Rumor: AVS Proposals/Rumors/Free Agents & Related Topics 2016-17 Part IV

[5280]

I've decided I have no idea what the hell is wrong with this team. Is it the core? The surrounding players? The coach, GM? I give up.

I have been saying I thought we should trade Duchene for about 3 years now just because I thought him and Mack were kind of redundant. I really wish we would have kept ROR but I don't even know if I would have paid him the salary he wanted or even if he really wanted to stay here at all.

I was pretty big on Bednar and I've always thought Sakic should make a pretty good GM.

Having said that, I have no idea where we go from here. It's kind of sad but I am finding it hard to find anything positive at all to focus on. There doesn't seem to be much hope or progress at all.

If I'm Sakic, though, I cut my losses, get what I can from the peripheral players.....tank, which I hate to do, develop the youngsters correctly, which means giving them the ideal playing time in the AHL or on the Avs and make some hard decisions about the core.

No reason to panic, but also no reason to think that what is going on is close to working.

 

[henchman21]

I've decided I have no idea what the hell is wrong with this team. Is it the core? The surrounding players? The coach, GM? I give up.

IMO pretty much all of the above. The core isn't good enough to carry lower level players (the top cores in the NHL can and have). The surrounding players are not good enough to prop up a weaker core. The front office has been divided on a direction for a while, hopefully that has been solved. I think the coaches deserve the least scorn, but they play a role in this too. Roy threw away defense to try to win with offense. Bednar is throwing away offense to lock up defensively. There needs to be balance and adjustments have to be made... but either one not working is more on the players than the coaches.

 

[Yetti090]

If they can find a way to improve the D, and keep their high draft picks, and keep the forward depth, and not move Duchene, then that's obviously the best way to do it.

Problem is that's incredibly difficult. UFA doesn't have enough high end talent to help, and the players cost top dollar. That leaves trades or the draft to address the problem.

To add to the problem, they've waited so long to fix this that some of the core guys like Duchene and Varly aren't too far away from UFA. Even Barrie only has three years left.

So can they fix the problem in the next few years while these guys are on good contracts, or will it extend into their next contracts where they're more expensive? The smart money is on it taking more than a few years.

If they can fix it through trade it will be quicker, but how do you bring in top players without moving out any top players?

If they fix it through the draft, then it for sure will take more than a few years. Then you can see why they're contemplating moving Duchene, who only has two years left after this season.

I agree. In my opinion, (I understand we are only 1/4 of the way into the season), is this:
Trade Iggy for a 2nd or 4th and prospect
Trade Beauch for a 3rd or a 6th and prospect
Trade Varly for a back up goalie (like one of Dallas' goalies that we can expose for the expansion)
Trade Tyutin closer to the deadline to a team needing d-depth for a 4th or 5th
***This right here opens up 17.7 mil (will probably take some back in retention or in a player back)***

We will have an extra 3.6mil next year when stuart is off the books. So that gives us 15-20 mil next year to play with. It's time to either go after some big names with it to compliment Dutch and Mack or stay the corse of building through the draft.

 

[Avs_19]

Picks not establishing himself.

If that's the only hold up then they need to give him at least 4-5 starts in a row and see if he can put something together. Going back to Varly after every below average/poor start doesn't really help if you're evaluating the two of them to see who to keep.

 

[RockLobster]

I've decided I have no idea what the hell is wrong with this team. Is it the core? The surrounding players? The coach, GM? I give up.

I think it's pretty much everything, not just one specific thing. Roy (and Sakic) wanted to "win now" after the surprise that was the 13-14 year, but I don't think either of them went about it the right way. I don't think Sakic brought in the right players, and even if I still believe that Patrick Roy is too smart to not be a successful NHL head coach, he didn't deploy them right (again, I suspect in an effort to "win at all costs"). But the players (core and otherwise) just aren't good enough to help each other out, and I don't think the coaching staff is helping them in that area either.

There were some pretty big moves that Roy wanted to make, but for one reason or another they didn't happen. And as Henchy said, Roy tended to sacrifice defense to win with offense, and now Bednar is doing the opposite, yet we're seeing roughly the same results. The team just isn't constructed right, and I've long said that I'd start with a Matt Duchene trade, as this team is only going to go as far as Nathan MacKinnon will take them (it's his team).

At this point, I'd welcome a move of Duchene, Varlamov, or Barrie. I'd keep MacKinnon, Rantanen, and Landeskog and build from there. It's too bad the Avs couldn't have had a better draft pick in some of the recent years, as they could've already had a Hanifin or Werenski, but c'est la vie.

Also, like Henchy said, they do need to pick a plan and stick with it. Now, I'm not someone who believes they need to hoard draft picks/prospects, but I think it's painfully evident that the "2009 rebuild" (which I really don't think was an actual rebuild) didn't work, and they tried a "2013 re-tool" starting at that year's Draft, but if they make a big move, they should just consider this season done with, and attempt to gather some more picks/prospects IF they can trade Iginla or anyone else, and then start building a better balanced team (I've personally long been on board with Henchy's way of a bigger-bodied/two-way Top-6 Center to compliment MacKinnon).

 

[5280]

IMO pretty much all of the above. The core isn't good enough to carry lower level players (the top cores in the NHL can and have). The surrounding players are not good enough to prop up a weaker core. The front office has been divided on a direction for a while, hopefully that has been solved. I think the coaches deserve the least scorn, but they play a role in this too. Roy threw away defense to try to win with offense. Bednar is throwing away offense to lock up defensively. There needs to be balance and adjustments have to be made... but either one not working is more on the players than the coaches.

So really it's just kind of a comedy of errors over the years. Hard to point a finger at just one thing, but add them all up and you have what is going on now.

I've kind of had the line of thought that Sakic would end up being a good navigator through all of this because of the nature of his personality on and off the ice. He was a pretty cerebral player and a laid back humble guy. I thought that mentality would make a good GM out if him. Having said that, he really has made a bunch of mistakes and his philosophy of bringing in veterans to mentor the younger guys really hadn't worked at all. In reality it has ended up with a bunch of dead weight contracts on the team. Also the on ice product obviously sucks, the composition if the team really seems jumbled with little continuity. All of the parts do not equal a better whole like it should.

I was of the mentality that there were two different philosophies the room in Roy and Sakic and that now that Roy was gone we could proceed with a better vision. Add that to the fact that we were hopefully bringing in a better coach than Roy and I thought we would be going in the right direction.

I was going to reserve judgement on this new era until later on in the year because we were bringing in a new coach with a new system, but it really seems like we still have the same problems we have had for the last bunch of years.

This leads me to believe that the problem is the core. This is the third coach most of this core has had and the same problems still seem to be there. On the other hand whose job is it to establish the core? The GM's. So maybe it is Sakic?

Maybe you are right and it is all of the above, I just don't even know where to start.

 

[detrude]

Problem is not our core. Problem is our GM who doesn't put any pieces around them. No idea why people call for Dutchy to be traded when he isn't and hasn't been the problem. How about giving him ANYONE to skate with? Honestly outside of #9, #29, #96, #6, #4, and #31, this whole team is trash.

Outside of maybe Barrie and EJ, no core player has really been THE problem. Individually our core is fine (mostly): they're mostly good players, they're our leading scorers, and they're usually our best players. The problem is they're terrible as a whole, and have been every season since they've been assembled (with the major exception being 2013-14). We're the worst team in the league, and even if we somehow pull out of that rut we're still a bottom-10 team for the third year running. Our core, and team as a whole, is mentally weak and cannot deal with adversity. I don't think our guys have much, if any, chemistry or cohesion, it's usually just 5 individuals wearing the same sweater on the ice (a problem dating back to Sacco). Our scoring differential in the first period is something ridiculous like -22, and despite the continued talk of starting the game on time... we don't (a problem dating back to Sacco). Then there's the constant problems with intensity, execution, and mastery of the basics of hockey. Again, problems dating back to Sacco.

If we're okay with all of that and holding out hope that these guys magically flip a switch and start playing with a consistency they've never shown... great, then our core is fine. If not then we need to establish a new direction and tear it down, all the way down, and start over.

 

[Alex Jones]

Trust me, I am FAR from the only person who thinks there may be better options than Landeskog as captain. I think public demeanour plays a large part of that.

If he were Joe Sakic, who's performances consistently meant he was walking the walk, fine. But he's not, he's Gabe Landeskog, a players who's goals, assists, shots have reduced year on year for the past 3 years.

Mix it up. Move the additional responsability so that he can focus on his own game.

I'd actually love to see Duchene given a shot at the captaincy.

You realise when a team is rock bottom, remaining and doing things the same, yet hoping for a different outcome is a recipe for disaster?

Go check out peoples comments about Landeskog on Avs Facebook. You don't have to belittle someone's opinion, just because it differs to yours RL. I want to see some fire, not a comment that a loss is a loss, then saying they are embarrassed.

I know we don't see what may happen behind closed doors. All I'm asking for is passion. I honestly think the moment this team starts playing angry (not fighting or anything like that), but with a chip on their shoulders, we'll be much better for it.

The whole "leadership" thing is incredibly overblown. Honestly, who the **** cares who the captain is.

Having "leadership" is overrated, it's about talent. It's not like guys in the locker room are sitting around looking up to Landeskog because he's the captain. It's not like people are following his lead and doing what he says all day long. Being the captain is honestly a minor part of what Landeskog does on a day to day basis.

These guys are all professionals. The difference between winning and losing has basically nothing to do with how good Landeskog is at giving speeches, or encouraging teammates, or whatever else it is that you think he does.

This team has two of the more respected leaders in the NHL in Iginla and Beauchamin and they still suck. It's not like everybody is suddenly going to change everything the do because they switched who leads team huddles and wears a certain letter on the ice.

 

[Avs44]

Trust me, I am FAR from the only person who thinks there may be better options than Landeskog as captain. I think public demeanour plays a large part of that.

If he were Joe Sakic, who's performances consistently meant he was walking the walk, fine. But he's not, he's Gabe Landeskog, a players who's goals, assists, shots have reduced year on year for the past 3 years.

Mix it up. Move the additional responsability so that he can focus on his own game.

I'd actually love to see Duchene given a shot at the captaincy.

You realise when a team is rock bottom, remaining and doing things the same, yet hoping for a different outcome is a recipe for disaster?

Go check out peoples comments about Landeskog on Avs Facebook. You don't have to belittle someone's opinion, just because it differs to yours RL. I want to see some fire, not a comment that a loss is a loss, then saying they are embarrassed.

I know we don't see what may happen behind closed doors. All I'm asking for is passion. I honestly think the moment this team starts playing angry (not fighting or anything like that), but with a chip on their shoulders, we'll be much better for it.

Honestly, I feel like "leadership" in general, and this is not personal, is the weakest excuse people turn to. The attitude from all fans seem to be: team is winning? Captain is a great leader! Team is losing? Their captain and leaders suck! It's repeated incessantly around these boards and elsewhere. Having the "C" on a players chest just makes it easier to target that player as a problem.


I'll also say...I think there is a very weird idea of what a leader should be. I don't think a leader should be someone who displays a lot of visible passion, who shouts when things aren't going well, who gives motivational speeches, etc. That seems like such a Hollywood cliche. Frankly, I have no clue what goes on in the locker-room, none of us do, but I value maturity, a calming attitude, etc., as more valuable than passion and anger or whatever else people want to see (not you specifically here). At the end of the day, Landeskog cannot magically motivate the team to play well, he can't make everyone play with a chip on their shoulder...and I'm not sure how he's supposed to do that? A rousing locker-room speech that deeply touches each and every player and convinces them to all give more energy for the rest of the season than they ever have before? I think the way Landy has publicly handled the media - calmly, professionally, succinctly - speaks volumes about his character and his actual ability to be a leader.


Also, didn't Roy, who actually has been in the room, specifically say Landeskog is specifically doing his part in the locker-room or something along those lines? I think EJ was mentioned at some point too, but at one point last season Roy talked about leadership, and I know Landeskog was specifically mentioned as one of the few he liked.



Also, and I mean this, I don't give a **** about what people say on Facebook. First, it's Facebook. Second, casual fans. I know that sounds demeaning, but I work with someone who I know fairly well, says he's a big Avs fan, but last week, for the first time, he realized 1) Vegas is getting a team, he had no idea, and 2) That Brian Elliott was still in the league. He thought he had disappeared after the Avs got rid of him. Didn't know anything about his time in St. Louis. I know those aren't necessarily mainstream things, so I'm not blaming him or any other casual fan for not keeping up to date with stuff around the league, but at the same time...I'm going to limit the value I place on their opinion regarding the Avs and what's going on. I think blaming the captain is just a really cheap excuse, furthered in large part by a really weird idea of what a leader should be doing. I personally think maturity is one of the first qualities I'd look for, and Landeskog screams maturity and calmness.


And incidentally, if we're talking about leading by example...no, Landeskog is not a 50 goal scorer, but he's still one of the hardest working guys on the team, so I'd say he's living up to that standard.

 

[JoemAvs]

Outside of maybe Barrie and EJ, no core player has really been THE problem. Individually our core is fine (mostly): they're mostly good players, they're our leading scorers, and they're usually our best players. The problem is they're terrible as a whole, and have been every season since they've been assembled (with the major exception being 2013-14). We're the worst team in the league, and even if we somehow pull out of that rut we're still a bottom-10 team for the third year running. Our core, and team as a whole, is mentally weak and cannot deal with adversity. I don't think our guys have much, if any, chemistry or cohesion, it's usually just 5 individuals wearing the same sweater on the ice (a problem dating back to Sacco). Our scoring differential in the first period is something ridiculous like -22, and despite the continued talk of starting the game on time... we don't (a problem dating back to Sacco). Then there's the constant problems with intensity, execution, and mastery of the basics of hockey. Again, problems dating back to Sacco.

If we're okay with all of that and holding out hope that these guys magically flip a switch and start playing with a consistency they've never shown... great, then our core is fine. If not then we need to establish a new direction and tear it down, all the way down, and start over.

So basically Duchene and Landeskog are the problem. Varly, Barrie and EJ barely played a season for him. (Barrie bounced between AHL and NHL and barely saw any meaningful time IIRC).
The truth is that the core really had only one coach together and they are still incredibly young for being a "core" if you look around the league.


The problem are the constant band-aid solutions that we have to use to mask our glaring talent issues (especially on the backend) year after year and the assets we have to spend to bring in those band aids in the first place.

We never had a base to build from and after Stastny we never had a veteran player worth a damn our young players could lean on (maybe Hejda for EJ but that would be a stretch).

What we need is to have patience and stick to a plan for once. And given our current situation that plan basically has to be a mini-rebuild or mini-retool unless someone wants to trade a young #1 D for one of our core guys and we strike gold in UFA/ later rounds in the draft this offseason.

 

[Nihiliste]

There is no move or series of moves that can fix the quagmire created by two terrible management groups in a row. Sakic, McFarland, and everyone else needs to go and be replaced with an experienced and savvy management team. That management team needs to basically blow it up and start over. But there's no point doing that unless we have quality leadership at the helm or else we'll just hit rewind on the past few years.

GM and assistant,pro and amateur scouting, player development all need a complete overhaul, otherwise you may as well forget about this franchise ever having success.

 

[detrude]

So basically Duchene and Landeskog are the problem. Varly, Barrie and EJ barely played a season for him. (Barrie bounced between AHL and NHL and barely saw any meaningful time IIRC).
The truth is that the core really had only one coach together and they are still incredibly young for being a "core" if you look around the league.

No? That's not what I said. I don't think any core player is the problem, except maybe Barrie and EJ this season. I like our core players, and individually I think they're fine, but as a whole they can't get it done.

Your timeline is also off a bit here. Duchene, Landy, EJ, and Varly are in their 6th year together, Barrie is in his 5th year, and MacKinnon is in his 4th. How is this in any way young?

What we need is to have patience and stick to a plan for once. And given our current situation that plan basically has to be a mini-rebuild or mini-retool unless someone wants to trade a young #1 D for one of our core guys and we strike gold in UFA/ later rounds in the draft this offseason.

I don't agree here. We tried a re-tool in 2013 and it's failed pretty spectacularly. We tried trading a core player for a d-man who could be a #1 and people ***** almost non stop about it and call it a bad move. We've tried patience with the core. We've tried to strike gold in UFA. We've added veteran leadership and depth. None of this has made the team better. Not now, not in the future. Why is it going to be different this time? At some point we need to look at what these guys have done and be real about what the potential of their whole is.

Again, I like our guys but I think the writing is on the wall for what they can be as a team. If we're fine with fighting for a wildcard spot and missing more than making, stay the course and maybe do a mini re-tool. If we want to win we need to go further than a re-tool and just start over.

 

[AnimalMother73]

There is no move or series of moves that can fix the quagmire created by two terrible management groups in a row. Sakic, McFarland, and everyone else needs to go and be replaced with an experienced and savvy management team. That management team needs to basically blow it up and start over. But there's no point doing that unless we have quality leadership at the helm or else we'll just hit rewind on the past few years.

GM and assistant,pro and amateur scouting, player development all need a complete overhaul, otherwise you may as well forget about this franchise ever having success.

Completely agreed. I leave this mess directly at the feet of the Kroenkes....apparently they are used to it given the current/historical state of the teams they own. It could be long term too.

Bad / underperforming player? - trade em, happens all the time
Too many loses? - fire the coach, 3 seasons more or less
Poorly constructed roster? - fire the GM, ineptitude usually last no more than 2 coaches, so 6 years
Doing this over and over again with no end sight? - sell the team to someone who cares, timeframe unknown/ never

 

[JoemAvs]

No? That's not what I said. I don't think any core player is the problem, except maybe Barrie and EJ this season. I like our core players, and individually I think they're fine, but as a whole they can't get it done.

Your timeline is also off a bit here. Duchene, Landy, EJ, and Varly are in their 6th year together, Barrie is in his 5th year, and MacKinnon is in his 4th. How is this in any way young?



I don't agree here. We tried a re-tool in 2013 and it's failed pretty spectacularly. We tried trading a core player for a d-man who could be a #1 and people ***** almost non stop about it and call it a bad move. We've tried patience with the core. We've tried to strike gold in UFA. We've added veteran leadership and depth. None of this has made the team better. Not now, not in the future. Why is it going to be different this time? At some point we need to look at what these guys have done and be real about what the potential of their whole is.

Again, I like our guys but I think the writing is on the wall for what they can be as a team. If we're fine with fighting for a wildcard spot and missing more than making, stay the course and maybe do a mini re-tool. If we want to win we need to go further than a re-tool and just start over.

2012/13 was a lockout year. 48 games with barely an offseason. That skews things. And all of those guys stepped in way earlier than they maybe should have. They are still young.

We really did not try a retool in 2013. We unexpectedly sucked and Roykic came in and fluked their way to a division title.

And those guys really did not do a retool. Atleast not the way I think a retool works.
They wanted to win and win now. Iggy, Beauchemin, Soda, etc.

ROR was forced onto them because they wanted to keep their dumb structure intact at all costs.

I also never really believed Zadorov to have serious #1 potential. Risto was always the more talented one in Buffalo.

I don't think you want to start over when most of your guys are 25 years and younger.

You need vets to break in the young guys. Like Stastny did for MacKinnon. Going full scorched earth is unnecessary and not all that helpful.

Varly is gone anyways and if one of Barrie or Duchene (or both if you can great value) follows him out of the door than ok.
Anything more would be detrimental IMO.

Landeskog is especially valuable with him being able to play those tough minutes.
Mac is our franchise and Rants looks great as well. Zads needs time and EJ might not get good value and could be a valuable leader/vet to help the kids along.

I would consider that a retool or minirebuild.

This team does not need 4 more top5 picks.
2 + smart management should be plenty.

EDIT:
Atleast the Rams are getting blown out as well. Kroenkes teambuilding philosophy for the win!

 

[AslanRH]

[snip]
I also never really believed Zadorov to have serious #1 potential. Risto was always the more talented one in Buffalo.

I don't think you want to start over when most of your guys are 25 years and younger.

You need vets to break in the young guys. Like Stastny did for MacKinnon. Going full scorched earth is unnecessary and not all that helpful.

Varly is gone anyways and if one of Barrie or Duchene (or both if you can great value) follows him out of the door than ok.
Anything more would be detrimental IMO.

Landeskog is especially valuable with him being able to play those tough minutes.
Mac is our franchise and Rants looks great as well. Zads needs time and EJ might not get good value and could be a valuable leader/vet to help the kids along.

I would consider that a retool or minirebuild.

This team does not need 4 more top5 picks.
2 + smart management should be plenty.

Concur with this post.

The bolded 100% on the money IMO

 

[Yetti090]

Tell me what you all think of these trades:

To ANA: Landeskog To COL: Lindholm/Fowler

To DAL: Varly & 4th To COL: Niemi & 3rd

To TAMPA: 2019 1st, 3rd & 2020 3rd & 4th To COL: Drouin

To CBJ: Beauchemin, 2018 2nd , 2020 5th To COL: Bjokstrand or Atkinson

To PHI: Barrie & 2019 3rd To COL: Sanheim & Morin

Look to sign Shattenkirk in the offseason


*Keeping in mind maybe not doing all of these deals in one year. Just some thoughts on possible moves.

 

[Ceremony]

Tell me what you all think of these trades:

To ANA: Landeskog To COL: Lindholm/Fowler

To DAL: Varly & 4th To COL: Niemi & 3rd

To TAMPA: 2019 1st, 3rd & 2020 3rd & 4th To COL: Drouin

To CBJ: Beauchemin, 2018 2nd , 2020 5th To COL: Bjokstrand or Atkinson

To PHI: Barrie & 2019 3rd To COL: Sanheim & Morin

Look to sign Shattenkirk in the offseason


*Keeping in mind maybe not doing all of these deals in one year. Just some thoughts on possible moves.

First one is redundant, the second one moreso, Drouin isn't going to be traded for one first rounder and junk, Both of those Blue Jackets are worth more than a 2nd round pick, 5th, no idea.

 

[JoemAvs]

Tell me what you all think of these trades:

To ANA: Landeskog To COL: Lindholm/Fowler

To DAL: Varly & 4th To COL: Niemi & 3rd

To TAMPA: 2019 1st, 3rd & 2020 3rd & 4th To COL: Drouin

To CBJ: Beauchemin, 2018 2nd , 2020 5th To COL: Bjokstrand or Atkinson

To PHI: Barrie & 2019 3rd To COL: Sanheim & Morin

Look to sign Shattenkirk in the offseason


*Keeping in mind maybe not doing all of these deals in one year. Just some thoughts on possible moves.

1. Lindholm yes, Fowler no (UFA after next season and not as good as Lindholm

2. Why??? Varly should be worth way more than that. If not just let Vegas have him in the expansion draft. Atleast we wouldn't be stuck with Niemi. If Varly can't even get you a 2nd + expiring goalie, you might as well keep him.

3. TBL would never in a million years do that. And depending on what we do, we probably shouldn't either. Not trading a 1st 3 years out the way we have been looking so far this season. But again does not matter because it is terrible value for Tampa Bay..

4. Yes but CBJ wouldn't do it. Also not a fan of trading 2018 picks (or picks in general really...)

5. Philly does not do that. They have Ghost already and Provorov is no slouch offensively either. As the Avs you think about it.

6. There is no way Shattenkirk signs with us.

 

[Yetti090]

First one is redundant, the second one moreso, Drouin isn't going to be traded for one first rounder and junk, Both of those Blue Jackets are worth more than a 2nd round pick, 5th, no idea.

How is Landy for an actual top pairing D man redundant? The second trade, my thought, is to get a cheaper goalie that we wouldn't protect in the expansion draft and swap for a higher pick

 

[tigervixxxen]

Landy for Lindholm was a good idea. The rest, teams won't do it for futures and it's not junior hockey, teams don't trade for picks 4 years out.

 

[Ceremony]

How is Landy for an actual top pairing D man redundant? The second trade, my thought, is to get a cheaper goalie that we wouldn't protect in the expansion draft and swap for a higher pick

The left wing depth chart looks a bit worthless without Landeskog. I also don't think we can afford to sacrifice (good) forwards for the defence, currently.

I don't have as much faith in Pickard to be a starter right now as the rest of this board. And swapping around 3rd/4th round picks is pointless.

I did miss the Shattenkirk suggestion though, all over that please.

 

[InjuredChoker]

True, but he has also been playing with AHL defenders which doesn't help him much

that isn't really anything new. he's played with that caliber players for almost his whole careet; except until now, he has been good, even when playing for beyond awful coach.

 

[Foppberg]

Tell me what you all think of these trades:

To ANA: Landeskog To COL: Lindholm/Fowler

To DAL: Varly & 4th To COL: Niemi & 3rd

To TAMPA: 2019 1st, 3rd & 2020 3rd & 4th To COL: Drouin

To CBJ: Beauchemin, 2018 2nd , 2020 5th To COL: Bjokstrand or Atkinson

To PHI: Barrie & 2019 3rd To COL: Sanheim & Morin

Look to sign Shattenkirk in the offseason


*Keeping in mind maybe not doing all of these deals in one year. Just some thoughts on possible moves.

Lindholm? Yes. Love Landy but getting a guy like Lindholm is hard to do.

Hell no. Why would we give up the much better goalie for 3rd rounder?

I doubt Tampa would do that, and I'm not sure if I'd wanna give up a 1st that far in the future. Who knows how good/bad we'll be.

Columbus would never touch that deal in a million years. Would be a home run for us.

I'd do the Barrie one, though I don't knoww if they would. They're already loaded with young defenders and have a similar (and better) one in Ghost.

 

[tigervixxxen]

Lindholm? Yes. Love Landy but getting a guy like Lindholm is hard to do.

Hell no. Why would we give up the much better goalie for 3rd rounder?

I doubt Tampa would do that, and I'm not sure if I'd wanna give up a 1st that far in the future. Who knows how good/bad we'll be.

Columbus would never touch that deal in a million years. Would be a home run for us.

I'd do the Barrie one, though I don't knoww if they would. They're already loaded with young defenders and have a similar (and better) one in Ghost.

It's going from a 4th to a 3rd and still having to pay Niemi on that Varly trade. I'd rather lose him in expansion than that.

 

[tigervixxxen]

Honestly, I feel like "leadership" in general, and this is not personal, is the weakest excuse people turn to. The attitude from all fans seem to be: team is winning? Captain is a great leader! Team is losing? Their captain and leaders suck! It's repeated incessantly around these boards and elsewhere. Having the "C" on a players chest just makes it easier to target that player as a problem.


I'll also say...I think there is a very weird idea of what a leader should be. I don't think a leader should be someone who displays a lot of visible passion, who shouts when things aren't going well, who gives motivational speeches, etc. That seems like such a Hollywood cliche. Frankly, I have no clue what goes on in the locker-room, none of us do, but I value maturity, a calming attitude, etc., as more valuable than passion and anger or whatever else people want to see (not you specifically here). At the end of the day, Landeskog cannot magically motivate the team to play well, he can't make everyone play with a chip on their shoulder...and I'm not sure how he's supposed to do that? A rousing locker-room speech that deeply touches each and every player and convinces them to all give more energy for the rest of the season than they ever have before? I think the way Landy has publicly handled the media - calmly, professionally, succinctly - speaks volumes about his character and his actual ability to be a leader.

to get back to the leadership thing, I agree it's something that outsiders can't determine. We aren't in the room and we also aren't at practice for the most part or in the gym or when they are training or any other time off ice. Leaders can be quiet, lead by example, inspiring, motivators, speech givers, yellers, etc. I agree it gets overblown because of the symbols that are given to them that make us focus on them as leaders. There's good leaders on all the bad teams now, proven leaders apparently it's not their fault that their teams are bad, unproven leaders aren't doing enough.

In general I actually believe in the made up intangible things that people call crap such as leadership, heart, character, passion, toughness and grit. But the thing is it's not something a team can start with, they can't get it at the foundation level, they can't go out and buy some guy to bring those things. At the end of the day it's a collection of humans working together and the best teams are better than the sum of their parts because of these voodoo things. These are things that the Avs can't get before building a hockey team the proper way with talent, skill and work ethic. They can bring in players who have the potential to add those things in their character traits but they have to add to the actual hockey foundation first and foremost. By the same token, players who are failing at the fundamentals should not be judged on the intangible aspects because they aren't able to bring them amidst the chaos.

There are so many benefits this team is lacking by not building the team from the ground up together and it's not just in contract value and overall talent. The media says this team won't play for eachother, nobody cares, there's no passion, etc. well it's no wonder when the team is half new each year and they have not developed any players who can all come up together having played on the same team before. That's what missing in the chemistry and team aspect. And the idea is to get rid of one or more of those players who have been around for a while, like bringing in new bodies are going to turn the passion and fight for eachother up? I'm for it if the end result is building that foundation the right way but just the idea of reshuffling the deck and hoping a real team emerges from it is pretty far fetched.