Rumor: AVS Proposals/Rumors/Free Agents & Related Topics 2016-17 Part XIII

[Cousin Eddie]

Yeah I think he does. I'd like to point out that when I wrote that, Tyler Johnson had just completed a 72 point season.

Having watched Barzal even more since his draft year, he reminds me a lot of Claude Giroux in the way that he hangs on to the puck and is able to find lanes to get the puck to his teammates. That might have been an even better comparable though he's going probably going to be more of a perimeter player than Giroux is. In any case, I think he'll end up a good one.

I agree with the Giroux assessment on the PP. He slows everything down very effectively. At ES I see a lot more Duchene in his game though. Always gunning and moving down low. Really tires out defenders. He doesn't have Dutchy level strength but plays a very similar game in the Ozone.

 

[landy92mack29]

http://bsndenver.com/with-big-decis...uld-take-heed-of-toronto-maple-leafs-example/


this is a very good read

 

[Pacman33]

I just want a high end defenseman somehow. Feels like were the cleveland browns searching for a qb at this point

 

[bohlmeister]

Yeah I think he does. I'd like to point out that when I wrote that, Tyler Johnson had just completed a 72 point season.

Having watched Barzal even more since his draft year, he reminds me a lot of Claude Giroux in the way that he hangs on to the puck and is able to find lanes to get the puck to his teammates. That might have been an even better comparable though he's going probably going to be more of a perimeter player than Giroux is. In any case, I think he'll end up a good one.

That sounds good. One thing I have noticed focusing on Mack's play lately is that he doesn't find the soft sots to receive a pass. He wants the puck on his stick so he will go to open places on the ice to get the puck and make a play. Mack is a good playmaker and makes good passes, so it isn't a negative thing. Avs really need a player who is better away from the puck. Duchene and Mack need the puck. Hoping Rants is going to be that guy.

 

[Nalens Oga]

We have better tradable assets than the Leafs did too. The return for Duchene/Landeskog/Barrie would be much higher than it was for Kessel & Phaneuf so absolutely no excuse not to get this rebuild going by bottoming out this year and next while picking up some extra assets.

 

[xbestboybandever]

That sounds good. One thing I have noticed focusing on Mack's play lately is that he doesn't find the soft sots to receive a pass. He wants the puck on his stick so he will go to open places on the ice to get the puck and make a play. Mack is a good playmaker and makes good passes, so it isn't a negative thing. Avs really need a player who is better away from the puck. Duchene and Mack need the puck. Hoping Rants is going to be that guy.

It would be nice to find a pure trigger man too.

 

[Balthazar]

I mostly like their fans too. One of my favourite group of fans. Sharks and Arizona fans are up there too.

Size has something to do with it. Carolina and Arizona probably have the smallest fan bases on HF...so fewer annoying people.

 

[S E P H]

Probably count me as crazy, but Barzal would most definitely be part of the package since Duchene is essentially replacing him in long term future.

It's quite hilarious though, (good) right-handed defenders are some of the most rare types in the game of hockey...BUT what Avs really need is a left-handed one in which are entirely unavailable (IE: Provorov, McAvoy, Slavin, Sergachev, Chychrun). Just thought that is quite hilarious and ironic at the same time.

I really hope that Ducks make their way into being a serious contender for Duchene or Landeskog, they have a ton of good prospect pieces especially defenders to give up if they want. I'm worried about Fowler's UFA, but Fowler+Ritchie+1st/Prospect would be a good haul. If you want, even replace Fowler with Theodore and drop Ritchie to Max Jones and that still would be awesome for us.

 

[Balthazar]

http://bsndenver.com/with-big-decis...uld-take-heed-of-toronto-maple-leafs-example/


this is a very good read

Yes. Thanks.

It's true that the Leafs got lucky with Matthews but other than that they did everything right in a pretty short span. It's even more impressive considering that they started with a bad team loaded with hard to move expensive vets (Clarkson, Phaneuf, Kessel) and now they have a competitive team with 15M in cap space to spare.

For those who don't want to read the whole thing:

So let’s look at what the Leafs did do in their rebuild.

-Acquired two additional 1st round picks
-Made 12 trades in which they received more or better draft picks than they gave up
-2 trades where they gave up more/better picks than they received
-Kept young talent together, while trading older players for draft picks

 

[CobraAcesS]

Probably count me as crazy, but Barzal would most definitely be part of the package since Duchene is essentially replacing him in long term future.

It's quite hilarious though, (good) right-handed defenders are some of the most rare types in the game of hockey...BUT what Avs really need is a left-handed one in which are entirely unavailable (IE: Provorov, McAvoy, Slavin, Sergachev, Chychrun). Just thought that is quite hilarious and ironic at the same time.

I really hope that Ducks make their way into being a serious contender for Duchene or Landeskog, they have a ton of good prospect pieces especially defenders to get rid of. I'm worried about Fowler's UFA, but Fowler+Ritchie+1st/Prospect would be a good haul. If you want, even replace Fowler with Theodore and drop Ritchie to Max Jones and that still would be awesome for us.

Not to nitpick, but McAvoy is right handed.

Having been in Seattle the same time as Theo, I would love him here. Hes intelligent, and has a great tool set.

I'm not sure how much interest they'd have in Duchene, but like Boston, Landeskog fits their team like a glove.

 

[landy92mack29]

Probably count me as crazy, but Barzal would most definitely be part of the package since Duchene is essentially replacing him in long term future.

It's quite hilarious though, (good) right-handed defenders are some of the most rare types in the game of hockey...BUT what Avs really need is a left-handed one in which are entirely unavailable (IE: Provorov, McAvoy, Slavin, Sergachev, Chychrun). Just thought that is quite hilarious and ironic at the same time.

I really hope that Ducks make their way into being a serious contender for Duchene or Landeskog, they have a ton of good prospect pieces especially defenders to give up if they want. I'm worried about Fowler's UFA, but Fowler+Ritchie+1st/Prospect would be a good haul. If you want, even replace Fowler with Theodore and drop Ritchie to Max Jones and that still would be awesome for us.

mcavoy is a rhd

 

[Balthazar]

Recently "rumored" (on this board at least) dmen:

Hamonic RHD
Pulock RHD
Carlo RHD
McAvoy RHD
Fabbro RHD
Faulk RHD
---
Murray LHD
Hanifin LHD
Sergachev LHD
Chabot LHD

 

[CobraAcesS]

Yes. Thanks.

It's true that the Leafs got lucky with Matthews but other than that they did everything right in a pretty short span. It's even more impressive considering that they started with a bad team loaded with hard to move expensive vets (Clarkson, Phaneuf, Kessel) and now they have a competitive team with 15M in cap space to spare.

For those who don't want to read the whole thing:

I don't know if I'd say they did everything right. They have all of these great forwards, but Reilly and Gardiner are still their future on defense. Which is very suspect IMO.

Now they are pulling out of the basement, and have nothing of significance there.

Anyone can trade vets for prospects at the TDL, and a rich team (or AZ?) can take on crap contracts for picks, but they've failed to realize something fundamental. That is that your defense needs to be a priority these days, despite all these flashy forwards giving you that next fix you keep looking for.

The only forwards I'd likely have on that team that they are all so excited for is Mathews and Nylander.

I'd probably have

2012 - Morgan Rielly/Lindholm (Can't blame them here)
2013 - Theodore over Gauthier
2014 - Nylander (No one close enough to justify taking D)
2015 - Hanifin over Marner
2016 - Matthews

And none of these guys would have had an impact on the NHL roster to change future draft picks, because they all would have stayed in the minors and the AHL until they forced my hand.

But you know.. It's the Toronto Maple Leafs, so everything they do is perfect.

 

[forbzee44]

Zadorov got tangled up with Rants in practice, had to be helped off the ice, seems to be a LBI

 

[Balthazar]

I don't know if I'd say they did everything right. They have all of these great forwards, but Reilly and Gardiner are still their future on defense. Which is very suspect IMO.

Now they are pulling out of the basement, and have nothing of significance there.

Anyone can trade vets for prospects at the TDL, and a rich team (or AZ?) can take on crap contracts for picks, but they've failed to realize something fundamental. That is that your defense needs to be a priority these days, despite all these flashy forwards giving you that next fix you keep looking for.

The only forwards I'd likely have on that team that they are all so excited for is Mathews and Nylander.

I'd probably have

2012 - Morgan Rielly/Lindholm (Can't blame them here)
2013 - Theodore over Gauthier
2014 - Nylander (No one close enough to justify taking D)
2015 - Hanifin over Marner
2016 - Matthews

And none of these guys would have had an impact on the NHL roster to change future draft picks, because they all would have stayed in the minors and the AHL until they forced my hand.

But you know.. It's the Toronto Maple Leafs, so everything they do is perfect.

When I said everything right I didn't mean to analyze every draft pick they have made in the last 5 years...I was talking about their way to start rebuilding the team.

 

[CobraAcesS]

When I said everything right I didn't mean to analyze every draft pick they have made in the last 5 years...I was talking about their way to start rebuilding the team.

I don't mean to focus on you specifically, but it's a wide spread sentiment. The point is to show the hype is smoke, IMO of course.

 

[S E P H]

Yes. Thanks.

It's true that the Leafs got lucky with Matthews but other than that they did everything right in a pretty short span. It's even more impressive considering that they started with a bad team loaded with hard to move expensive vets (Clarkson, Phaneuf, Kessel) and now they have a competitive team with 15M in cap space to spare.

For those who don't want to read the whole thing:

I don't think it's a good nor accurate read since Leafs haven't won anything and do not have any other studs coming through the system either. Besides Nielsen (and big maybe to Dermott), I do not see a single top 3 potential defender in their system right now (which they need). You can kind of consider their success in two aspects, sucking in great drafts and having one of the NHL's best coaches. If it wasn't for Babcock, I can guarantee that they would not be where they are now. Would they be one of the worst teams in the league this season? No, but would probably be the Dallas Stars version of the East. We saw it likewise with the Oilers and Penguins where sucking SO much eventually leads to a great draft. If Avs need to learn a thing or two, it would be to suck next season in a fantastic draft to change their fortune. Think about it, I LOVE Rantanen, I was one of his biggest supporters here during the 2015 draft. However, if Avs decided to suck just a little bit more that year, we could have gotten Provorov or Werenski. I doubt we would be a playoff team, but Flyers are in much better shape than we are with him in the lineup. We wouldn't need to trade either Duchene or Landeskog when having that type of defensive prospect in our wings. Now, I think Avs problems run deeper than a lack of talent which is why I don't care if Duchene or Landy are traded. But just giving my two cents in the main reason why teams like Oilers and Penguins got good.

Not to nitpick, but McAvoy is right handed.

Having been in Seattle the same time as Theo, I would love him here. Hes intelligent, and has a great tool set.

I'm not sure how much interest they'd have in Duchene, but like Boston, Landeskog fits their team like a glove.

Oppsie, I meant to put Chabot there instead of McAvoy.

 

[tucker3434]

I don't think the Leafs did anything particularly impressive. They sucked at the right times and got the best coach in the NHL. Give them MacKinnon, Landeskog, Duchene, and Bednar instead of Mathews, Marner, Nylander, and Babcock, and they're in the same position we are.

So I don't see them as being a model, because I don't think what they did can be repeated. There is no Mathews in this draft, and there's only one Babcock. But as a general statement of "trade all the old guys for draft picks," I'm on board. Just don't think we'll pull even any 2nds from the guys we've got.

 

[Pacman33]

Zadorov got tangled up with Rants in practice, had to be helped off the ice, seems to be a LBI

If hes out for year and we dont make a major move, im probally done till next season. He was main reason games were still semi watchable

 

[the_fan]

Every rebuilding team needs to hit the jackpot in the draft to become a winning team again plain and simple. If we are comparing Leafs and Avs, Leafs got a Matthews Avs don't, if Leafs didn't get Matthews, they'd still be an irrelevant team, even with the other young talent they have.

Teams need that true franchise changing player, some teams are lucky to have couple of those players, but without at least one, you wont go anywhere.

 

[Balthazar]

I don't think the Leafs did anything particularly impressive.

Less than 3 years ago their head coach was Randy Carlyle and their core consisted of Phil Kessel, Dion Phaneuf, David Clarkson and Jonathan Bernier. Excuse me, but to say that what they have done isn't impressive because they only have 1 young top pair dman in the pipeline is ridiculous.

And I hate the Leafs with passion.

 

[Foppberg]

Still think that Nashville is the darkhorse in all of this.

Fabbro played with Jost and was also in range of our #1 last year. So they probably have done their homework on him. Not sure if they like him or not but he certainly is not a bad prospect. He also played in the Beanpot that Sakic visited.

They also have Girard, Carrier and Allard in the pipeline.

They also have Josi, Subban, Ellis (who NSH fans seem to be very high on) and Ekholm already on the roster.

They also have 2 very good forward prospects that are very close to the NHL right now doing pretty well in the AHL in Kamenev and Fiala.

Avs certainly have a decent relationship with them (division or not) considering the Cody Mac deal.

NSH also really wants to win now with Rinne getting older and after trading Weber.

Also don't forget how much Duchene loves NSH so him re-signing wouldn't be an issue at all when it comes to value and don't forget that good guy Joe Sakic always tries to make his players happy...

Their top4 is already pretty great.


Add a forward core of:

Forsberg - RyJo -Neal
Arvidsson - Duchene - Fiala/Kamenev


and that team certainly could afford to pay up for an in division deal. They could go far with Duchene tbh.

Add that they would lose one of Smith/Arvidsson or Jarnkrok if they decide to go the 8 skater route in the expansion draft and I could see Poile offering up quite the package.


Maybe Ekholm + Fabbro + Fiala/Kamenev +2nd for Duchene+ Iggy @50% or something.



Most interesting team to watch for me right now when it comes to Duchene rumors.

Think Carolina unfortunately are a pipedream at this point. Bergevin seems dead certain on not giving up Sergachev (although it might be a bit of a negotiation ploy but I doubt it),
Isles IMO are a terrible fit. Barzal as the mainpiece is terrible. His best case scenario (that he probably won't come close to) is Matt Duchene. Might as well keep Duchene around. Hamonic is a bad fit and I don't rate him enough to want to trade one of the other two RHDs because of him.

I don't see Columbus giving up Murray + PLD and I really have no interest in other deals with them tbh (aside from the obvious untouchables like Werenski, etc. ofc).

Ottawa should have their numbers blocked for all those leaks. Don't deserve Duchene and they don't seem to even come close to meeting the asking price anyways.


NSH is my current favorite oddswise. Wouldn't personally like the deal very much but they are the team that has the need, desire and the pieces to fit the rumored asking price of Sakic (top 4 D + multiple other high value pieces).


Still hope that Francis will panic and give us Hanifin + because he is afraid of missing out on the one potential #1 C that will be available in the foreseeable future but unfortunately I don't see it happen.

Maybe I'm in the minority but I really like this package, outside of getting Hanifin or Sergachev.

 

[forbzee44]

Yeah they're pipeline isnt stocked with young D, but when Reilly, Gardiner, Carrick, Marincin and Zaitzev, are all young, under 26, cost controlled, and are all fairly solid in their roles, the Leaf's don't need a defensive pipeline like Carolina's or Anaheims.

Compare that to the Avs and there's EJ, who's older than any Leafs Dman, Barrie, who we don't even like for the most part, and personally I would trade asap, and then there's Zadorov, and Bigras who has a bit of potential,

The Leafs turn around has been extremely impressive, whether they luck out and win Matthews or not.

 

[forbzee44]

Maybe I'm in the minority but I really like this package, outside of getting Hanifin or Sergachev.

Fabbro and Fiala would both be very welcome on the team, but I just don't see Nashville trading Ekholm really. The only way I could is if we had a decent LHD to send back to them to help fill the gap, but I doubt Weircoch or Tyutin would make them interested.

If they wanted to add Duchene to really load up and make a run, you're robbing peter to pay paul, and their defence would be a lot less impressive without Ekholm.

In saying that, Nashville is kind of boned for the Expansion draft, so maybe something could be done?

Adding Fabbro and uniting the Jost/Fabbro bromance would be fun.

 

[tucker3434]

Less than 3 years ago their head coach was Randy Carlyle and their core consisted of Phil Kessel, Dion Phaneuf, David Clarkson and Jonathan Bernier. Excuse me, but to say that what they have done isn't impressive because they only have 1 young top pair dman in the pipeline is ridiculous.

And I hate the Leafs with passion.

What brilliant moves have they made? They hired Babcock, which was great, but it was one of only several places he'd consider going. I don't believe any of the trades they made are currently having any impact at the NHL level. The biggest reason for their success is that they were really bad for a few years, and it looks like all three of the guys they drafted will live up to the hype.

Good for them. Great for them. I'm jealous. Wish it had happened to us. But it doesn't impress me.