would have been laughed at on all the forums, in the media, and in the GM meetings. That was almost 10% of the cap for a second liner that looked to be declining, and a team was going to give up prime assets for the privilege of making that overpayment?

That being said, it wold have been nice if they had done something similar to what Boston did with us for Soderberg. Trade his rights to STL for a late pick just prior to UFA. I think he would have been amenable to telling STL he would agree to a deal there, and could have gotten us a 5th back to replace the one we gave up for Briere.

Great points in my book
 

shadow1

Registered User
Nov 29, 2008
16,591
5,234
Marchand will probably have another big season and get paid.

The thing is, though, he has a high floor. At worst you are getting 45+ points in the regular season and a playoff warrior. At best, you get what he did last season.

Assuming good things happen to the Avs this season - i.e. they turn the corner, or appear to be on the verge - a guy like Marchand would be a huge addition. He's a dirty player, but other teams have dirty players too.

With a lot of cap space and Rantanen three years away from RFA (mind you, I'm worried about a player with zero NHL points), Colorado needs to bulk up next off-season. Alzner, Hanzal, Kulikov, Marchand, Oshie, Shattenkirk; pick two (Burns won't touch UFA).
 

agentblack

Registered User
Apr 11, 2011
13,224
756
New York City
Marchand will probably have another big season and get paid.

The thing is, though, he has a high floor. At worst you are getting 45+ points in the regular season and a playoff warrior. At best, you get what he did last season.

Assuming good things happen to the Avs this season - i.e. they turn the corner, or appear to be on the verge - a guy like Marchand would be a huge addition. He's a dirty player, but other teams have dirty players too.

With a lot of cap space and Rantanen three years away from RFA (mind you, I'm worried about a player with zero NHL points), Colorado needs to bulk up next off-season. Alzner, Hanzal, Kulikov, Marchand, Oshie, Shattenkirk; pick two (Burns won't touch UFA).

Cant imagine this not being a playoff team with say..Marchand and Alzner on board. Wishful thinking i know.
 

Murzu

HFBoards Sponsor
Sponsor
Dec 23, 2013
6,156
9,241
Finland
I had a lil fun with capfriendly gm tool..

Our 17-18 lineup:

Grigorenko - MacKinnon - Landeskog
Rantanen - Duchene - Oshie
Comeau - Söderberg - Colborne
G. Bourque - Compher - McLeod

Barrie - Johnson
Bigras - Shattenkirk
Zadorov - Beauchemin
Gelinas

Varlamov
Pickard

* Grigorenko 2 x 2M
* Oshie 5 x 4.5M
* G. Bourque 1 x .85M
* Shattenkirk 7 x 6.3M
* Zadorov 2 x 2.25M
* Gelinas 1 x 1M

Give Vegas a draft pick to pick a scrub.

Cap hit $71,317,262

Totally realistic, I know.
 

Pokecheque

I’ve been told it’s spelled “Pokecheck”
Sponsor
Aug 5, 2003
46,092
29,180
The Flatlands
www.armoredheadspace.com
And yeah just to clarify, I don't want grit just for the sake of having it, not to have a bunch of plugs. But get our talented and skill guys to not play like a bunch of little kids. I know it's way easier said than done. I know most guys are who they are and you can't just have a coach who tells them to play tough but if you add the right pieces and change the mindset a bit things can be different. Marchand isn't a plug, he can legitimately score in the NHL. Not that I think he'd ever sign here. But I'm not writing off guys because they might be a bit of a jerk on the ice. We can't have all saints on the team. Sometimes you have to play a little in the grey area. That's what it's more about, not signing a dude because he's gritty. Our guys need to fight for it more too, they need to fight back.

I agree they need to be more willing to play a physical brand of hockey, at the very least not be quite so fancy, and also be willing to pay a price for setting up shop in front of the net (I'd also like to see their defensemen punish the opposition if they ever try to put a guy in the slot). I just don't want to see them pass up skill in favor of grit. That's what ultimately killed Buffalo and nearly killed Washington.
 

RockLobster

King in the North
Jul 5, 2003
27,140
7,352
Kansas
Versteeg coming back to NA and will be a UFA again, some sort of insurance complication.

I'd sure love to get him on the team at this point, I think he'd provide some nice Top-9/Top-6 depth
 

CobraAcesS

De Opresso Liber
Sponsor
Jul 20, 2011
25,897
9,876
Michigan
Versteeg coming back to NA and will be a UFA again, some sort of insurance complication.

I'd sure love to get him on the team at this point, I think he'd provide some nice Top-9/Top-6 depth

Isn't he the level of guy who would be too expensive? Like Matthias? As in 1.8-2M or something like that?
 

xbestboybandever

Registered User
Jun 24, 2015
1,226
429
Versteeg coming back to NA and will be a UFA again, some sort of insurance complication.

I'd sure love to get him on the team at this point, I think he'd provide some nice Top-9/Top-6 depth

I think that Versteeg would fit perfectly with this team. Perfect energy 3rd line winger.
 

RockLobster

King in the North
Jul 5, 2003
27,140
7,352
Kansas
Isn't he the level of guy who would be too expensive? Like Matthias? As in 1.8-2M or something like that?

Would be a nice add, but he will probably get a better contract than what we can give.

I can see arguments being made that he'll cost too much, but also arguments made that he won't cost as much as one would think. It's kind of "late in the game" for someone to be entering the UFA market. If he doesn't want a PTO he may have to take a bit less than he would like.

I don't know, we'll see. But if the Avs could find the wiggle room (and I think they can, but it'd involve sending Bigras to the AHL), then at this point of the year, I'd be really jazzed by his addition.
 

CobraAcesS

De Opresso Liber
Sponsor
Jul 20, 2011
25,897
9,876
Michigan
I can see arguments being made that he'll cost too much, but also arguments made that he won't cost as much as one would think. It's kind of "late in the game" for someone to be entering the UFA market. If he doesn't want a PTO he may have to take a bit less than he would like.

I don't know, we'll see. But if the Avs could find the wiggle room (and I think they can, but it'd involve sending Bigras to the AHL), then at this point of the year, I'd be really jazzed by his addition.

I'm not sure the guy we're talking about is worth sending Bigras to the AHL personally.

People are forgetting how bad Weirdo, and what we've recently seen of Gelinas actually is. I'm fine if they actually beat him out, however I'm not ok with locking him out to add a depth forward.
 

member 116861

Guest
Versteeg would be smart to come to Colorado. High end players to play with and not much competition either.
 

StayAtHomeAv

Registered User
May 20, 2014
6,681
127
I can see arguments being made that he'll cost too much, but also arguments made that he won't cost as much as one would think. It's kind of "late in the game" for someone to be entering the UFA market. If he doesn't want a PTO he may have to take a bit less than he would like.

I don't know, we'll see. But if the Avs could find the wiggle room (and I think they can, but it'd involve sending Bigras to the AHL), then at this point of the year, I'd be really jazzed by his addition.

How does sending Bigras down help? Who would replace him that's cheaper?
 

RockLobster

King in the North
Jul 5, 2003
27,140
7,352
Kansas
I'm not sure the guy we're talking about is worth sending Bigras to the AHL personally.

People are forgetting how bad Weirdo, and what we've recently seen of Gelinas actually is. I'm fine if they actually beat him out, however I'm not ok with locking him out to add a depth forward.

How does sending Bigras down help? Who would replace him that's cheaper?

It wouldn't be sending Bigras to the AHL as a means to make room on the roster for Versteeg, it would be $ savings.

On top of that, let's look at the Defense right now:

EJ
Barrie
Beauchemin
Zadorov
Tyutin
Wiercioch
Gelinas
Bigras
Siemens (possibly)

That's 8 or 9 players that COULD see time in the NHL this upcoming season (but I believe Siemens is a stretch). We don't know if Bednar will want to roll with 8D on the active roster, and if he wants to go with 7D do we really want Bigras up if he hasn't solidified a hold on a roster spot? If he's going to be a rotational healthy scratch, wouldn't it be better to send him down so he can play consistent minutes in SA?

You send Grimaldi, Bigras, and Compher to the AHL (and again, with Compher it's more about getting him acclimated to the Pro game, I have no doubt he'll be a solid player for us for a long time), you roll with 7D (EJ, Barrie, Beauch, Z, Tyutin, Gelinas, and Wiercioch), and the Avs can sign Versteeg to a 1 year 2M contract and still have ~400k in cap space left (that banks and grows every day once the season starts) and you have Martinsen as the 13th Forward.

It's doable, and like I said, certainly an argument can be made for Bigras spending time in the AHL if he's going to be a rotational healthy scratch.
 

Pierce Hawthorne

HFBoards Sponsor
Sponsor
Apr 29, 2012
45,159
42,681
Caverns of Draconis
Not a fan of bringing in Versteeg personally.


Him joining the team would likely mean less minutes for one of Rantanen or Grigorenko. I'd rather see both of those guys getting regular Top 6/9 shifts.
 

xbestboybandever

Registered User
Jun 24, 2015
1,226
429
Not a fan of bringing in Versteeg personally.


Him joining the team would likely mean less minutes for one of Rantanen or Grigorenko. I'd rather see both of those guys getting regular Top 6/9 shifts.

Having depth forwards is never a bad thing, especially considering that both of those players will benefit from seeing limited minutes to start the year. A solid middle sixer that can slide up and down would do wonders, and if anything else, he can probably be traded at the deadline if we are out of the playoff picture.

Landeskog-Mack-Grigorenko
Colborne-Duchene-Iginla
Rantanen-Soderberg-Versteeg
Comeau-Mitchell-Mcleod

Then as the year moves on, you see roles get shifted and shuffled.

Landeskog-Mack-Rantanen
Colborne-Duchene-Grigorenko
Versteeg-Soderberg-Iginla
Comeau-Mitchell-Mcleod
 

Cousin Eddie

You Serious Clark?
Nov 3, 2006
40,147
37,298
Yeah I'm not feeling the Versteeg love that everyone else seems to have. I'd be fine with them signing him to a cheap one year deal but I'm not all like "wut Versteeg is available? PICK UP THE PHONE JOE". It's a prime case of being bored late in the offseason.
 

Cousin Eddie

You Serious Clark?
Nov 3, 2006
40,147
37,298
So I just took some time to analyze Versteeg's numbers. Disregard my last post, I'm completely onboard lol.

He's not going to make or break this team but if we need one more player we may as well make it a guy who can hold possession while producing at a decent rate. He's proven he can play with top players too. Give him the rest of our cap space and stick Iggy on the 4th line.
 

RockLobster

King in the North
Jul 5, 2003
27,140
7,352
Kansas
So I just took some time to analyze Versteeg's numbers. Disregard my last post, I'm completely onboard lol.

He's not going to make or break this team but if we need one more player we may as well make it a guy who can hold possession while producing at a decent rate. He's proven he can play with top players too. Give him the rest of our cap space and stick Iggy on the 4th line.

Bingo.

It's not that I'm a huge Versteeg fan or anything (I don't hate the guy, but I have never really watched him play), but I think he's an attractive piece at this stage of the offseason and is versatile enough to either wing in the Top-9. If Rantanen needs more time, Grigorenko needs more time, etc, it never hurts to have someone else that can be plugged in up there.
 

tucker3434

HFBoards Sponsor
Sponsor
Apr 7, 2007
19,896
10,695
Atlanta, GA
Considering we sit at 44(?) contracts, I'm all for bringing in pretty much any cheap winger that has a shot at making the team. But I doubt Versteeg will be cheap enough for us to fit him in comfortably. Anybody know how much he was set to make in Switzerland?
 

Freudian

Clearly deranged
Jul 3, 2003
50,449
17,277
Friedman

"Neither Chiarelli nor Shero would confirm it, but the Devils and Oilers discussed smaller possibilities well before the final deal. Edmonton had interest in Eric Gelinas (who was traded to Colorado) and Jon Merrill (still in New Jersey)."

"The Oilers tried to add defencemen any way they could. Chiarelli wouldn’t provide specifics, but it is believed their targets included St. Louis’s Kevin Shattenkirk, although they wouldn’t trade anyone with term for a player who could walk 12 months later; Carolina’s Justin Faulk and Colorado’s Tyson Barrie. Before the draft, there was a lot of smoke surrounding a Ryan Nugent-Hopkins/Matt Dumba deal, but that fizzled."

On Subban:

"There were at least three possibilities — Colorado, Edmonton and Vancouver. Canucks GM Jim Benning admitted his interest and had one thing the Canadiens really liked — a better draft position. But 24 hours before the first pick, Bergevin realized there was no way Columbus would let Pierre-Luc Dubois pass them. That damaged the two teams’ ability to make a deal, since he was the prospect Montreal coveted.

I’m not sure Colorado ever got past Subban’s contract. Same with Edmonton. Chiarelli wouldn’t comment, but multiple sources said conversations between the Canadiens and Oilers did not last very long at all. The Oilers did not like the ask, and they know McDavid could become the highest-paid player in the NHL. They were not interested in pairing whatever that number will be with Subban’s $9M.
"

Good read btw.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad