Rumor: AVS Proposals/Rumors/Free Agents & Roster Moves (related topics) ‎ ‎

[agentblack]

As long as Dutchy can still take faceoffs, have no problem moving him to wing fulltime.
He's turned into one of the best in the game now. Best on this team anyway.

 

[Gabe the Babe]

I was thinking today about what the Avs should do if the Avs miss out on Radulov, and Drouin recinds his trade request, and I think I might consider resetting the window back a couple years if I were the Avs. Wait for Z and Bigras to takeover a bit, and give themselves another couple UFA's years to find them some help to build a more well rounded D core.

Trade Barrie for another top 10 pick, and try to pick up Logan Brown and Tyson Jost. The more I think about it, the more I think Jost would look great on Mack's LW, especially as a right-left handed combo. They'd fit together well for a lot of the same reasons Drouin would.

Move Dutchy to the wing full time, so they can have that big center (Brown) eating up minutes that's so important these days. This lets Dutchy basically play Rads role on RW, and Jost plays Drouin's role with Mack on LW.

Plan for Soda to be taken in the expansion draft and hope for a top 6 like this.

Jost - Mack - Rantanen
Landy - Brown - Duchene

That's not setting it back a little. At that point. Might as well trade EJ, Varly and Duchene too. Because you're looking at 5 more years.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

Honestly if the Avs were to blow it up I think Barrie is one of the ones who need to stay. If Barrie needs to be traded this offseason to fit a pay structure, so be it. I'm pissed about it but I've gotten used to it. But if the Avs are going to completely blow it up I'd want Barrie to be one of the ones to stay along with Mack, Rantanen, Z and Bigras. Defense is too hard to build and they take longer to develop.


Pay Mackinnon and Barrie over 8 years. Keep developing guys like Pickard, Rantanen, Zads and Bigras along with the prospects who haven't gone pro yet. Trade Duchene, Landeskog, Varlamov and EJ.

That's my blow up plan if I'm the Avs. But if I'm the Avs I don't blow it up. When you see the star status of the guys who should be traded in a "blow up" you realize how ridiculous that would be. This team is far closer to trending up than blowing it up.

 

[AslanRH]

If we want to count on Yeti being taken in the expansion draft, Roy had probably feed him some offensive minutes (PP again please) and decent linemates consistently. That isn't the best contract to sell to an expansion team if he looks like a mediocre 3C when guys like Comeau, McLeod, and Holden will be on 1 year deals.

 

[Ivan13]

Honestly if the Avs were to blow it up I think Barrie is one of the ones who need to stay. If Barrie needs to be traded this offseason to fit a pay structure, so be it. I'm pissed about it but I've gotten used to it. But if the Avs are going to completely blow it up I'd want Barrie to be one of the ones to stay along with Mack, Rantanen, Z and Bigras. Defense is too hard to build and they take longer to develop.


Pay Mackinnon and Barrie over 8 years. Keep developing guys like Pickard, Rantanen, Zads and Bigras along with the prospects who haven't gone pro yet. Trade Duchene, Landeskog, Varlamov and EJ.

That's my blow up plan if I'm the Avs. But if I'm the Avs I don't blow it up. When you see the star status of the guys who should be traded in a "blow up" you realize how ridiculous that would be. This team is far closer to trending up than blowing it up.

They won't blow it up because of how that would look. But I fear we will just be stuck in the mediocrity for a while.

 

[Foppa2118]

That's not setting it back a little. At that point. Might as well trade EJ, Varly and Duchene too. Because you're looking at 5 more years.

They'd still need EJ during that time though to help build towards a legit D core. Varly I'd keep for one more year to give Picks more of a test. Then make a determination. They might be able to keep both longer, if they make an agreement with Vegas to take Soda. Duchene I'd keep because the rest would be too young, and having a vet scorer takes some pressure off them is beneficial.

The purpose of resetting wouldn't be to aim towards stocking up on more pics. They'd still be trying to get better each year and get playoff experience. They'd be resetting because they've missed on too many UFA options over the years, and can't fix the problem though draft and trade quickly enough.

The purpose would be to align the ages of the forwards, with the ages of when the D become experienced enough to take over bigger roles, and they eventually have a balanced lineup that can compete.

That's why under that scenario I wouldn't go into full sell mode. They can always trade those guys a little later on.

 

[henchman21]

Honestly if the Avs were to blow it up I think Barrie is one of the ones who need to stay. If Barrie needs to be traded this offseason to fit a pay structure, so be it. I'm pissed about it but I've gotten used to it. But if the Avs are going to completely blow it up I'd want Barrie to be one of the ones to stay along with Mack, Rantanen, Z and Bigras. Defense is too hard to build and they take longer to develop.


Pay Mackinnon and Barrie over 8 years. Keep developing guys like Pickard, Rantanen, Zads and Bigras along with the prospects who haven't gone pro yet. Trade Duchene, Landeskog, Varlamov and EJ.

That's my blow up plan if I'm the Avs. But if I'm the Avs I don't blow it up. When you see the star status of the guys who should be traded in a "blow up" you realize how ridiculous that would be. This team is far closer to trending up than blowing it up.

I don't think Landy should fit in that group. He is younger, a leader, and consistent player. People have too high of expectations on him, but a 2 way, physical LW that is a near lock for 20-25g and 30-35a is a valuable player to have. I think people forget he is only 23...

 

[Cousin Eddie]

I don't think Landy should fit in that group. He is younger, a leader, and consistent player. People have too high of expectations on him, but a 2 way, physical LW that is a near lock for 20-25g and 30-35a is a valuable player to have. I think people forget he is only 23...

He's only a year younger than Duchene. Funny because everyone thinks Duchene is about to start trending downward but based on the way they play Landy is much more likely to decline before Duchene. I don't see it happening to either for another 5-8 years though.

 

[StayAtHomeAv]

22 months older actually

 

[henchman21]

He's only a year younger than Duchene. Funny because everyone thinks Duchene is about to start trending downward but based on the way they play Landy is much more likely to decline before Duchene. I don't see it happening to either for another 5-8 years though.

Well... it is closer to 2 than 1... Duchene is an early 91, Landy is a late 92. There isn't a huge difference in age, but Landy is a decent amount younger.

Both are at their peaks, but the sharp decline is a ~5-6-7 years off. IMO both have settled into who they really are as players.

 

[The Kingslayer]

As long as Dutchy can still take faceoffs, have no problem moving him to wing fulltime.
He's turned into one of the best in the game now. Best on this team anyway.

Yah but for some reason we want to trade him.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

22 months older actually

91 and 92 born respectively. It's a year in hockey terms unless you're talking about the important years of development in their late teens.

 

[RockLobster]

91 and 92 born respectively. It's a year in hockey terms unless you're talking about the important years of development in their late teens.

22 months is closer to 2 years than 1, my friend

 

[Cousin Eddie]

22 months is closer to 2 years than 1, my friend

Not in hockey years (unless the 22 months fail into 3 separate years)

 

[henchman21]

Not in hockey years (unless the 22 months fail into 3 separate years)

And they do

Duchene is an 09, Landy is an 11... The third year is somewhere in the middle there.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

And they do

Duchene is an 09, Landy is an 11... The third year is somewhere in the middle there.

What I mean is if Duchene was born in December of 90 and Landeskog was born October of 92 they would actually be two years apart (in hockey years). The 3 separate years im referring to don't apply to these two since one was born in 91 and the other in 92.

Duchene spent his entire life playing with kids born in 91. Landeskog spent his entire career playing with kids born in 92.

 

[henchman21]

What I mean is if Duchene was born in December of 90 and Landeskog was born October of 92 they would actually be two years apart (in hockey years). The 3 separate years im referring to don't apply to these two since one was born in 91 and the other in 92.

Duchene spent his entire life playing with kids born in 91. Landeskog spent his entire career playing with kids born in 92.

Landy was playing older for most of his development. He played games in the SEL at 16. He was playing U18 and U20 at 15. Duchene has followed the NA model based off the year much closer.

 

[StayAtHomeAv]

Shouldn't hockey years correlate with draft class?

 

[henchman21]

Shouldn't hockey years correlate with draft class?

Most North American leagues base it off birth year regardless of date.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

Landy was playing older for most of his development. He played games in the SEL at 16. He was playing U18 and U20 at 15. Duchene has followed the NA model based off the year much closer.

So with that argument I guess Landy is more weathered than he would have been had he been in North America so he's ever closer to Dutchy's age lol.

Sorry but I just always use birth year to age players since they play with their own age groups. You wouldn't consider a December born 12th grader in high school to be dumber than a January born kid just because he was born almost a full year later. He was taught all the same things at the same time as the December born kid. Same thing with hockey players. The only time it makes an impact is in their late teens when their bodies may be a few months less developed or if they're a super elite player at the NHL draft.

Shouldn't hockey years correlate with draft class?

The only way that makes a difference are for the truly elite players who missed the draft cut off by a couple of months. Eichel for example is one, Tavares another. Guys like Landeskog and maybe even Taylor Hall wouldn't have been good enough to play in the NHL had they been drafted with the rest of their age group a year earlier. The only difference it makes to those players is that their rights belong to an NHL team while they play an extra year of junior.

 

[henchman21]

So with that argument I guess Landy is more weathered than he would have been had he been in North America so he's ever closer to Dutchy's age lol.

Sorry but I just always use birth year to age players since they play with their own age groups. You wouldn't consider a December born 12th grader in high school to be dumber than a January born kid just because he was born almost a full year later. He was taught all the same things at the same time as the December born kid. Same thing with hockey players. The only time it makes an impact is in their late teens when their bodies may be a few months less developed or if they're a super elite player at the NHL draft.

Landy has played far less games though. We can keep going around and around here.

The point is that Landy is nearly 2 years younger and not one year younger. Just stating 1 year makes it sound a lot closer than it really is. Landy's birthday was a factor in him being NHL ready when he was drafted. It doesn't change that he is still only 23 and that Duchene is 25. I don't care from a development level, nor a current peak level. Both are in their primes and will be for a while. Statistically, Landy has more of an open window, but those average ages can't always be placed on specific players. Some players stay in their primes longer, some shorter.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

Agree to disagree then. You're absolutely right about how long a prime can last and how there's many varialbes that go into that but I'm 100% dead set on using birth years to separate players regardless of the month they're born in. Unless of course it's one of those rare cases (JT, Eichel, Ovechkin) who could have played a year earlier.

 

[NOTENOUGHJTCGOALS]

What matters is neither player should be expected to take any more big jumps in their play level.

 

[AvsGuy]

What matters is neither player should be expected to take any more big jumps in their play level.

Which is really the most depressing aspect of the whole thing

 

[AslanRH]

Neither Dutch or Landy is old enough to be selling yet even if the Avs hit the reset button. On those contracts they will/should hold significant value throughout as long as they stay healthy. Still need vets just as Stastny and Hejduk were for Dutch, ROR, etc.